30s TTC: For BESHes who have been trying to conceive since the Higgs Boson was last seen

[ChoChoSan]

Come and learn the Tao of BESH, a path to wisdom and emancipation that can be gained only by careful practice and meditation on the central tenets leading the way from the barren to the Updiffed. The Tao consists of:

4 Noble Truths: 1) The life of an emancipated women inevitably leads to barrenness and babyfails. 2) Barrenness is caused by women?s FAILURE to procreate before they reach their thirties as a result of selfishness and evilness, and general hag-ishness.3) Barrenness ends when BESHness ends. This is achieved by eliminating The DROID, thereby reaching a liberated state of UPDIFFMENT. 4) Reaching this liberated state is achieved by following the path laid out in the Tao of BESH.

5 Pillars of BESHdom; YOU MUST: 1) Undertake Regular Visits to FC ? Always observing the ritual traditions of Getting Your Rat Out and Partaking of the Dildocam 2) Undergo the Purification Rite to evict the cobwebs, rusty bicycles and old prams from your ancient uterus 3) Realise that Camping will most assuredly lead to a swift and lasting visit from R2D2 4) Observe the solemn monthly rituals of ?the prodding of the buzwams? and ?insertion of cigar? 5) Recognise the terrible power of such artefacts as the CBFM, and despair!

Eightfold Path of Diffment;

1. Intercourse must always be a union of Winky and foofoo (No Hankyhole)

1. Defeat the negative karma of ?spitting a lot up the fanny? by pushing egg white up there after it

1. Appease the gods of fertility by rubbing your ovaries whiddershins

1. Pray to Jebus to put baybee in your tumtum

1. Have your uterus sprayed with Teflon, and apply gaffer tape to the lady garden to stop BOC falling out and making angelbaybees

1. Recognise that likelihood of diffment is in direct proportion to the number of poas you use, and the earliness at which you use them.

1. Confirmation of a WIN can only take place after you have undertaken your First BESHly Baptism, and assembled in a place of drinking with other followers of the Tao.

1. The state of diffment is confirmed when the second red line has been drawn on the poas, and the poas set on fire to release a pall of white smoke.

The BESHly acolytes are now called upon to provide suggestions for the Ten Commandments of BESH...JOIN US!!

Mole - "Headsortails as if OM would produce anything less than heroic sperms. " - BRILLANT

Head, you have to show that to OM. He'll love it.

I did Cass ! His dear freckled face blushed, and out peeped his dimples, and he said, "Whatever would they think if they saw me now, with my hair needing cutting and my torn old shorts?!" I said, "They'd probably give you ten pee for a cuppa to be honest love."

He is a good boy, and it's nice to be reminded of it because I am an utter shrew.

Oooo, ClamberOn. Just off to read your screed. By the way - the OM's results don't show morphology, but they do show something called 'abnormal' count. I think (from Dr Googletons) that what remains after abnormal is % morphology. Does that make sense to anyone?!

HopOn, you go and get bladdered. Yes do it. It has taken me up until the age of 35 to realise that life is really fucking unfair but I still can't accept it and rail against it constantly. And I am in this case too. It sucks. And come in here and rant as often as you want. Essays are welcome. Anyone who takes issues with spellings and typos with feel the power of the BESHSMASH.

Oh Hoppity I'm sorry the news wasn't brilliant for you either. I know nothing about ICSI. Will they move you onto IVF afterwards if it wasn't successful as some seem to be saying with IUI?

I just asked ManStew about the bleeding testicles thing and he's never had it. S that was no help. That said, I googled it and the sites do seem to be saying if it's bleeding from the skin of the scrotum rather than anything internal it's likely to be irritation or possibly varicose veins rather than any Big Nasty.

I'm going to go and read up on the differences between IUI and ICSI now. I did know at one point but I've forgotten and I feel rude being so pig ignorant of these massive things you're facing.

Hello BESHies.

cinco. Sending you lots of lovely positive vibes my dear.

And my poor LadyGG - you poor thing, this is heartbreaking. I wish I could help, or take away even an ounce of the pain. Candle lit.

So....still No Droid. Well, I had the very lightest of spotting, but only after a fair amount of rummaging around in the general cervix area. Nothing ever made it to the gusset. And no cramping etc. It too, too confusing because whatever other flaws my baybeegetting syatems may have, they've always been utterly predictable in terms of Droid. Cramps for a day, pant snot, worse cramps, the red tide breaks.

What to do BESHies, what to do...

