TTC: Pregnancy on Prednisolone or similar part 7

[ChoccyPud]

A positive thread for all those diagnosed with High or Very High NK Cells and looking to start TTC or already pregnant on Prednisolone and/or Intralipid treatment.

Newcomers very much welcome!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1419032-TTC-Pregnancy-on-Prednisolone-or-similar-part-6

Part 5 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1391787-TTC-Pregnancy-on-Prednisolone-or-similar-part-5

Part 4 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1366323-TTC-Pregnancy-on-Prednisolone-or-similar-part-4

Part 3 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1348773-TTC-pregnancy-on-Prednisolone-or-similar-part-3

Part 2 here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1323594-TTC-pregnancy-on-Prednisolone-or-similar-part-2

Part 1 here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1236324-TTC-pregnancy-on-Prednisolone-or-similar

Thanks ladies. Wow so much conflicting info!

So it seems coconut, cheerful, frozen, and dunnit have got pg successfully without pred before bfp or pred at all for most. abney you are most interesting as your story doesn't seem to have a successful common denominator at all. Very random.

Well tapering off pred after 7 mths. It has done sweet FA for me anyway apart from give me an extra stone in weight and other such nasties. If I ever get a bfp I will reluctantly chuck them down my throat in vain attempt to cling onto said baby. In the mean time I need to find out what is causing my miscarriages and what if anything I can do about it. I can't bring myself to transfer the frozen embryo as I have no faith in my treatment currently. I am looking into surrogacy but I wonder if with all that effort we'd rather just adopt. Tricky one. thanks ladies. Lots of interesting posts about pred from bfp because of mucked up cycles but I am sure sue and co are on those anyway.
Last full day here today. Actually scared about coming home. Seem to be managing in routine of sunbathing and "researching"!

There?s a lot of fascinating info on here today and I am going to try to work my way through it.

I have had a failure on Pred and intralipids Duggs too. The pregnancy before this one. So add me to the 'miscarried on the treatment' list. That was my second miscarriage in a row, the one a few months before was at 12 weeks and a real shock, hence the search for and eventual diagnosis, and the other two had been years previously. One before my thyroid condition was diagnosed and one around the same time.

Duggs I am glad you still have Hydroxy left to try as it seems to (on the whole) be doing something for quite a few people now. There are no real side effects, lack of appetite (which can be quite good) and a bit of low level nausea. I am feeling low level nausea most days at the moment but I am not sure if that is the Hydroxy or being in the third trimester. I think it might be something to do with the former as I am pretty sure nausea is meant to be out of the way by now. Mr S now likes people to take it for 6 weeks before conceiving (might be worth asking for him now so you can start it early?) but I only had it for two weeks before conceiving this one.

As far as I am aware Mr S is also the only one experimenting with the hydroxy at the moment. When madly researching possible causes after my last miscarriage (the one on treatment) I also came across hidden Chlamydia (so a different test to the one for normal Chlamydia) and also (as Charlie says) ureaplasma. I think the testing for this was done in Greece though. Something to look into? I mentioned it to Mr S and he didn?t think it was relevant.

Abney, thanks muchly for doing the list and it is great to have all your details on there now too. I have felt a bit like Keeper of the List recently so it?s good for others to update it! The only thing that needs changing when we update it (apart from adding as much info as you can about yourself which is fab as we can all refer to the facts in hand) is we need to add days to the people with BFPs as their gestation weeks + days are on there. So, if it is Wednesday and the list was last updated on Monday, add two days to all the BFPs.

Sorry you are having such a nightmare with the follicles and ovulation Kittens. It sounds so very frustrating and yes the age thing is a bit difficult to swallow. We are all so used to living lifestyles that are more or less the same as when we are in our early 20s (well, I might be speaking for myself here) so it always surprises me when it turns out that age is actually involved in something. That?s where we really do differ from men. I have never felt different from men (on an equality basis) until just before starting to TTC when I realise ? shit, I have a biological clock and to a certain extent they don?t. Let us know how it goes.

