30s TTC: For BESHes who have been trying to conceive since the Higgs Boson was last seen

[ChoChoSan]

Come and learn the Tao of BESH, a path to wisdom and emancipation that can be gained only by careful practice and meditation on the central tenets leading the way from the barren to the Updiffed. The Tao consists of:

4 Noble Truths: 1) The life of an emancipated women inevitably leads to barrenness and babyfails. 2) Barrenness is caused by women?s FAILURE to procreate before they reach their thirties as a result of selfishness and evilness, and general hag-ishness.3) Barrenness ends when BESHness ends. This is achieved by eliminating The DROID, thereby reaching a liberated state of UPDIFFMENT. 4) Reaching this liberated state is achieved by following the path laid out in the Tao of BESH.

5 Pillars of BESHdom; YOU MUST: 1) Undertake Regular Visits to FC ? Always observing the ritual traditions of Getting Your Rat Out and Partaking of the Dildocam 2) Undergo the Purification Rite to evict the cobwebs, rusty bicycles and old prams from your ancient uterus 3) Realise that Camping will most assuredly lead to a swift and lasting visit from R2D2 4) Observe the solemn monthly rituals of ?the prodding of the buzwams? and ?insertion of cigar? 5) Recognise the terrible power of such artefacts as the CBFM, and despair!

Eightfold Path of Diffment;

1. Intercourse must always be a union of Winky and foofoo (No Hankyhole)

1. Defeat the negative karma of ?spitting a lot up the fanny? by pushing egg white up there after it

1. Appease the gods of fertility by rubbing your ovaries whiddershins

1. Pray to Jebus to put baybee in your tumtum

1. Have your uterus sprayed with Teflon, and apply gaffer tape to the lady garden to stop BOC falling out and making angelbaybees

1. Recognise that likelihood of diffment is in direct proportion to the number of poas you use, and the earliness at which you use them.

1. Confirmation of a WIN can only take place after you have undertaken your First BESHly Baptism, and assembled in a place of drinking with other followers of the Tao.

1. The state of diffment is confirmed when the second red line has been drawn on the poas, and the poas set on fire to release a pall of white smoke.

The BESHly acolytes are now called upon to provide suggestions for the Ten Commandments of BESH...JOIN US!!

Oh fucking hell LGG . What an utter utter cunt, I hope he gets run over . Are you alone? Is it worth calling the hospital - did they say you should call if there are developments?

Salad First, my precious, give yourself some time for this to actually hit you. I had very much the same thing happen to me - walked into FC thinking I was in a state about nothing, walked out with a "head straight to ICSI" diagnosis. I was all cool and calm and collected for a bit and then burst into tears for about two days solid.

The other reason that they won't do many more tests on you is that the answer will be IVF whether they give you an HSG or not. They should definitely do bloods, but they will redo them if you start a cycle to adjust the drug dosage for that cycle.

According to the goddess that is Zita, because IUI doesn't improve chances much beyond just shagging, lots of FCs are reluctant to use it anymore. It wasn't an option for us anyway, as TNB's count was less than 1 million, so we needed to make sure that the sperm got exactly where it needed to be.

There is tons that can be done, although none of it has any proper medical basis at all. Acupuncture would help him as well as you, although TNB flatly refused to consider it - I had the woo for both of us. TNB took pycnogenol, wheatgrass in pill form and Wellman Preconception. He stopped having hot baths and started wearing boxer shorts. I am now 16 weeks pregnant - make of this what you will.

I was 38 and 2 months when I got my referral so either they have just changed it or it is bullshit/malleable.

Bombetty Would be well up for a visit from you both, will contact you seperately - but also think it's an ace idea to arrange a 'land of robin' BESHmeet if others are up for it.

Don't worry about letting TB know what we're up to BTW, we're not broadcasting exactly what's going on but a few people know roughly where we're at. I've also let Mr T know about you two so hope that's not out of order?

It drives me mad that we all get different answers to the same questions .

Spunk: I am to say that we have never seen HO's numbers. He doesn't want to know the details - he says "if they says it's OK, I'm happy with that" (anathema to me). I managed to wangle from a nurse that his morphology was 6%, which used to be thought of as low but is now considered OK.I know that 10% of chaps have one ropey test, but only 1% have 2 consecutive dodgy tests, hence the importance of retesting.

