Our guests are hinting that they are going to stay longer than wanted ! How to find the words?

[Duvetdaysaregood]

Guests invited until tomorrow. Been here since 23 rd with general idea to go between c mas and new year.

Heard one lot say to another , oh how long are you staying.? . they replied ..oh maybe till the new year. ..

I could not just holler .. what ..?? From a distance across kitchen.

So , said to them later , what did you say about stating longer .. ? They shrugged it off and changed the subject
I said i needed to know . Evasive .

I repeated that we needed to know for food etc and they just said oh well we could get food .

I have had this before and struggled .we live in a beautiful area of natural beauty where people go on holiday and they do relax .

anyone had this before ? If so , do I need to directly say please leave ..and if so how ! Without causing offence ?
They know
us well and I am struggling to ask them to go . If i say we have other guests due , ( a lie and dont want to lie ) I think they would just say oh no problem , we can all muck in , offer to sleep on camp bed if bo room .. I jusy want ghem to go .

Ha good thinking !
mushrooms , all sorts of things like boiled eggs, onions , mixed veg ( likes meat and 2 veg - traditional fare )
He will eat meat that he would not normally eat if its free/ and he does not want it to go to waste tho.

The attraction for him - apart from being looked after etc .. is almost like a free holiday each time . Its an area people pay a lot of money to stay in . Beat part of 1k for a small place ( its sad as since covid , whilst its always been expensive, we can see that the visiting demographic has changed quite a lot .. less ordinary folk .. which is a shame .

Op for his part i can't see what's wrong in enjoying a break with his gf parents who live in a beautiful place?
It's your job to make sure that visit works for you and box clever.

I've just read some LB and it's an awful situation. Sometimes there is no other way except estrangement but I don't think that would be anyone's first choice.

It's early days , learn how to manage him and you won't cut anyone's off nor will they you. Honey honey to catch flies.

You could even slly put those muscles to work...can he help out with any manual labour? Gardening? Projects?
Get him working somewhere and enjoy time with DD.

I note on the lb thread op wants to gift some money to her gc and lb wants to talk about how because he very rightly says the money in a bank will just erode.

The op speaks to him and thanks him for his research.
He responds very well to that.

Make it work for you. It's all amusing these gung ho beat everyone with a stick posters but i think other strategies work better all around.

Morning OP, hope all is well and you’re not eating your heart out over this too much.

All the same, I’m going to add a final rant. These are not ‘young’ people in the way it’s generally understood. You do not need to be making allowances for some kind of teenage misbehaviour here; they’re adults with adult lives. This bloke is highly unlikely to become Mr Right On and ditch a personality which gets him everything he wants. As you wait for him to learn to be civilised (how?) your daughter’s personality will be chopped away.
I still think even the risk of a period of alienation is worth it if it could save her from his clutches, because that’s the way I see it all tending. She’ll be subsumed into the odious culture of this family, and will never be that sweet girl again.
If I were an archbishop, I’d say her immortal soul is in very grave danger unless you and your husband make it clear to her that you find him a bad character, and that he is not to be brought into your midst. At the very least, find out why on Earth she thinks he’s Mr Wonderful! It’s so very contrary to her upbringing and generous nature. If she’s bolstered by his presence, enabling her to negotiate the outside world, that’s a bigger problem than her needing it in the first place. Volunteering work would do more for her!
Ach, Im sorry to be such a ranter, but seeing your home life shattered by worry in this way, not to mention seeing a lovely woman mangled in the grip of a nightmare partner and his grifter parents really, really makes the red mist descend.

I wish you wisdom to deal with this new year, and hope you find advice you can adopt to help you through, from wiser heads than mine,
All the best x

Re lobster boy I see the foundation were laid over a loan from op.

It seems lb parents gave him 30 grand for a house and she asked her mum and she said yes but on a loan basis and with a deed of trust.

Has lb boys parents made that same decree? Had they made him sign one I wonder.
In the end it was lb parents who paid the Dds 30 grand share? And her dd keeps saying " you let me down over the house".

Op blames lb. But it's lb family ploughing the money in and seemingly supporting their situation?
This was complicated by lb upsetting ops DD and op rightly calling the police.

I wonder if lb parents made him sign deed of trust against her though? I'e my family trusts you lobsters girl but yours doesn't trust me. That also seems to have put her daughter at a loss in terms of her house ownership.

To this op....please please tread carefully!!

I am with @Millytante here.

The idea that he will suddenly change his odious grasping mean character is so beyond deluded, so OP please disabuse yourself of this vain hope.

Not a chance or hope of this happening.

He is who he is and he clearly has been dragged up.

I can completely understand your confusion.