Sue, I am loving the list of things we can do to suppress our immune systems ? particularly the red wine, marijuana and no exercise . Mind you, that describes the whole of my 20s and a good part of my early 30s. In the two years prior to TTC and then the most recent three pregnancies I was doing extreme rather than moderate exercise. Until the first of the three and then I just was pregnant, bleeding, miscarrying, drinking heavily, pregnant, bleeding, miscarrying?. Etc etc.

Just bringing forward from Monday/Tuesday. PQ will go up to the second trimester later this week (she's on hols at the moment so hope she's having a good time!). Does the second trimester officially start at 13.4 or 13.6? Can't remember. Yes there is now a large gap in the first trimester section but this has happened before and there are ALWAYS new BFPs that remain and climb the ladder so, for those at the TTC end, please try to take heart in that and remember Duggs stats (based on active members rather than those who are AWOL) worked out in favour of the pregnancies at the moment - ie. there are more people getting pregnant and staying pregnant than not. So that means the treatment IS working overall:

Weds 24th April

The babies are arriving!
Stogan - V high NKC - cycle#2, DC#1, Baby girl born Sunday 11/03/12 7lb13.5. Our First Pred Thread Baby!
Digitalgirl - High NKC - BFP cycle#2, Baby boy (DS2) born at 39+0 on Easter Monday, 9/04/12, 8 lbs 12 Our Second Pred Thread Baby!

BFP 3rd Trimester
Coconutfeet - V High NKC, Factor II gene mutation, underactive thyroid - BFP pre-pred, started at 6 weeks 38+2 Due date: 07/05/12
Comedy - V High NKC - BFP cycle#2, DC#2 ? 36+2 C-section booked: 14/5/12
Iggi - High NKC & Hypothyroidism - BFP cycle#2, DC#2- 35+1 c-section booked for 16/5/12
BrownieGecko - High NKC, Hypothyroidism, & Glucose Intolerant. BFP Clomid cycle#3, DC#1 34+3
Freelance - V High NKC TTC#1 Hydroxychloroquine, Pred, Intralipids, 400 Cyclogest, Thyroid/hashimotos. MC 1st Pred cycle. DC#1 27+1 Next appt with Mr S, 25th May EDD 24/07/12
Cheerfulcharlie - V High NKC, MTHFR, DC#2/ (metformin, intralipids, no pred). 27+0 EDD 24/07/12

2nd Trimester
batteryhen - High NKC, factor v leiden. DC#1 BFP cycle 3. 23+5
coleyoz - V High NKC. DC#2, BFP cycle2, 23+1
FrozenNorthPole - RMC, NKC status unknown, Cyclogest, aspirin, 19+0
Mercator - V High NKC, TTC#2. 18+6
Hopefulfor2nd - High NKC - TTC#2. - 17+6
dunnit - V High NKC - , IVIG, Cyclogest and Clexane. 17+6

1st Trimester
PQ77 - V High NKC TTC #2 (BFP cycle one but mc) 13+2

TTC ? ASSISTANCE - SO/IUI/IVF
duggs1976 - High/V High NKC - TTC #1 - IVF cycle #1 ?pred, intrallipids, metformin, clexane, cylogest
Havingkittens - Upgraded from High to V High NKC TTC #1 -10 pred ? 3rd cycle SO
Snoopygirl - V High NKC TTC, pred cycle 5, Super Ov Cycle 3
Abney (44), SO 2, 6 MC No pred (2 chromosone, 4 unexplained), 1 DS Pred Cycle 1 & fragmin, 4 MC on Pred (1 fragmin),
eurochick - TTC#1 High NKC, pred cycle 4, Super Ov & IUI
Pebbles - TTC#1 High NKC, PCOS, super ov cycle 1 (post IVF - 1 chemical, 1 mc, combining IVF with Immunotherapy
Arianrhod - V High NKC, MTHFR homo, hypothyroid, TTC#2 (Pred & Hydroxychloroquine)
Suemays - V High NKC, TTC #2. Superov. (Pred & Hydroxychloroquine)