Clomid: Lolly did you read my post on page 1 about this? Re: lack of efficacy in unexplained infertility :(? Also I think the ages etc. are specific to NHS Wales, but it sounds as though you have been lucky in this regard - hurray!

IUI: I keep forgetting to ask about this. It might be because I have only been to gynae outpatients so far, not actual FC, who may offer either IUI or IVF when I eventually get there?

I think it works diferently up here as there are very limited FC facilities for the whole north west i.e. Manc and Liverpool (even if you live in Cumbria you have to travel to one of these) - so the local hosps do the initial investigations to allow the FCs to concentrate on treatment.

We have had 2xprog, 1xFSH/LH, 2xspunk, and Hycosy (like HSG) all at local hosp. In an ideal world you would have most of this done at FC, as recommended by NICE - so I imagine that is how it works in That London, is it?

IVF: No Salad, have no decided against, it's just the time these things take:

11 May: told to go straight to IVF, but to have Hycosy first
6 July: Hycosy (ouch)
6 August: Letter referring us to FC for IVF (it didn't mention IUI so I'm going to check up on that - as well as the fact that I wasn't given a choice of clinic).

Haven't heard anything from FC yet. Think timescales to actual treatment vary hugely, primarily dependent upon who is funding you (which PCT). For example, my PCT only funds one cycle of IVF (bastards), but "accidentally" promised a number of couples 3 cycles, and are honouring this promise. That used up all the funding for a whole year. So there is a queue, and I expect to be waiting a long time.

Thanks drom i have heard of pycegynol before, might be time to buy some, hadn't heard that wheatgrass was good too. Might wait til get next tests back tho. He is already banned from baths and has never worn anything other than boxers. Has been really really good on the alcohol thing but point blank refuses to give up coffee (cant win em all) I suggested needles but he is very resistant too although might be able to persuade him.

laughing at out almost identical posts HB NOT laughing at bastard window cleaner.

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE apologies, I hadn't refreshed AT ALL.

Loz Curate's egg appointment, then? Cho is the queen of that fucker of a diagnosis - ask for the wise words of our guru. Hope you're feeling ok about the next steps.

LGG Am so sorry you're in shite state. Will keep all things crossed for you. It's probably better to be mad at the moment than to bottle everything up. I really hope this all works out.

HB HopOnLegover's boy had volume probs, if I remember - you need to make the OM drink more water. Or tea. Or any fluid that isn't boozes.

Oh bollocks x-post x 1000000000000.

Gaga how fucking dare he have a go at you grrrrr. So sorry about bleeding. Will you be going back to EPU?

Salad/Scorps - really think age thing varies hugely by PCT, just like BMI, previous children, how long you have been trying etc.

Holy shit Lyra the waiting list due to fuck up 3 cycles offering is SHOCKING. Not sure if I were one of those lucky couples how I would feel about effectively queue jumping at the cost of other people in the same boat as me. I am in NW as well but luckily V close to one of those FCs you mentioned, all my testing is being done at a 'local' hospital but geographically it is no closer than the FC so I suppose that is a blessing. Although I suppose thats doesn't bode well for the waiting list, again another reason why they are perhaps pushing it thru quickly. I hope you hear something soon.

OH shit, LGGG, are you sure this is it? Are you going to go back to hozzy? Go get this looked at, please. My heart is breaking for you

And I can't believe the fucking gob on that window cleaning CUNT! Don't worry about shouting at him - what normal person tells someone to fuck themself when they're yelling that they've had a miscarriage?! At a later date, you need to get your DH to sack him and tell him exactly why you never want to see him again (I say DH cos that kind of man will be threatened by a real man putting him straight). Then shove his fucking bucket up his twatty arse

Meant to add: Lyra, that 3-couples thing is SHIT I feel their pain and think they should get it, but FFS, that should not mean other couples have to wait for ages because of some bureaucratic fucktardery! Is unacceptable!

Am off to gym in about 30 mins for a thorough BESHSMASH!