Oh HopOn, that is another punch-to-guts FC visit . I am not sure I know about ICSI and will now edumacate myself. Re. the sinking sperm count: as you've seen from Drom's brilliant experiences there does seem to be a lot that can be done to improve things, so I think your plan of having a run up to 1st Dec, with everything taken into account - vits, gym, clean living, maybe even needles - that's a really great plan. I don't know about bleeding nuts and will ask the OM. Gosh, I didn't know boys could have nasty things like that: the poor lad. If it's an aggravation to capillaries then maybe he needs to wipe very gently, and not aggravate it? Or even use those moist ones - they'd be less raspy I guess?

Urgh, the OM is wearing a pair of prison-issue white trackie-bottoms for comfort purposes. I did just point out we were supposed to be having Teh Secks later on...

PS Hoplite, I second the calls to get thoroughly wankered, preferably on something that sparkles.

Sorry I know you all probably know this but I found this interesting:-

"IUI or intrauterine insemination is a procedure that involves preparing the sperm for placement directly in the uterus. (An older term is artificial insemination.) Sperm is a small drop of the material in an ejaculate. Since semen contains large quantities of prostaglandins, the sperm must be removed from the semen before placement in the uterus. Prostaglandins can cause violent contractions, nausea and vomiting, and diarrhea if placed directly in the uterus. Most separation techniques utilize sperm motility in part for separation from the semen. The separated sperm are both more motile and more normally shaped than those found in the semen. All separation techniques loose some motile sperm. Between 10 and 30% of the motile sperm in the ejaculate are likely to be captured after separation. Older separation techniques (simple wash) damaged the sperm and are hopefully abandoned.

From a sperm viewpoint, getting pregnant either naturally or with IUI is a probabilistic event. Pregnancy is likely to occur more quickly when many sperm are available. We recommend IUI only when we expect to be able to harvest at least 10 million motile sperm from the ejaculate for use in IUI. IUI can clearly be done with fewer sperm, but pregnancies are then quite rare and IVF is usually a better use of your resources. When we reviewed our IUI results after our first five years in practice, we found that virtually all of our pregnancies had occurred in patients who had an IUI containing at least 20 million motile sperm. Some of these patients had much lower IUI yields in the cycles before they got pregnant. The variation in sperm counts from time to time can be helpful.

If a couple fails to get pregnant with IUI or if the sperm presents a very poor prognosis with IUI, then we generally recommend IVF. Since sperm is an issue, ICSI would be utilized. ICSI or intra-cytoplasmic sperm injection involves injecting a single sperm into an egg in order to achieve fertilization. This compensates for multiple sperm problems. The principle burden of sperm is to bind to the shell around the egg and penetrate it in order to fertilize it. Most sperm are not able to do this. (See science of infertility) In men with a low sperm count, functional sperm are likely to be even more rare.

For ICSI, relatively few sperm are required. We have helped a couple get pregnant with ICSI when we could locate only six sperm in the husband's ejaculate. Sperm shape is only weakly related to a sperm containing normal DNA. About 10% of the sperm of all men contain abnormal DNA. Some men with severe sperm problems will have decreased fertilization with ICSI, compared to other patients, but usually there are some sperm that will produce normal appearing embryos.

In men with obstructive azoospermia (e.g., vasectomy, absent vas deferens), sperm can be easily harvested surgically from the testicles or the vas deferens in our office. This sperm can then be used with ICSI to achieve pregnancy. The procedure is referred to as TESE.

Life often poses the question of whether the cup is half empty or half full. Many couples despair after they learn that they have to deal with poor sperm and that there are usually not good procedures to correct the situation. We now have the technology to compensate for almost any sperm problem. These techniques did not exist just a few years ago."

It's from this site

HopOn oh what a day it has been :(.

I think that success with ISCI is same as with IVF, and some places prefer to do it these days as you know for sure you are getting a high quality swimmer doing the bizniz - but Drom is the expert on this and I am sure will be along forthwith.

Have a nice drinkie, or ten - I shall join you .

Moley! Another NWBESH! Aha, they are all coming out of the closet now, how marvellous .

They helped people conceive when there were only SIX SPERM???? . That is amazing...

Head - IOTO

(It Only Takes One. I'm thinking of getting T-shirts printerd...)

Just wanted to say what a lufferly bunch y7ou all are - there is such a pool of knowledge and support here - I don't think there are many groups of ladies, on T'internet or in RL who would offer such compassion and understanding, with a complete lack of judgey pants. Oh, and the erotiviolence is good too.

Cheers, BESHies

Saltshaker - I'd prob give it another 24 hours then POAS again. But I have no good reason to give you for doing so...

You there LadyG ? Let us know how you're doing if so...