TTC
London - High NKC, April - mc on treatment.
ChoccyPud - V High NKC - TTC#1 (Pred & Hydroxychloroquine). April - mc on treatment.
Willitbe - RMC, NKC not tested, TTC #4 cycle 2 (after m/c 12) Fertility consultant
prescribed pred.
GreenOlives - High NKC, TTC#2, Pred Cycle 2
picolina - V High NKC MC on treatment (taking a break on holiday)
Holldoll - High NKC - Pred, Cyclogest & aspirin
Lemonsherbet - TTC#1 v high/high NK, Mthfr, thyroid issues, pred 1st trim & Intralipids 2nd on bfp
buster76 -V High NKC, Factor V Leiden.
BellyD - V High NKC, MTHFR homo, TTC#1 cycle 2, hydroxychloroquine

Current status?
Cherrycheeks - V high NKC, TTC#2
ScooterChaser - V High NKC - TTC#2 (Pred & Hydroxychloroquine)
Breezyweezy - V High NKC - TTC#1
AandRmum - High NKC
Cornflakes30 - V High NKC, underactive thyroid
Brownstag - V High NKC, 3 yo DS is a Pred Baby! TTC #2
Zoeella V.high NKC, Factor V Leiden. abandoned IVF, pos PCOS

Wow, lots of info since I last posted. Excellent info sue, just out of interest also resveratrol is the antioxidant compound in red wine, red grapes and other fruit that is the beneficial part, and is recommended by a number of REs in the States. One of my many supplements! Bear in mind also that from sue's list, green tea is also high in antioxidants, so I suspect anything high in antioxidants will have the same effect.

duggs add me to your list of MCs while on pred.

kittens I so know what you mean about being sick of the "it's your age" comments. The hard one for me to swallow is the complete turn-around of Mr S's attitude towards my getting successfully pregnant in just 3 months. Saw him in January and he was all "your age really isn't an issue, come back and see me when you're pregnant", then in April it was "you're very unlikely to get pregnant naturally now". free you're right about still living the life of our 20s or 30s ... physically I feel no different at all, it's very difficult to accept that maybe my reproductive system IS different!

Interesting the talk on the hidden C/ureaplasma infections. It's something I've often wondered about getting tested, and I'm still thinking it's worth doing. If only it weren't such a schlep to get it done! If anyone's interested, section 4.2 of Agate's excellent Immunology FAQ explains it all and I believe gives contact details: www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242395.0

Morning everyone. I have been mentalling about what I did wrong this time. So disappointed that the treatment did not work. I am starting to wonder if it is something to do with my diet. I have been a vegetarian pretty much all my life until the last miscarriage when I started to eat fish. I am hetero MTFHR and after interrogating dr google for many hours over the past few days I wonder if I am b12 deficient. I take supplements of course. Just wondering, are there any other veggies out there? Have any of you looked into this?

Am a fish-eating veggie London, if there can be such a thing. I haven't eaten meat or poultry for 12 years. Am pretty sure this won't make any difference as, usually, I have a reasonably healthy diet. Unless of course a healthy diet means we are boosting our immune system and therefore boosting NK cells. Although pre-pregnancies I was following quite a high protein (but also high fruit veg diet) in the last year or so I've had a lot more bread and pasta and less fish and eggs. Only because the diet went out the window.

One thing I did different this pregnancy (as well as having the added Hydroxy), that Mr S didn't tell me to do but was quite happy with me doing, was add Selenium into the mix. On top of the Pregnacare/Omega 3, Vit D I take an extra 200ug Selenium a day. I've read a lot about Selenium being helpful in supporting pregnancy and miscarriage prevention and also for people who have autoimmune thyroid conditions (which I have).

Incidentally London my NKC levels were apparently really high - in the highest 5% Mr S sees in the clinic. I am not sure whether he had much hope for me at first as he did stress how high these were at 3.79. I know we had a couple of other people with very high levels here too. Duggs do you still have that list we created with everyone's NK cells levels on it? Might be worth updating/adding the newer members of the family to see if that can shed any light on anything?

Morning london .. I am veggie, and I take B12 supplements (methylcobalamin to be precise, because of my MTHFR, rather than 'standard' B12). This was because during my investigations into MTHFR it's recommended if you're taking higher dose folic acid (or l-methylfolate in my case), it can mask a vitamin B12 deficiency, so B12 is recommended to be taken at the same time. It's a water-soluble vitamin so you cannot take too much of it.

