Entitled male relatives who contribute nothing to Christmas

[GooseyGandalf]

We’re having dh’s dps for Christmas this year. Mil will bring something thoughtful, gifts for us all, that she has picked, bought and wrapped, offer to help in the kitchen, make lovely comments about the food. In previous years she has hosted for the extended family.

Fil will come. If any of the food isn’t up his liking he will pull a face. He will accept gifts, making his opinions obvious on them, as mil tuts at him and tries to redirect our attention, and at no point will he contribute anything to the occasion. Gifts are of course from both of them, but he will have no idea, or interest, in what they are. It’s obvious mil is entirely responsible.

When we were first married mil would correct my cooking choices, in line with fils preferences. I’m very happy to accommodate allergies, intolerances, preferences, vegans, and arfid - I like my guests to feel welcome. I went along with it, for mil and dh’s sake because they probably wouldn’t visit as much if I didn’t, and we’d have to stay with them more often instead, which is worse.

The entitlement sets my teeth on edge. Mil will be almost apologetic for coming at all, conscious of the workload, and he will just arrive and sit there, the great family patriarch and everyone plays along with it.

Including me.

When dinner is served, he will automatically seat himself at the head of the table, taste the turkey and there will be a pause, while everyone waits to see if he approves, and mil will relax and dh beam proudly at me and I’ll try not to get stabby.

It’s a small enough thing in the greater scheme and not particularly unusual in his generation (though nothing like my lovely df, or even my gf) and not worth causing a row about. Just getting it off my chest here, in the hopes of getting through another Christmas without exploding.

Does anyone else have the honour of hosting a Great Male Guest this Christmas?

Chef’s kiss!

@GooseyGandalf I have just recently dug up an area of my garden that wasn't doing anything. I was going to put shrubs and trees in but I think your need is greater. Let me know when you want it and I'll make sure to leave the outside light on!

Also I'm fascinatad by fil tasting the turkey first, I don't believe even the royals do that. What would happen if he didn't approve of it for some reason (even though I'm sure your an excellent cook). Would everyone else be expected to abstain too?

Stop doing it if you don't like it.

In my family the head of the table was always reserved for the youngest child/grandchild. Stems from the fact that it was a carver seat (had arms) so it was easier to keep a toddler hemmed in.

even now when there are no little ones, youngest child/teen still sits in that seat. When the next generation comes along it will be the same.

@MrsWhitesnot to be 'Elevenerife' but my MIL 'came to help' when our 2nd child was born (5 days in hospital post difficult C-section). She arrived whilst I was in hospital, to see her son & our toddler & emptied the freezer of all the batch cooking I'd prepped for when I got home with the new baby. I discovered she'd refused the spare room bed (a single) as 'bad for her back' so was using the marital double (dh in spare room!) They'd put an inflatable mattress in the sitting room for me & the baby as 'so much easier'. Day 1, she put a dummy in my baby's mouth 'to stop that horrible noise' & went off hone after the requisite pictures with baby. Awful woman.
I'm Divorced now (for many reasons)

As long as this goes on and you collude in it, the more likely your DH and your DSes will turn into this man. Everyone is busy at the end of the year - everyone. They all still buy presents and observe social obligations. They make an effort to socialise. I cannot believe your husband cannot do Christmas dinner and make sure it is to his father's liking.

My DH will work 12 hours a day til 22nd and then go and ram raid Oxford Street on 23rd for presents. He will also buy and make the Christmas dinner and wrap all his presents. Both DSes buy gifts for us and their grandmothers and have done since age of 10.

And it's not generational. DH's uncles (all ex coal miners and lorry drivers in their 70s/80s) cook, change nappies and do childcare. My beloved godmother died this year and she was the queen of celebrations and gift giving but her husband (mid 70s) still bought and sent my son's birthday card and present a few days after her funeral.

I'll raise you a BIL.

Him and my DSis are coming. Him begrudgingly, because it interrupts his plans to sit on his arse with a ready meal.

