TTC 10 plus months, Part 7

[lisacn]

A friendly, supportive thread for those of us who are taking a bloody long little longer time than average to conceive.

gin I forgot to say, I don't think the Dr did think we'd get there naturally. I think he meant that there is always a tiny chance so long as there are some sperm. But we would be waiting years for that chance, and then I'd be older and ivf would have less chance of working so we're better to get on with it. When I said that we'd been trying 2 years and had accepted we needed IVF, he nodded and said something like "yes, it could happen but you'll be trying and waiting for that small chance. And then 6 years down the line you'll still be waiting and want IVF so you might as well go for that now".

Morning everyone. Good luck with stimms sar and hello to mrsd and gin.

So if I'd posted first thing is have said AF 2 days late, still no spotting and another BFN. I won't lie, I began to think I might be pregnant and my cheap tests were duds. I started envisaging telling some people and the sort of "well we tried for nearly 2 years and were close to IVF, we're so lucky". Fool. Just before I left for work I'd had a tiny bit of spotting which is now about 75% full on AF. . I feel really rather fragile today, this was the first time being late has happened in 25 cycles. When I told Mr Nelly last night he said "well that's not unusual is it?" I asked him to confirm what he meant so he said being late. I rather snappishly said No. It Never Happens. At which he sort of shrugged, and very nearly had a broken nose. I've just emailed him to confirm failure no 25 and he's said "well at least you get to have wine tonight".

IL's are staying tonight, just what I so don't need. I've also just had to ask him to make sure he empties the bathroom bin before they arrive, which has empty conception vits bottles plus 2 broken used Preg tests in it. Oh joy.

Gah. I feel tearful in the office. I better go and earn my IVF fee . Will cheer up later, you all understand the cycle by now I'm sure!

Hello All

Had a bad experience this morning at the scan. I have been stimming for 7 days. But the ovaries are not doing anything and only 2 tiny follicles were seen. In addition to this, there is far more toxic fluid than ever and possibly new hydrosaplinges to cause problems.

The Dr said they want to try me with very high doses of stimming drug over the weekend to see if that helps. I will be scanned again on Monday to see if there has been any improvement. But the poor ovarian response could be due to the hydrosalpinges that are causing the ovaries not to respond properly.

I asked how all of the above can happen when my blood tests showed good results and baseline scan in January had 9 follicles - he said that I may have had sudden ovarian decline.

Frightened and shocked doesn't even begin to describe how I feel.

If the increased stimming drugs don't work the cycle will be abandened (hopefully NHS funding can be saved). I then may have to have my tubes removed.

Even if they do proceed with egg collection this cycle (which is unlikely) the toxic fluid may prevent implantation.

I always new I was up against it with the tubal issues - but now it seems my ovaries are shutting down.

I haven't gone in to work - DH came home.

Sorry for such a self indulgent post. I don't even know anyone else like me who can offer hope. I don't see how I will ever become a mum. Sorry to be so down.

nelly you're allowed to feel like this today, massive for you. It's crap isn't it? And it doesn't get easier. And it's so much worse when your body teases you. Big boos to the PIL visiting too. We had some friends over last night and I had to remember to do a sweep before they arrived to get rid of anything ttc related. It's amazing how much stuff there is, I found pregnancy vits and tests in the bathroom. And then we had a file on the bookcase labelled Fertility test results. And another big bumph of information from the clinic. I also have to remember to clear my computer and ipad history before I let anyone use them.

Nelly - sorry about AF - this is such a cruel game. Big hugs x

Thanks Buzzy for setting up this thread. Let?s hope it brings good luck for many of us. sorry about your horrible migraine. I hope it has gone now.

nelly - oh i have just seen your updated post and I am so sorry. It is better just to get af as normal rather than be led up the garden path like that. We have all run those conversations through our head at how we are going to tell people we are expecting. And then when AF turns up the blow is so terribly hard. Then the men come out with a silly comment and make things worse. sorry about the ILs ? that just sucks. I have spent many a time going around the house and hiding conception tablets, ovulation sticks, fertility books and hiding gonal f injections underneath the carrots and spuds in the fridge. The whole thing is just one big nightmare. Massive hug to you.

sarlat - you have a good manager. That?s so good you have some understanding from them as that really helps.