Oh shit Lady, so sorry bleeding is back. Is your gut feeling that it is over despite the HB yesterday? What a cock your window cleaner is! Shout, scream, cry as much as you want - I went through the same 6 weeks ago and spent the week after initially finding a HB in a total mess - cried on my boss (who I hate), shouted at my child, was mean to my parents and partner! Do what ever you need to to get through the next bit, whatever that may be.

Lorry glad your app went well, phew on the age limit thingy!!!!!

Good news on the jizz HB.

Salad that is ver, ver interesting that you are in NW - hurray for another Northern BESH! I have been feeling isolated what with the Robin Hood/Welshie/South West/That London contingents :)

I also live as close to one of those FCs as to my local hosp...if you want to compare notes/support each other through you can email me at [email protected].

Again, the waiting list thing is usually dependent on PCT, not FC - so 2 people who live in diferent PCT catchments could be referred to same FC at same time, and the one living in the zone of the well-funded PCT could be treated within months, the other...years.

Yey! for NWBESH contingent, :( for PCT lottery. I was reading about Warrington PCT the other day canceling all the IVF for the Womens - that is extremely :( and well out of order. I will email you in a bit, thank you!!

Gaga

Have you rung the EPU? And are you resting? I am SO sorry

GG are you there? I am so sorry for banging on about my future imagined problems when you have an immediate and very real one. I really hope this is not what you think but I think you need to get it checked out as soon as pos, I hope thats where you are now tbh. xx

I'm so sorry I'm really crap and know nothing of these matters and numbers and stuff. Salad - I think Drom and Cass have been very wise in their advice about taking it all in and thinking about it, and it could be a good thing as regards your age. Laurie my love, am very proud of you for taking in all those facts so calmly and sensibly. ( I dreamt last night that you had a win.) It sounds as though things are reasonably positive. Hit me hard if that's wrong. I told you I was thick about these things. HB I'm so pleased about the jizz results and never ever feel guilty about getting good news. That's an order.

Gaga, I' SO sorry for you. Can you get yourself seen? This is very sad-making . Like someone else said, I hope twat window cleaner gets his comeuppance, and soon. Bastard.

Salad please don't be stupid. You have every right to be upset about your problems and talk about them here. The bleeding keeps coming and going. So it will be ok for a bit, I'll think it might be stopping and then bang, I'll feel the trickle again and loads. Then it will go again. And we're outside of the office time now (she goes at 4) - I could ring the ward number but it's still a wait and see I think. The bleeding not life threatening, there is nothing they can do in any case. I asked about checking hormone levels etc but they said they don't do that once they see a heartbeat because that establishes the pregnancy is viable. If carries on at a heavier level tomorrow I will call back. Spoke to my friend earlier and her sister bled heavily for 20 WEEKS! And now has a healthy baby. But it's the lack of symptoms that is bothering me (but I guess maybe you can unimagine them as easily as you can imagine them when WOOFLing?)

I just hate being in this limbo - I never bled like this last time, just spotted lightly really. I'm swinging from being convinced is all over and expecting to see baybee on the pad to having a little ounce of hope.

Have to pull self together though as have to go and get miniG soon. T'is another reason I don't want to go to hospital at the mo.

sozzer lady will cease self indulgence flagellation stat. I have also heard about people bleeding all the way through so I hope this is what is happening with you. The fact that it tails off and is not constantly heavy or increasing must be a slightly positive thing no? Also that no two pregnancies are the same with most people so lack of symptoms/more bleeding etc. than last time doesn't mean the worst. But i can understand that see saw must be freak you out!

I am a bit for upset myself as think i might be over reacting a bit, just a bit of a shock and I really wanted to come away with questions answered not with even more! gah typical. But feeling better so will take you very wise BESH advice and have a proper think over the coming weeks.

Commiserations to Cinco and Salad it's such a fucking lottery this game.

salad I was going to suggest that you talk to the wise (and most importantly...now NATURALLY DIFFED UP) Camel, as she had such a similar experience, that can take a bit of getting used to, but she obviously saw the BESHlamp being flashed across the skies over MN, and swooped down to post!

Cinco there is mos' def' a Pit in here, and I will personally come and customise it to your exact tastes...I have spent many a month down there myself after IUIs, so I hope I get the vibe just right until you get your righteous babywin.