PS London I don't think you did anything wrong yourself so please don't blame yourself for anything. There might be other things you can add - like Selenium above - but there's nothing you did wrong. Thinking about it - drug addicts, alcoholics, severe salad-dodgers, junk food fanatics, fruitarians... all have children. You've got to go to extremes to cause a miscarriage yourself. This is something that is hopefully treatable by medication and expertise!

Ladies, can I ask those of you who have had, or going to have, a hysteroscopy, who was it advised you to have it done and why? I just read this:

I would suggest that the following are indicators that a hysteroscopy might be a good idea:

having thin/patchy linings on ultrasound scan and/or having skimpy, mainly brown periods rather than normal, profuse red blood, or brown bleeding either side of your period. Brown blood is oxidised (old) which means it has taken extra time to make its way down which could mean that its been held up by scar tissue.

This is exactly what I'm getting ... 3 (or in the case of this month, 4) days of brown gunk, one to one-and-a-half days of red bleeding, then 2 or 3 days more brown. I don't know if that means I need a hysteroscopy, but I don't know who I should see to ask whether it's necessary?

I have the list on PC at home fly home tomorrow will hunt it out x

Thanks Free and Ari for your comments. I am seriously thinking of eating meat to see if it makes a difference. I mean if I can take the steroids I can do meat!!

The thing that started me thinking of it was my acupuncturist. I went to her because my periods had got a lot lighter after the last mc. Actually a bit like you are describing Ari, I am really interested in what you say.

Anyway, she gently suggested including more protein and iron in my diet. She was very sympathetic to the veggie cause as an ex veggie herself. I asked her why she started eating meat again and she said it was because she saw so many veggies in her line of work who were struggling with fertility issues and it made her reevaluate her own lifestyle.

It may be nothing but I am seriously thinking about giving it a shot. I actually have no idea how to cook meat. When I first cooked fish I managed to give me and dh food poisoning!!! Healthy.

Sorry I am aware how crazy I sound.

Hmm Funny you mention that london, at my last appt with my acupuncturist last week she also mentioned I should eat more protein. I was thinking more along the lines of eggs, cheese, and in fact have bought myself a huge tub of whey protein that you mix with milk to make a protein shake. No way I could eat meat again, I feel nauseous just at the thought. But exactly as you say, my AFs only went this way after my last MC in December. Mr S of course attributes this to my age, and says it's coincidence that it only happened right after the MC, but that just doesn't feel right for me.

Hmm Perhaps there's something in this extra protein thing then. I wonder how much is enough, though?

And you definitely don't sound crazy london, far from it!

Apparently 46 to 48g of protein a day, it seems: www.fitsugar.com/How-Much-Protein-Should-I-Eat-165578

(yes, I know, I should be working ... )

I don't think you need to eat meat at all. Nothing wrong with eating lean meat if that's what you want to do but don't let your acupuncture lady influence you! I know plenty of people who eat meat who are still having fertility problems. Personally I think the way it's farmed and processed these days it's generally not brilliant for you. If I ever ate meat again it would be about once a week and only organic and crap-free.

When I was following a higher protein diet I generally followed this plan: cottage cheese (wonderful for protein!), apple and almonds for breakfast or sometimes fruit and greek yoghurt, peanut butter and an apple for snack, eggs and veg and toasted seeds for lunch (I mix these all together in a frying pan - it's a popular dish in Spain like scrambled eggs but much tastier), another snack of nuts and yoghurt (and/or a protein bar or shake too) and fish and lots of veg/salad for dinner. I was super lean and fit! And on the weekends/days out ate what the hell I liked.

Ha you are a mind reader. I bought whey powder yesterday and had my first drink this morning. God it was vile. I will try anything, seriously, I just want to be stronger after this mc. Last time, I was dizzy and white as a sheet for about six weeks!

What flavour, and from where, london? I have the Optimum Gold Standard 100% whey isolate, strawberry flavour. I thought it was quite nice, bit like a strawberry milkshake :)

Thanks free, our messages crossed. I am already eating quite a bit of veggie protein, but I think I need to be a bit more conscientious about it!

I bought Solgar Whey to Go vanilla flavour. I think the strawberry sounds much nicer. I might mix it with some fruit to disguise the taste.