Go kitty! - am so pleased about your 8wk scan. Not long until the 12 week scan and you can tell all your friends you are pregnant (if you haven?t already) after just one drunken shag

lady - glad you had a good time in Scotland and I?m pleased you are feeling refreshed with a positive follow up with your ivf clinic.

artemis - i am sorry your positivity has worn off . i totally agree with you about sending you off to ivf without fully investigating. This is the drum i keep banging on about. Things don?t seem to get covered in a systematic way. To me it makes sense that we all get our level 1s checked, hsg etc and if this is all fruitless , we should have Laps. It seems that many women find out they have endo or fibroids without having any symptoms. This would be much better to cover all this off before going down the ivf route. Also MrJ oy is like MrA and isn?t at a point to think about another life as well. He keeps saying it will work to me. i like his positivity but sometimes i am just screaming inside ?what happens if it doesn?t!?. I want to discuss our worst case scenario options. I?m not sure if that is negativity or being realistic.

wine - well done for having a plan in place. how ever I don?t think you?ll ever get to point 4 or 5 . Your broid has got to be preventing pregnancy whatever the docs say. Embies like a nice soft cushy bed to lie in. If you have some monster in there that is causing you pain, that is going to put off any embie for nestling down. You really will get there.

sarlat - all the best for your scan today. You doing brilliantly!

gin - always desperate to shag in shag week even though i know it?s pointless. Although i guess because i have no reason, it may not be pointless. I hope one day i can just let go. The last 2 years ovulation has dominated my life.

mrsd - interesting about your painless AFs. Mine have also been painless this year ever since i started my new diet. It can only be a good thing. Good luck with your bloods today. there is a lot of hanging around isn?t there. I plan to start ivf in Sep but i am quite prepared for things to go tits up between my first ivf appointment and then.

Waves to everyone else. Roll on the weekend!

Thanks Joycep - it's not gone well - see above post. X

Oh sarlat massive hugs for you. I don't even know what half of that means, it certainly sounds scary. Huge deep calming breaths. It's not the end yet though. Still avenues to try by the sounds of it. The uncertainty is horrid though isn't it .

Thanks for the flowers mrsden and the is waiting! I've just bought cakes too . And I feel bad for dissing Mr Nelly as he did reply to my email by reminding me he luffed me .

Ok silver linings.

1 I had no spotting so that's a good thing, right?
2 I go on holiday in 2 weeks so can get drunk. A lot. Even though I'll be in my next 2ww by then.

Errr. And I wont be massively pregnant for my wedding.

And we're nearing the cut off at which I can safely book a flight for my honeymoon.

Sarlat - pm'ing you

Gin re: King's I think it's easier if you are on a medicated cycle. They can adjust the drugs to make you ovulate at a convenient time! But on an unmedicated cycle, you are at the whim of your ovaries! I don't know what they do if you end up ovulating at the weekend because I switched to another clinic. I figured it was an added stress I didn't need. I've found a clinic that will do it whenever it needs doing. It is more expensive but the sums involved are not huge. It is £1500 for 3 cycles and that includes a monitoring scan each cycle (it was a buy 3 for the price of 2 deal). Kings was £300something per cycle without the scans.

Nelly 16dpo seems like a bit of a magic number. I think that is when fertility clinics usually get you to test after IVF. I have everything crossed for you.

Gah. Sorry Nelly. I accidentally posted before I read the second page of this thread. Sorry to hear AF got you. :( I'm glad you are managing to see a silver linig.

Sarlat I'm sorry that you had bad news at the scan. Maybe it is just a poor response to the drugs? Sudden decline sounds unlikely in such a short space of time.

I had my pre-IUI#2 scan this morning. I have one 19mm follie and my lining is looking good. So I just need to keep weeing on expensive sticks and as soon as I detect my surge, we can book in for basting. I hope Mr euro's boys are rather more plentiful than they were last time!

Well I'm kind of seeing the silver linings through very gritted teeth .

