30s TTC: Summertime, and the diffin's easy. White goods are jumping and the WOOFLing is high. MSDP in full swing.

[MountTheFairy]

The one before the BESHory Towers. Easy one for summer: I have dug up a fishing pond in the middle of the Palace, put a roof light over it, got some fishin' sticks and put some Gershwin on. Salad's providing Elderflower Fizz, served by newbs in topless bikinis. Could life be better?

Sorry, killed the conversation. Should take myself off when in this mood. Back to adoption, snogging Arials and ogling Cass's pert bottom.

Pol, my Mum made me a castle cake for my 7th (?) birthday. You just need to do several layers of square sponge and then buy 4 swiss rolls for the turrets, which you sharpen into points and then ice the fucker (my Mum did proper battlements shapes with a craft knife, as well as a drawbridge with liquorice chains, but she is mental so you don't need to go to those lengths. Like mother, like daughter, you say? )

The issue with inter-racial adoption is a fear of the child losing touch with their original culture and heritage. I totally get that and agree, but still think a kid would be better off with loving parents of any background than being stuck in care waiting for the right cultural match.

I feel like I am a big meany superbitch because I would never consider adoption. I'm really obsessed with lineage and family heritage (these are the themes of all my creative endeavours, even when I was young myself) and want to have kids that have my DNA. Does that make me sound tewtally evil? I'm not slagging off anyone who considers adoption - far from it; I wish I was a bigger person about it all. Perhaps my views would be different if I already had a child of my own. And Cass, soooooooooo many women adopt a kid thinking they'll never get pg (or pg again) and as soon as they adopt... SHAZAM! Insta-diff!

Hmmm, am considering it more now

Well, my last day at work went okay. Was v busy as many people wanted to pop in to say bye and stuff. Famous novelist bloke brought us a bottle of quality champers! And my journalism tutor came in and said he'd read a v old blog I'd written about work and thought it was v funny and wanted to show it to his editor at the local alt-newspaper, where tutor guy works p-t, to suggest they get me to turn it into a full-length article! Obvy, now I'm boasting about it all over the intertubes it'll never happen, but it gave me hope. Bossfriend is least soppy and sentimental person ever but she was getting all teary and gave me her Madame Cholet toy* (this is how we roll, bitches), which showed how upset she was. ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Sorry if have not commented on everything said since this morning. Have headache and am a bit 'motional about work. Snogs and roundhouse kicks for everyone

*This is not as bizarre as it sounds. Okay, it is, but it'd take too long to explain.

Day1 is always justification for being in t'pit Mountie so don't apologise.

Ocky see, I was shit! But at least I made everyone else feel more blooming.

I guess people are having fun on a Freeday neet. Wot?
Just spoke to a friend who had her first baybee 2 month-ish ago. She don't live here anymore, so I only spoke to her now. She is pretty miserable: no sleep, feeling like a poo cleaning / breast feeding machine, the usuals. Was a BESH before, well not strictly on here, you know, but our sort, and just told me she cannot believe she wanted it so desperately before . I am sure that will pass when she has had some sleep.

But it has reminded me (and this is individual, I know) that I am not strictly in a rush and think it must happen NOW. It is more the panic that something is wrong, you know, which makes me miserable and panicked.

That's my two pence for the day. Now I'll go back to being unreasonable and spanking noobs. Ok, ok, Bohnensuppe too. (Gosh, that did sound kinky.)

Well we went out for a lovely dinner, but now TH is playing some noisy computer game so I can ask the question I would've done earlier if I hadn't been on my way out of the house.

Having said I have a cousin who's adopted, I'm wondering whether fertility ishoos can be hereditary. My aunt is my dad's sister and the member of the family I'm most like in lots of ways (although that's probably neither here nor there). I've always presumed (although never asked) that they adopted because they couldn't have their own; they'd been married nearly nine years which gives plenty of time to have tried. This is obviously before IVF and so on were an option, although I've no idea how long the likes of Clomid have been around. So is it possible that my aunt has some fertility ishoo that I've inherited?

I don't really want to ask her, not least because that would give away that we're ttc. And we don't know that we have any specific ishoos, but it's a niggling question, so I thought I'd ask for BESH wisdom on such things.

This is going to sound no help whatsoever Ocky but having wondered the same about my family (ministew is at present the 5th generation of only children on my side) I've come to the conclusion that there's really no point in worrying about it; because if it IS genetic, it'll likely be something that will show up somewhere anyway ie if it's a genetic lack of eggs, FSH would be high, if it's a genetic difficulty ovulation, that will be found out, if it's genetic low prog, ditto, if it's a genetic abnormality of tubes / womble then they'll get to that too in time. I know that sounds really unhelpful cos you're not having your bloods yet (and hopefully you wont have to cos you'll diff before then) but what I'm trying badly to say is that if it IS anything hereditary (and I don't think most times it is, from what I could google), the end result of that will most likely still be something relatively easily identifiable and hopefully treatable.

Does that make sense? I hope so

Off to bed now and off to uni for weekend early in the morning so good weekends to all, with a special "Free from the constraints of paid employment" grope and fishslap to Scorps and a round of gin fizzes with Twirl chases to the rest.