Last year, he and DSis turned up completely empty handed. Okay, whatever, I had everything sorted anyway. No prior offer of, "oh, shall we bring drinks/dessert?"
Famously, BIL had to be "trained" by sis to say thank you for things. So now, after the meal, sister will nudge him, he'll wait for a pause in conversation, bow his head to me and loudly pronounce, "Thank you MOST kindly!" Like he's from the Victorian times. Honestly, it's so forced and ott, I'd rather he didn't bother.

Then to top it off, eating all my food, drinking all my drink, he didn't even buy me a present!

At first I was going to let it go, but I got increasingly annoyed and mentioned it quietly to sister. She hadn't clocked he hadn't got me anything, but asked him about it privately. And apparently his response was, "I didn't know what to get, and then it was too late."
Dude has known me 20 years.

Needless to say, it'll be interesting to see what he comes up with this year!

So when MIL and SIL moved the seating plan round, did you ask 'why are you doing that' or have you ever? Is it worth doing that and following it through to the logical conclusion?
'Why are you doing that?'
'Oh, FIL.likes to be at the head of the table, he's old fashioned that way'
'Ah I see, well im actually really keen that the kids dont grow up thinking men should be at the head of the table over any other member of the family, so I'll move it back to how it was'

OR

Tell the kids they will be at the heads of the table and give them 'special duties' such as opening the meal like old timey jousting tournaments, then make a big jolly point to everyone about how much fun that will be and dont let up. Depends on the age of the DC.. he cant shift a grandchild out of his spot!

haha - no. I would not be going along with that.
And i would be seating myself at the head of the table - going as far as "FIL you are sitting in my place, move please"

because i am beyond giving a fuck about entitled men

I’m sorry but she’d have been sent packing with her inflatable mattress in tow! Well done you for divorcing the mummy’s boy who thought this was acceptable!

You and your DH need to stop facilitating it. It's your house, your DH sits at one end of the table and you sit at the other. Your guests sit as directed.

Carve the turkey in the kitchen onto a serving platter and offer it first to MIL, then SIL, then FIL. "My parents taught me to always serve the female guests first, beginning with the eldest, then the men, beginning with the eldest. I think it helps the children develop good table manners to see things done correctly." I may have said similar to MIL with a hard Paddington stare.

Also, give him jobs. He can be in charge of paper collection after unwrapping, putting out some rubbish and topping up drinks.

No it’s not generational my lovely dad didn’t do this ever( my dm would’ve told him where to go tbh)

Buy a round table...

He's been enabled ! And u shouldn't have gone along with it !
No one wud behave like that in my house no one ,!! it's disrespectful as well and not teaching your children anything other than don't upset grandad he's the boss and u do t want them turning out like that either 😑

My maternal grandad used to do this a bit. He would be at the head of the table, say grace then eat first. But he always, always said something positive about the food I can’t remember him ever being negative about anything at Christmas. But my grandma absolutely did it all with very little of his input.

My paternal grandfather however was the biggest Christmas miser I’ve ever met. He was awful. We used to go there on Boxing Day but he banned my nana from doing it when I was about 12 because he hated spending the money.

Luckily the other men in family are very easy to please and help with presents and hosting and cooking.

Not just men in my experience (although mostly men I’ll admit). We had an elderly female relative who came every single Christmas as we were her only relatives. We’d serve her first as she was the oldest but she’d immediately start eating so quite often had finished before me and DH had been served. We solved that by serving her last. She also would randomly stick her spoon in the dessert in its serving dish before anyone had been served. Final straw for me was her attempting to cut the corner off a very fancy chocolate tart I’d taken 2 days making (think something you’d see in a French cake shop window). I slapped her hand before I knew what I was doing. She took the pip and said she was going home and left (she lived about a mile away). She never helped, she never bought anything and she often moaned about the youth of today. The grim reaper solved the problem for us.