Glad I'm not the only one with TTC detritus! Mr Nelly thinks he left his SA sample kit lying out when my mum was house-sitting. It's not that I don't want them to know we are TTC as such. It's just that they'll then be so insensitive and get excited, like I'd already handed them their grandchild. Still at least they both have one with another on the way to each set!

I have just done a graph of my cycle length, ov day and LP. I'm really very sad aren't I? Don't answer that! anyway it's not that interesting, LP pretty consistent, with average cycle length 27 days but it's up or down each month. The last 4 have been 25, 26, 27, 28. Menopause, anyone???

I have some actual real work to do but my stomach hurts and I'm fed up of it. Plus if I don't get it done I'll have to work late, thus avoiding ILs

Oh sarlet sorry to hear that. I send hugs. There are still lots of paths for you to tread yet. See what happens with a change in the drugs. It seems difficult to believe that anything untoward has happened to your ovaries in such a short time and it makes me that such words are thrown around. More realistically, they haven't responded to the particular protocol you're on. I always say its easy to look at other people and see things far more favourably than when you're in the position yourself. I see that you have a healthy womb and poorly tubes that are being a pain and a treatment plan that hasn't been tailored to suit your needs quite rightly. There is a lot of hope in there I promise.

And I'm sorry nelly I had everything crossed for you. But the silver linings are good, maybe your baby is insistent on being born in wedlock! Loves to you.

I am now off work til September. Gosh.

Thank you for the new thread Buzzy I like the number 7 too, so here's to it being a lucky one!
Glad that your migraine has finally gone. There is nothing like a persistent migraine to make you feel totally drained.

sarlat I am sorry that you got such unexpected and shocking news. I don't understand so won't try and comment on it except to say that the doctors have to prepare you for the worst case scenario. I am thinking of you and keeping my FX that it will all work out.

kitty I'm glad that your scan showed that all was well.

ladygee I can't believe that you had good weather in Scotland whilst we were suffering torrential rain down here.

Artemis Pushy or pay - great! It really shouldn't be like that.
I thought an HSG was a matter of course. I can't believe that you are being fobbed off like that. Time to get pushy

wine I like your action plan. It is always comforting to have a plan of action, it is the floundering about that I can't handle. Can't wait to have my appointment, a week today, so I can have a plan too!

nelly I'm so sorry that your AF arrived like that. I have lost count of the number of times my cycle had behaved oddly and I have got my hopes up only to be dashed. It is monumentally crap. Sorry also that you have to contend with that and a visit form the ILS. Bad timing indeed.

gin I agree about the mad obsession with SWI at ovulation time even when you know it is pointless. Obviously there is no SWI for us this cycle but I still got EWCM and got those familiar feelings of must SWI and then got cross because we couldn't and it was a wasted egg!

mrsd sorry that AF has made an appearance at your end too. Good luck with the blood test.

Joycep "it will happen" was always my DH's stock answer too, to my irritation. However since finding the fibroid he has changed this to he "doesn't know" which totally shocked me. I felt really worried because all of a sudden he isn't optimistic either. He can't win!

euro I'm glad that all is looking good for you this cycle.

I am pretty much back to normal. Believe it or not the only bothersome thing is that I have had an allergic reaction to my plaster and have an irritated red welt Also have gone from the extreme of constipation to the other extreme. Note to self, in future do not take the full dose of 2 laxatives, in fact don't even take half a dose. Just quickly licking one tablet will evidently suffice!

Hello to everyone I've missed. Happy weekends.

Just wanted to pop in to say nellie so sorry for af's arrival. I really did have high hopes for you. Big hugs, lots of wine and lots of relaxing this weekend (if you can with the ILs there). It genuinely doesn't get any easier does it?

And starlet so sorry about your scan. Follies can be slow to grow so don't give up hope yet. If this cycle doesn't work, natural cycle is always a possibility - they don't medicate or do so mildly and work with what you have and it's meant to be particularly good for poor responders. Big hugs and hope you are doing something nice this weekend to keep your mind off it.

euro your private clinic sounds pretty reasonable! Well compared to mine. Would you be able to pm me the name of the clinic. Ta.