My favourite high protein snack is sliced apple with peanut butter (Whole Earth organic - takes a few days getting used to if you are more used to say Sun Pat but once you get used to it you will never go back!). That and Bounce protein balls. You had them? They are lovely. And of course handfuls of nuts and seeds. I think as non-meat eaters you are both probably well set already with your protein snacks too and pretty healthy.

TBH I am always rather sceptical of advice from acupuncturists etc (that veers off their direct skill). Of course they have a well-researched opinion a lot of the time but having tried bloody everything to sort out my thyroid problem and not one natural therapy being able to help I feel you just need to take what people say with a pinch of salt. Moderation for everything I guess - except exercise according to Sue's research :)

Oooh I love Whole Earth peanut butter. I didn't think of that being a source of protein. Never heard of Bounce protein balls, I shall investigate, thanks free!

I know what you're saying free about taking advice, my acupuncturist is also training to be a homeopathic practitioner, but a lot of what she says and recommends actually does make sense, and she never presses it, just explains why she thinks a particular thing is a good idea.

How am I supposed to lose the weight/bloat without moderate exercise at least to start with? It's not a good idea to go straight from nothing to 1.5 hrs hard cardio surely?! Talk about rock and hard place! Maybe I'll just have to take 6 months off to lose the weight and ban sex so my body isn't used to DH's sperm so we can then surprise it and catch a good one. The furthest I've got was after a long break and little shaggage and looking briefly at all the HLA etc info....

I eat well, mostly, tho am treating myself to chocolate (obv!) currently. Lots of Graze boxes inc dried fruit, seeds, nuts etc. So much to consider and no definite answers. Pff!

Ooh and a big fat yes to whole earth PB. love it!

Hi All,

sorry not got involved in your stats research.
I am currently a bag of nerves as I have found a large lump (golf ball size but flattish) in left breast and have had to force myself to go to the doctors this afternoon.
I don't know whether ari remembers but I mentioned that in March I started having stabbing pains just on that side only. It went away almost until next month and was in france and had serious stabbing pains which felt like Mastitis. Couldn't touch area without it feeling like pins stabbing in me. It wore off again until this last week seems to be a constant ache and boob is a bit swollen and found this lump. I didn't feel lump when I had the bad stabbing pains as I;m sure I was poking around alot then. So it seems to have come up quickly. I am just hoping (and praying) that it's some kind of cyst, absess or something.
I am really worried about it and will have to ask dr if I need to stop taking pred. as if it is something nasty I don't want immune system surpressed! I know women get cyclical breast pain but there's swelling and stuff so don't know what to think.

So I am not going to start on Hydroxy at moment. I am just wondering if i have reacted badly to letrozole or something as this started when started doing SO in March. It being a breast cancer drug all a bit weird.

london sorry about your mc

It's taken me about an hour to read the thread, it's amazing all the info on here.

Snoopy that is indeed really worrying but glad you are going to the docs asap to have a look at it. Chances are it is nothing sinister (most lumps turn out to be ok) but it is good to get it checked as soon as possible. Do please let us know how it goes.

Choccy I wouldn't worry about the bit about moderate exercise. Being a healthy weight it really important too. And exercise makes you feel good. When I was super dooper fit, pre-pregnancies/miscarriages of 2011, I was actually writing a lot of fitness ebooks and website material for several personal trainers and getting plenty of training and advice for free. I found the best thing to do was do a lot of weights as that helps you create nice lean and toned muscles and keeps the metabolism fired up. I personally am not a big fan of long swathes of cardio - just ten mins to warm up is fine. Weights give you a great cardiovascular workout anyway.

Also when TTC I think being moderately fit and healthy is fine. Being too thin doesn't work well either.

london so sorry to hear your news. It sounds like a lot of research is going on and I hope some form of answer may be found.

Snoopy so sorry to read you've found a lump. I do know what you are going through as I found one myself last year. Good you are going to see your GP so quickly - I pretended mine wasn't there. They tend to do an emergency appointment at the hospital which has to be within 2 weeks, this tends to involve a scan, ultrasound and potentially a biopsy. I was very fortunate that it was a cyst but I am under observation for the next year. You cannot fault the NHS when it comes to this sort of thing.

Good luck with the appointment and try not to worry until you know what it is. (Easier said than done - I know) Let's hope its just a cyst!