LaurentPerrier and Lyra ... hell in fact AllTheBESHleLadies , NHS age / treatment limitations are FRUSTRATE! Once you take into consideration the months you have to wait between treatment if it doesn't work first time, and hideous ickleangelbaybee scenarios (thankfully rare)...that bit of time is precious. I don't mean to scare anyone, but I didn't think about all that shebazzle until I was mired in it, and if you haven't got ££££s for private treatment then you can be facing all that Daily Mail 'left it too late' panic. 'Tis a holy fright!

Scorps your Cunt-cle Fucker needs a fucking kick in the cunt, the cunt!

Should we all be taking inositol, do we think, or am I jumping the gun a bit?

LadyG am so grrrrr that this is happening, and twats of the WC not helping...or maybe are, in being a legitimate target of rage ventage? Hope lovely snuggles with miniG help to sooth your spirit, and take your mind off it a bit.

Rocket and DoubleL Congratulations on achieving the First Pillar of BESHdom. You are very holy and blessed. Also lots of knowledgable and helpful comments about the science bits, which I'll tell you later... I think there's alot to be said for the shock factor of 'this is actually happening to me' 'WTF??!!' which would cause even the most DHB of us to have a bit of a melt down. Have a tequila and a head stroke. No, not a stroke of head ...

Headsortails as if OM would produce anything less than heroic sperms.

I've taken so long to write this due to dinnertime ishoos, that you've probably all got diffed and left the building, or are off meditating on a pole or something.

In other news, I am also In The North West.

Hello ladies, first of all sorry I was not around, I did lurk. I would have some matters of logic to pick up with your uncle, Scorps uncle if I did not feel too deflated post FC.

Salad my love, similar to you, except even worse, we are to go for ISCI. Who said it's the wimmin living it late? It's the fekking men! It is such a big surprise as we thought we'd be going for IUI, that is what we were told at the first appointment and that is why I had HSG. But his results got even worse! Here they are:

Volume: 1.7ml
Density: 4 million
Motility: 35%
Morphology 18%

So it went down from 7.5 million last time, which is when they thought they would do IUI. Which is really freaking weird as a year ago he had v. low volume but 60 million!! We are kind of weirded out that it is profressively getting worse. At some insistence, the chick sent him for hormone results, but pretty much said there is nothing you can do.

There was also a similar atmosphere as you Salad. They do not even want to do a third test on CH as they say it is pointless: his results are just getting worse.* And the doctor asked: "Why do you seem so surprised?" BECAUSE LAST TIME YOU TOLD US WE'D GO FOR IUI!!
So, sorry, love, I am not sure I can comfort you, as I feel shite too, but can comizerate (sp?). At least the boy is taking it really seriously now (yes, we did have an argument why he did not before) and will do all those things: vits, gym... Ok, I am being unfair, he is not bad on the whole, just hasn't taken it super seriously on vitamins, 0 drinks... But I think he is upset enough now that he will. The consultant said we can demand another test in a few months time, if we really want to, but she sees little point. But at the moment we are getting a referral for the ISCI. December 1st for the initial appointment.

Btw, I am all a picture of perfection. Which is really freaking unfair.

Glad to hear your results Head.

Laurie glad to hear your experience was ok. How much longer on Clomid?

Drome Your post is very, very inpiring, and I have just shown it to CH. I think we have made a swift plan of action: try to improve boys till Dec. 1st and then demand another test. Then I don't know. I will research ICSI. Isn't it meant to be really bad?

I am sorry if I am missing things. The haglets are verbose and I am feeling tres weird. And sorry for misspelling. And also in a rush to get out, which is possibly good.

Lady I am sorry but am keeping my everything crossed. I really need a drink now. Going out with some laydeez who could be BESHes except that I have no clue if they want kidz. And they do not drink! Ok, maybe not BESHes.

*Another thing we thought / started worrying about: Does anyone have any experience re. bleeding bollocks? Sometimes he has that on the towel when he wipes and the GP said (now a while ago) that it is a normal thing as there are a lot of exposed capillaries and all men get it. True? He also had a lot of blood the other day...

That was a freaking essay. Sorry. I am off to have a drink. Or ten. Who cares, I am a picture of freaking perfection .

I want someone to get diffed NOW!