Happy weekend everyone else!

Ps meant to say in my first post of the day kitty I was so thrilled to hear that mini kitty is doing well. The scan sounds like it was a really good idea and hope you can now relax a little and enjoy it as much as you can. Do lurk and bring us all some much needed good luck

nelly sorry AF has arrived, really thought this was your month :( I record everything, when AF starts/finishes, ewcm, pains, spots on face, temp, cbfm peaks, emotions etc etc, we could compare charts

mrsd again sorry the witch has made an unwelcome appearance nasty selfish cow that she is you can have your bloods taken from days 1-5, I'm having mine done next week, I always wear my NHS ID badge so I can try and queue jump

sarlet (((SUPER BIG HUGS))) I really am sorry, it must have been a bit of a shock but remember even the experts get it wrong, I don't think scaremongering helps at all. Can I ask what drug you are on. DON'T GIVE UP HOPE!!! It just means that its going to take a bit longer for you to get your precious baby.

gin love the rubbing kitty's tummy

pout I know what you mean about feeling with regards to wasted eggs, I've already worked out when Mr B has his hernia op and if it will affect our SWI.

Well i'm shattered after 2 days of work :) totally of you wine being off till September

Well I'm CD22 today so really 10dpo as possibly ovulated really early, I feel rather calm, think it could be the happy herbal pills my acupuncture people gave me. Mr B is not in the best of moods, he has the wrong size screws so he can't put the shower door up so he is dismantling the squatters camp on the balcony

waves to everyone else hope you all have something fun planned for the weekend

pout I had a patient who used to yoyo between laxatives and immodiom hope the problem cures itself soon

Oh sarlat so sorry, that sucks. More hugs.
And nelly boo on that one too.
Seems things are happening early this month. Maybe it is the relief of being offered a new job.
buzzy love the chosen name .
Waves to all.

Thanks for all the words of support!

Euro. I hope you are right about poor response to these particular drugs only. My mind is racing away and I am worried that I won't respond to anything. It's exciting to hear that you have one superb follie for next IUI - go follie go! One tip my accupuncturist gave me was to increase your intake of antioxident foods to redcuse the chance of inflamation / too much activity hindering implantation. Plus loads of vitamin C & E foods. That is what she is urging me to do now. I am scoffing strawberries, wheatgerm and brazil nuts etc. Ha ha.

Wine - thank you for your comments. I know what you mean about seeing things more favouribly for others. I can't be rational at the moment. Wishing you lots of luck with the op. Is that why you are off until Septemeber? What have you got planned?

Gin - the natural cycle sounds very good. Do you mind me asking - was expected poor egg response the reason why you had a natural cycle or due to something else? Am I right in thinking you got a fair few eggs with yours? Do you mind me asking what your FSH antral folliles count etc was?

Buzzy - I have been on menopur 225 IU for the first 7 days. This has been the only drug. This has just been increased to 375 IU with Monday being the deadline to see if it has helped. 3 days doesn't seem like very long to give the increased dose a chance to work. Prior to the stimming I was on the prostap injetion for down regging and a few days of birth control before that so that the clinic could start my treatment in line with when they had availability. I have now read about over supresion which can occur in the pre-stimming phase due to down regging and / or birth control tablets. I am clutching at anything as the cause as I am so frightened that my eggs will not respond. To be honest I really don't know that much about IVF and different protocols - that was a deliberate thing I did to help me feel postive and less clinical.

Buzzy- that is wonderful that you feel calm this cycle. Cherish the feeling as it is hard to acheive. Fingers crossed for a positive outcome.

Well I am feeling even more frightened that I did yesterday. I am panicking that my egg quality / reserve is lower than I realsied.

Has anybody else had an antral follicle count? Mine was 9 in January and described as "a fair few follicles" on day 14 just before starting this cycle of IVF.