I wish I could be of help. But I really do not know. Could you innocently ask: "Why did aunty x never have biological children?"

That does make sense Cass (have fun playing with semi clothed bodies for the weekend by the way. I hope they're all properly alive....). I think in the absence of docs being any help I'm looking for answers wherever, although realising that there may be none to find. And it may well be that my aunt never knew what was wrong - I've no idea how much testing they did 30+ years ago, not least because if there was less they could do there'd've been no point knowing.

Fairylights I'm not sure who I'd ask the innocent question of, who might know and take it as innocent if you see what I mean. It's the sort of thing my sister might've asked at some point out of professional curiosity (she's a midwife) but she'd know straight away it wasn't an innocent question. And in general we're not a family who talks about that kind of thing, so short of asking my aunt herself I'm not sure anyone would know anything.

Occy, your paternal Aunt's fertility has as much influence on yours as a complete stranger has, you'll be pleased to know. It's only things to do with your Mum, Gran, Great-Gran, etc., that you need to worry about/be glad about. You're not your Aunt's direct bloodline, you see; you're just nearby branches on the family tree. So don't worry about that. You can share common genetic traits, yes, but only the ones your Dad has (even if they are dormant in him). For you to get certain wonky fertility genes off her, your Dad would have to share them, which he can't, as he is male. Does that make sense? Reproductive heredity has to come from your Mum's side. Or at least from someone you are directly descended from, which is not your Aunt. Hope this helps you stop fretting about it. And now my job is done, it's off to bed for me!

PS Also, infertility in your Aunt and Uncle's marriage could be his, and he has zero biological link to you (unless you're from Norfolk, of course ).

Attention long-term BESHes. Iggy is in labour. BESHBABY alert!

Eeep! And Yay! Have lit BESHcandle*.

*Not even joking.

Mounty quite spooked out this end as we also have our 2nd FC appointment on the 9th. Weird huh?

cass WAS gonna say that if its any consolation my sis has a 5 yr gap between my DNs and DN1 start school just after no.2 was born. I know its different as they are both biological but the age gap has worked really well. If mini stew is a bit older then you can explain the situ to him better and also the starting school thing will have him focussing on loads of fab new experiences, plus he will be more able to help out with newbee and also understand better if there are settling in difficulties. Just a thought.. But anyway its a moot point now, and of course you know what is it best for your family!

Anyhoo BESHresume:

Salad is 38, and has been with 32 year old OH 11 yrs. OH type of bloke who think he 'doesnt like children' even tho he is brilliant with them. We have always used the type of 'contraception' that causes medical professionals to laugh at you when you refer to it as such. Been not using that 'method' for 3 years after having a bioclock related melt down age 35 and emotionally blackmailing OH into TTC or at least not trying NOT to TTC. Actively TTC for 7-8 months, but have never had even a sniff of diffment in all that time so pretty much convinced was totally barren. Referred to FC and a load of GP bloods done after having a weird episode of mid cycle bleeding where upon subject of lack of diff came up (i suspected ectopic after reading far too much internet) Diagnosis 'just one of those things' (yep thnks for that) Turns out my result are 'normal' but results of OH's jizz test came back 'fairly low'. Got FC referred 2nd CD21 test on monday plus LH, FSH etc. so am expecting those to not be all shiny. Have above mentioned 2nd appointment at FC in sept. So we have BOTH just started chugging those bleeding horse tablets from pregnacare in order to try and improve things so am a bit miffed that OH stayed up until the wee hours getting hammered as tbh WTF is the point if he going to do that?

sorry end of self absorbed rant. hope all is well in the palais today. welcome back to gin you wont really know me but i was lurking while you were going thru your scare just prior to your hols and its that what intro'd me to the wonderfully supportive if slightly violent and sexually charged goings on ITT. So you have a special place in my heart (but not in a SWF way (unless that turns you on?))

Ruddy Mary's and dead arms all round.

PUSH, IGGY, PUSH!!! (Erm, unless it'd be a bad idea at this stage). Waaaah, another BESHbaby is on its way. Candle is lit and the pacing has begun. Huuuuuuuuuuuuge luck and love to Iggy, MrIggs and of course, the Igglet. Love ya, gal xxxxxxxx

Cass, about age gaps: there's relatively big sibling age gaps on both sides of my family - my Uncle is 13 yrs older than my Mum (no other sibs inbetween)! - and there's been no probs at all with any of us having age gaps (am nearly 4 yrs older than my bro). And TYF is 2 yrs younger than his elder brother and 6 yrs older than his younger one and gets on far better with the younger. I've always viewed gaps between sibs as normal and positive.

Oooh, that's exciting, go Iggy. Do you think shouting bumsex will help at this point?

Thanks for the attempt at reassurance Scorps. Fraid it didn't work, on the basis that just because my Dad can't share any possible reproductive issues with his sister what with being a bloke and all, that doesn't mean he can't share the genes, it's just that they wouldn't affect him (or not in the same way). I share 1/4 of my aunt's genes, so it's possible there could be a connection.