Bollox that it's a generation thing. It's a fucking arrogant arsehole thing.
Neither my dad or FIL anything like this, 78 and 83 and would do anything I asked to help, in fact they try to help so much they almost get in the way

The would also both be so appreciative of any food that even if it was shit they would say it was delicious.

You don't like him. Just say that upfront. He will know you don't like him. MIL knows you don't like him.
It sounds as if he teases you.
What would annoy him would be if you learned not to be bothered by anything he does. Or doesn't do. At all. And mean it.

Dh’s other siblings married earlier, and for years Christmas was always held at pil’s house. When I joined the family and insisted on spending every second year with my family, it disrupted the dynamic. Then the other siblings got brave too. The first year I offered to host them, there was huffing and sulking but it was much better for my dc to stay home, and it took the pressure off mil and the rest of his family were delighted. But we ended up recreating their family Christmas to an extent.

Hosting my family is completely different, tons of laughter, no ceremonies, and much more like our normal family life. Maybe if dh was used to sitting at the head of his own table, he’d have displaced fil naturally.

@allthingsinmoderation not frightened exactly, no. It’s a much more subtle dynamic than that. But there’s always been a weird undercurrent. I think it’s more to do with withholding approval.

It's bad manners and nothing to do with generations. He just had despicable table manners and your MIL has enabled/facilitated it or known no better.

I agree, I’ve known men who behave like this in every generation and equally women who facilitate it.

My DF would never have behaved like this but neither my DM nor my DGM would have tolerated it. My FiL certainly had the tendency but was not as rude is this FiL. He would not, for instance, have taken the “head of table” position in someone else’s house and if I gave him a tea towel to dry up he would do it up to a point. However my MiL always pandered to it.

I see younger men behaving in the contemporary equivalent of entitlement behaviours - we see them on threads here all the time, especially about men who expect to continue to live their social/home lives unaffected by the arrival of children whilst their wives are run ragged.

Every group has entitled arseholes who remain entitled until those around them demand better.

No - my dad and one FIL were great - while not being involved in any Oreo work themselves were extremely appreciative and acknowledged the efforts of others. My other FIL (the other is actually a step FIL) was a bit as you describe in that he made no effort and seemed to bicker constantly with his wife but I think in private more of a teddy bear.
Why is it so important to play this game to the detriment of everyone else? A rhetorical question. Your poor MIL.

Why are you putting up with this in your own home? It’s all about him being powerful and in control.

I’d get hold of a round table just for Christmas. eBay, Gumtree or Freecycle are your friend.
Dish up dinner in the kitchen. Plates out to MIL, female adults, children, you, DH with FIL last. Everyone starts when the plates are out. No sitting there waiting for his comment. If he does say something then either have something to say lined up to redirect the conversation or dash out to the kitchen to do something. Don’t let him hold court.

Generic gift for him with minimal thought;, M&S slippers, pyjamas or jumper.

Failing this, invite them over after lunch. Buffet tea where everyone helps themselves.

i went to a funeral a couple of years ago and sat opposite a very distant relative. He offered his plate to me to get him some food from the buffet. I just laughed at him and asked him if his legs weren’t working. Seriously, what are these men thinking?!

@MrsWhitesThank you (it took me 20 years, but I got there in the end!) I realise my post was not about Men or Christmas but, OP, I grew up with a Father who behaved this way (hugely enabled my Mother). His own special seat at table, Lord of the remote control, first & biggest helping of ALL foods (many reserved just for him) etc. Years later when I visited he ate a plate of sandwiches in an armchair whilst watching TV. Put the plate on the floor & told me to pick it up & take it to the kitchen. As I was (discreetly, but he realised) breastfeeding across the room I refused. My mother told me off for 'not looking after the men of the house' (brother also 'sainted') & it caused a biggish scene.
OP, as you don't want to 'ruin Christmas,' - and he WILL be unbearable/ make MIL suffer if you change anything, you are somewhat limited. Let FIL sit at Head, but I'd put the turkey in front of your H to carve & serve MIL first. Other than that, ignore FIL completely.