I went to see an acupuncturist yesterday as an emergency appointment type thing. My DH already goes to her so got me in. She has started me off on a specific programme for IVF where blood flow is directed to the arteries which run to the ovaries and womb. She also gave me electro stimulation therapy (or whatever it's called) through the needles. I am seeing her again today. She was very good. She suggested that although my fsh levels were fine perhaps my AMH level isn't as high as expected and so perhaps I need a higher does of stims. This felt half reasuring and half further frightening.

Since yesterday, I have had diarrhoea which is what happens to me when I'm anxious / scared. I am not getting any ovary pain or cramping or anything which isn't a good sign. And my boobs feel as flat as a pancake with no tenderness which surely can't be a good thing. In my normal cycles, I have loads more activity than this. Surely it should be the other way around.

Sorry for the self indulgent post. I feel like I have joined this post at my crisis point. I should have joined earlier. I would hate you all to think I'm just after the take and no give.

Thanks Sarlat xx

Hi. Just a quick phone post as I'm away at a family get together.

So felt for you sarlat when I read your post and am trying to put myself in your shoes. I'm sure you must be feeling a massive range of emotions. I know this is virtually impossible but try not to panic and see the worst case. It sounds like a lot more investigating needs to happen before the consultant can make those judgements. Time and time again on here we've seen how one dr can make a statement about something that then doesn't come to fruition or is explained by another doctor in a more reassuring way. I really hope the next scan brings some more positive news. Massive hugs.

nelly and mrsd sorry it wasn't your month. It never ever gets easier and always seems particularly cruel to give out of the ordinary symptoms, as you allow that 'what if...' to slip in. Hope you are looking after yourselves.

A lovely family member said to me yesterday 'so are you going to have children?' I said my usual reply of 'hopefully soon when the time is right'. She clearly could read between the lines and said 'ah well you don't know what you've missed if you've never had it'. What a lovely nugget of inspiration- grr! Xx

sarlat maybe this will reassure you a little. I ovulate like clockwork usually - day 14 from one side, day 16 from the other. My first month on superovulation drugs (which are supposed to make you push out more than one egg) I thought I wasn't going to ovulate at all. I eventually did, around day 20. The next 2 cycles, they upped the dose and I ovulated on day 12/13. So the drug dosage was just wrong for my ovaries. I was so stressed waiting for ov the first time, thinking the drugs had broken me or made things worse! But the dose was just wrong. Hopefully it will be the same for you.

Gin I will PM you.

frannie I hope that girl get a big nasty boil on her bum I have lots of patients ask me if I have kids I usually say hopefully one day.

sarlat there is an IVF board on here maybe they can offer you some advice on all of this. They do recommend acupuncture with IVF, cupping and moxibustien also help with blood flow. I don't think you're eggs have deteriorated I just think they haven't got the dose right for you, my second round of SO has produced nothing despite the higher dose, alot of this is sadly trial and error. As for activity the body is good at tricking us, this is my dud month and I had wicked ovulation pains so don't read too much into that either. Its hard not to get to get freaked out when they give you information but I'm sure come Monday they will help organise a plan for you. I always need to know what my next option is.

teu ooh new job :) when do you start?? I'd love a new job. Whats happening early?? I wanted something from home and also something people would get be able to spell I love it when people here try and say Tauranga it really makes me

well still feeling calm, makes me a bit nervous as I know I'll hit rock bottom soon with a thud but till then i'll keep taking the happy herbal pills.

waves to everyone else

Oh starlat I'm so sorry to hear you are finding it harder today. I'm sure, as others have said, it's just a case of changing the drugs, or protocol. They say that the first round of ivf is often a fact finding cycle and that success rates are cumulative.

I didn't do natural ivf, but rather mild ivf, which is different. Mild is the same as normal ivf, but without down regging and lower doses of stims. Mild aims to produce about 4 eggs, but I made 12 (10 of which were mature enough for icsi). With natural you produce only what you normally would, so 1 egg. Success rates are obviously lower for natural, but you can do cycles one after an other, due to lack of drugs. There's more info in the Create website. However, I'm sure your current clinic will know all this and be able to modify the cycle to suit you. Big hugs. Keep munching those brazil nuts and take care of yourself. X

Hope everyone else is having nice weekends. I'm about to make us a huge, unhealthy fry up. :)