All of which just adds to the conjecturing which gets me nowhere and I should probably stop. And of course half my genes come from my Mum who successfully had 2 of us without any problems that I know of (although we don't talk about these things!) so I should stop worrying. But I need to do something to distract me from the 2WOOFL!

Occy, your Dad cannot pass on your Aunt's reproductive problems (if the problems are hers)! If she had inherited the problems from your Gran then there's a slim chance he could pass them on BUT if your Gran DID have them, your Dad and Aunt wouldn't exist, would they?! The only way your Dad could pass them onto you would be if he had INHERITED them from your Aunt. Seeing as he is not her descendant, then it's impossible. Seriously, is basic biology.

Also, when I first started TTC, I asked my Doc to reassure me that I couldn't inherit my own Aunt's infertility, even though I knew I couldn't and was being paranoid and the Doc practically laughed me out of the room. You can't inherit genes from an Aunt or Uncle. Only a parent or Grandparent. In terms of INHERITING genes (not sharing them - to share them with your Aunt you would have to be her sister, not her niece), which is what fertility ishoos would be, Aunts and Uncles have ZERO input, because you are not their child! I am shouting 'AAAARRRRRGH!' at you now, cos you've clearly got this into your head and it's a biological impossibility! Another factor is, that when it comes to reproductive health, women take after their mother's side. The father's side doesn't really get a look-in. It's not like eye colour and all that.

Also also, I studied reproductive biology and genetics as part of my MA diss, so I do know what I'm talking about!

Cass also on age gaps my sis is 16 years older than me and my brother 13 years older. Mum thought she was starting menopause when she missed that period! She'd been told never to have more bairns due to Rhesus incompatibility issues and having had a stillborn. But I was just dandy. So like Scorps says, lots of gaps can work.

Bombastic, not only are our synchronised appointments spooky, but our histories are pretty similar too. I also had a weird bleed, which, after a lot of checks, they said was just one of those things. Though this is also why I think my dildocam etc. will be fine, as I have been checked before... and you must have been too after that incident.

Ocer no idea aboot genes, but agree that they will find it if it's there, and if your aunt had it, they were probably just not able to find it 30 yrs ago...

Scorps, I don't want to get into an argument, but I do share genes with my aunt. I know I can't inherit them from her, but she shares 50% of her genes with my dad, and I inherited 50% of his, so I share 25% of hers. The %s you share with relatives decrease as you get further removed, but any blood relative you do share a certain amount with, whether you're a descendant or not (because you inherited them from the same people at some point in history; in this case my aunt and I both inherited some of our genes from my grandparents). It's the way you calculate possibilities when trying to work out whether you might be a carrier of a disease that's elsewhere in the family.

All of which is probably irrelevant to me and any potential fertility ishoos, for all the very sensible reasons people have mentioned.

Any news on Iggy? (which is far more interesting than my genetics!) I know I could go over to the deli and see but lurking there too often tends to scare me.

Oh BESH = Bacon Egg Sausage Hash browns?

One too many b's. I know what it means really but I can't stop thinking about it now. Don't mind me, just mumbling to myself.

MTF yes very spooky isnt it? (wonder if you are me and I am the one with MPD) Mind you, I haven't had the pleasure of dildocam. Just got an internal exam from the GP and as that was absolutely fine and I never had any further mid cycle bleeds it was left at that. Some thing to look forward to in September then :S
At least we can compare notes eh? fun times

Ocarinaoftime Although i can understand your reasoning seeing as Scorps has done her home work already I'd take the reassurance she is offering. Think what she is saying is that even tho you share genes with your Auntie none of those will influence your fertility because that kind of thing passes down thru the mother. Like with male pattern baldness, the gene is linked to the X chromosome so if you were a bloke and your dad or gramps was bald, it doesnt mean you will be but if your mums dad is then your prob going to end up looking like the KIng of Siam. (I only know this cos FIL is a dead ringer for Jean Luc Picard so OH has looked it up :D)

Is certainly true when looking at breast cancer genes for example oc... parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles and siblings were all part of the calculation when I went for to the genetic counsellor...basically any blood relative was relevant.

I came out as high risk by the way. Super. And irrelevant, obviously

ps I still like Bonkers Excellently Saucy Harlots.

stinky someone (I forget who, and am too lazy to look, sorry) got the BESHquest right a page or so ago.

We are rocking, aren't we saladcream? So you've done all the tests etc. prior to your 2nd appointment? I am slightly starting to wonder how they will do dildocam on CD 4 as I am sure there will still be an ickle bit of droid leakage. And I am having killer cramps this time, just to rub it in!

Aaah genetics. Fascinating stuff. Cass you may be interested in this - remember we were discussing scoliosis a few million pages back? I inherited that through my paternal aunt, who most kindly neglected to pass it on to her own daughter, and preferred to give it to me instead. Where's the justice? And even more interestingly the vast majority of ideopathic scoliosis cases occur in girls. Another reason why I want a boy. Though clearly I wouldn't send a girl back if one should turn up.