Legless (as I hope you now are - I did find a stiff gin v much helped with the news) ICSI and IVF are equally unpleasant, from what I understand - there's no extra nasty because of ICSI. In fact, as Lyra said, some clinics are now moving to ICSI because it is way more efficient than putting an egg in a big puddle of sperm and waiting for one little spermatozoa to punch its way inside.

For both you and lettice: initially, I felt like TNB and I were in this together - after all, I had a wonky tube and dodgy hormones, so it was my fault too. Then I started to be really angry that I had to go through all the drucks and he got away scot-free. Then I started to think that it was all his fault. Then I hated myself for thinking that and couldn't be honest and it all got stored up in a little ball of rage. Which is a roundabout way of saying whatever you're feeling is right and ok and you're not a bad partner for thinking it. If you are. Which you may well not be...

In the end, your men can and will affect the quality of their sperms. And it just takes one. And the power of the BESH is infinite and mighty and we will all win our baybees.

SO SAY WE ALL.

hopalong my FC buddy, I am so so :( that you also got bad news but from what the lovely caring google huntingcass has posted perhaps its not so bad? It sounds like the treatment will be the same process as IVF for you (ie: drugs and egg harvest) but with a better chance of a perfect swimmer, so in a way it might be a good thing? And also good that its given the OM a kick up the bum to improve his health, which can't be a bad thing.

molesworth Big up the NWBESH massive! (slightly more massive now there's more than two of us) prhaps NW instadiff BESH meet up might not be so far from reality? Are you close to the industrial hub or off up in the misty mountains to the norf? (if you don't mind me asking)

HB your bloke is a star, but tell him to put some proper keks on will ya? Or silk boxers.

Right i'm going to spend some time with TB, he's been lovely to me this evening and i don't want to repay him with being glued to the innerwebz (i think he is a little jealous of you ladies)

oh yeah salty POAES already ;-)

Lordy, what a day in the BESH palais. LadyGG I hope you are doing ok. So so sorry to hear of more bleeding and cunting window cleaners.

Lorry good on yer for getting all your q's answered and nipping in under the age limit. How are you feeling about it all now?

HopOn and Salad am gutted for you both. I'm sorry you didn't get better responses from t'medical people. I think they must become so blase, dealing with fertility ishoes on a day to day basis that they forget they are dealing with Real People. It is such a shock to the system, not to mention Totally Fucking Unfair . Good advice has been given all round so won't repeat. But will just reiterate that both Drom and Cho conceived naturally despite being about to start the IVF. Be kind to yourself and I will join you in a drink or twelve.

Cinco am gutted the IUI didn't work for you this time. The power of three MUST work for you next time though.

Candles have been lit and I've been thinking of you all tonight. I hearts ma BESHies I do. x

Am off to bed now but just want to say fanku fanku fanku for my fabulous handmade card and amaze choclit. Haven't tried it yet, am saving it for speshul occasion. Okay okay, I've stuffed my face with fish and chips and I don't have room but there is always tomorrow!

Oh yes, also meant to say well done on the JIAP results HB and I may also have a leetle crush on OM.

And I am a Twat. Last bit of last post was aimed at Scorps for making me a lovely card and sending present too. I like getting late pressies as it makes my birthday last for eva.

I am off on my holidays tomorrow BESHies, so will not be around for a bit. Be good while I'm away.

S'aw'iight, Poo. Nuffink's too good for the mother of my child

Have a wonderful holibob, Musingtons! MWAH! Ooooh, look - a kitten!

Just popping on to share BESHlove licks, findles, shin kicks and home brewed damson gin as required. Sorry it's been such a pants day for some.

Congrats on the jizz news Head joining in the pile on for your boy. TGB has been out this evening and after feeling sickly all day with a 24 hour bug I've spent my time snuggled under a blanket watching 'My sister's keeper' followed by Big Brother. Feeling ill makes me a pathetic weakling so I found myself having a good old weep. I've found it quite cathartic.

Night night BESHingtons, hair strokes and soothing lullabies all round.

Had a dreadful night. The pain got bad so took painkillers and retreated to bed. Bleeding bright red. Multiple clots passed. Don't feel pregnant. Tummy returning to flatness. Don't look good, does it gals? Mr GG got on 6:30 train back so will be with at 11:30. Going to phone the EPU when they open at 10:30.

Only bright spot is mini G, he put his arm round my neck and kissed me whilst I was sobbing quietly whilst I put him to bed last night. He is also good at applying the random violence too...

LadyG, I'm so sorry. And MrG away too. Hopefully the EPU will have more news or help for you. X