It is a good idea to open any conversation from a position of very faux concern about the meanness, money issues, concern that she isn't being taken advantage of financially???.
You know his salary?
Where is all HIS money going?

It is very normal to express confusion and shock that people would visit in the way they did and how they behaved.

Faux confusion can be a very very effective tool.

Do it in stages.....if there is a suggestion of a wfh visit, knock it on the head completely, don't entertain it.

If she mentions a summer visit with his parents, which he undoubtedly will, why wouldn't he, you could say the below....

(Shock and confusion at the manner of their visit and how they behaved.

And then of course you can be very faux apologetic when you say "Darling we really are not a free guest house for people like this, it was a really exhausting expensive week. We will put it behind us, but it won't be repeated, I'm sure you can understand".)

She can visit again with the boyfriend BUT with plain simple meals that he doesn't like.
Absolutely no going to pubs and restaurants and paying for anyone but yourselves, spelt out clearly.

Personally I would tell them you are doing a liver cleanse so no alcohol being served.

So what if she is shocked, embarrassed or upset?
That is for her to figure out.
You have boundaries and are not mugs.

It is perfectly reasonable if challenged on this to say sweetly to her "Darling, we have always been very generous hospitable people but we will not be taken advantage of by anyone".

Denial tells her this is acceptable.
Sweetly telling her it isn't is absolutely your right.

If your daughter wants to flouce off, that is on her.

But allowing this to continue will not do you any good long term.

She is an adult and she needs to be treated like one, but you showing her respect for her and yourself by being sweetly honest is the way to go IMO.

Billy .. fab advice ! Thanks so much . I will practice my stance and a tinkly laugh.
our ds always comes with his lovely mates for a week in the summer. No doubt there will be an issue about that. But they are charming, helpful, and buy fish and chips .
Will think about how to deal with this as it may be oh well so we can do it too.
in the meantime, we are going to have so many things planned and back up measures . The prep has started ! Tinkly laugh on tap . Thank you .

Op you have some good strategies here.
Why would there'be an issue over D's freinds staying?

Surely the end game here is your daughter bf pulls his finger out.

You need to ... whether you sledgehammer him and risk the relationship all around or by subtle measures get him to help out... perhaps ££ chip in and be more generous.

So if your new strategies get him to do this...what's problem with hosting him?
He's newly helpful, understands what you want and DD and he are happy? Isn't that the end goal?

If he again doesn't do anything it's very clear you say " yes..his friends often buy us a meal and help out around the house sonits not such hard work for us ."..

Who could argue?

Dd invited .. and the next am there was a suggestion of they wd like to stay. I must admit that i was taken aback and embarrassed.

Apologies if I’ve missed this, but did DD actually invite his parents without checking with you first? Did she put you on the spot by asking you if they could come when her BF was around?

Either way, your dd has behaved very badly. Along with her letting her BF dump his clothes by the washer and her not speaking to BF about him and his parents making a contribution to food and drinks, she is not behaving with the values you have instilled in her. It could be that this is his influence, but please don’t overlook dd’s behaviour and focus solely on him.

Hmm. I don't think i agree that the key issue here is OP not being taken the piss out of in her own home. I also think that making DD feel unwelcome makes it more easy for him to drive a wedge - "Your parents don't like you do they?" - and that she will become angry and dig in.

I think the critical thing is to teach DD to have good boundaries and to see, and then challenge, misogyny wherever it is.

So (in addition to the strats i mentioned above) I think that you should have him back but, again, model good boundaries, right out in the open. So don't serve him food he doesn't like or any underhand stuff - tell him outright what your values are and how you live them. "Right, DH and my NY resolution was to make sure this is an equal opportunity household - so BF, it's your turn to wash up tonight. DD, your turn tomorrow. We've got X for dinner so BF you peel the carrots, I'll do the pots, Dad'll do the meat and DD you can do gravy. We're starting prep at 7pm- no prep, no eat haha!"

THEN you can do the tinkly laugh you have been practising

Good post @poefaced.

OP, slowlywalk us through the actual invite please.

It is critical indeed.

I taught my 5 year old children not to spring a playdate on me as I would say "I'll get back to you" ...followed by No.

My 5 years old got the message.

Did SHE spring it on YOU?

If she did, I would be far firmer in my message.

If he did, I would also be very firm.

Her boyfriend does not get to offer up your home as free respite.

It is all CF territory.

Remember your home, your choice.

Your daughter no longer lives at home, she is visiting too.

It is perfectly reasonable to feel under no obligation to explain long held arrangements as to who visits your home.

When you're explaining, you are losing.

I am a mug to my children a lot of the time, with a steel spine that they know not try to bend.

You need to find that steel.
Her stories of you, may be that you are kind, soft, open housed mugs!!

Anyway, please clarify @poe'S question?

And OP, your DD hasn't behaved badly. She's behaved like a young woman in an abusive relationship, which is what she is.

She needs your help or it will go on happening - either with this abusive man or the next.

You've been lucky, I think, to find your DH - it might have been just the same for you.

OP, some good advice on this thread. Re your son visiting with mates. I’d encourage DD and boyfriend to come at the same time, so she can see differences in behaviour and he may get challenged by some if his peers.

they sound young, a few years out of university. I’d take the relationship less seriously if I were you, and encourage DD to do the same.

to visit without him, to do other stuff for herself without him. Encourage it as they’re young and have plenty of time.

i did meet my DH until I was 30. We still did Xmas separately him with his family I with mine, until we had children of our own.

why are they acting and are you accepting them like a long term married couple (and a co dependent one) so young and early on?

id talk to her more generally about that, need to continue to pursue her own interests, friendships, life behind this relationship.

society still strongly encourages young women to be in stable relationships.

but by accepting it so unquestioningly, so are you.

id talk to her after Xmas about the poor behaviour from his family (and him) that you won’t host them again.

but also ask how it was for her. Did she find it awkward/ stressful? I’d let her know in laws can often be tricky and you’ve realised there’s no need to rush in and get too close too quickly.

suggest that next year maybe she comes for Xmas just her and he goes to his family (seeing as they can’t be without him).

start planning a family weekend or holiday which will be just your kids and you (and another where friends and partners are invited). Create some new patterns that have better boundaries than ‘take whatever you want’.

honestly I find it amazing you extended an invite to his family without being v clear when they were leaving. And then if any side of backsliding starting the day before:

’as it’s your last day today, what would you like to do? Tomorrow, we need to wave you off by lunchtime but can suggest some places for lunch on your journey’

you need to model some clearer boundaries for your DD. You’d at you pride yourself on your generous hosting. But have you considered too much of that is people pleasing?

Let's hope B/F doesn't see her phone if that was sent.

winterdewinter

Agree .make sure he does things and helps out .We did ask him on this stay to do something i find hard . He said oh i will do it tomorrow and didn't!
He appears to be trying to be top dog with my dh ( and we will address it .. someone on this thread said that as he rules the roost in his parents home, he may be attempting to establish power here , either consciously or otherwise .
My prediction is he could use these requests for help as an opportunity to decline again … and show he is boss. .. but we will insist.

He has also made loaded comments about
my dh being not as manly . Little comments ..My dh responded so very well ,in that the macho way is not the only way . ( when he said “my father would “my dh spoke of handling things well etc )

As for dd inviting them.. it was all a bit vague. They want to come and be with him. it was my fault there .. I didn't establish the boundary. But then Ive never needed to before ,and it took me by surprise. Lesson learnt .

Op.... just be open!
Say, it's a different life here, we don't care much for macho stuff....and if he doesn't do something just ask again.

Bob.... could you help blah, but it does need to be done tonight!

Manage him.

"Haha nice try BF - seriously, though, I'm not asking, I'm telling. This is how we do things here - we're a team not a service, and there are no exceptions for anyone who wants to eat/have a nice bed to sleep in/hang out in our lovely house. Come on in, the 21st century's lovely / future you will thank us / your arse is wearing a hole in the sofa.

Don't look at him if you're not used to meeting someone's eye while asserting yourself: busy yourself with loading the dishwasher or whatever but say it loudly to the room.

Perhaps it would also help to think through what your worst fears are and prep for them. For eg. he says an outright 'No', you say 'BF, I know you are quite big on respect - you must know that we can't possibly allow you to disrespect our family's values like this here in our own home. Of course, you'll be welcome back whenever you're able to show us the respect you owe your hosts."

And what you will say to DD if she storms off with him, which she may well do.

again, such great guidance. Thank you . ..
feel my confidence been knocked by this and its so great to have this back up .

We do plan to prepare a bit . For eg we are due a couple of holidays this year In England , and if we can afford abroad later in the year and we need to find reasons for rhe empty house not to be utilised ( shame as would love dd to get a cost free holoday in out home )..

@Duvetdaysaregood is there is actually a good reason for you not to give DD that gift? The fact that you're considering this makes me think that you haven't actually seen the big picture. It's really not about getting one over on him, or 'tough love' or not being taken the piss out of in your own home or any of that bollocks.

Your focus needs to be on showing DD (and yourselves) that you can enforce boundaries (when you are there to do so), and that misogynist values are not tolerated.

When you're not there to do that, well - you can't do it. Just like when she is in her own house and you're not. So let that go. You're not interested in tit for tat, 'making a stand', 'showing him who's boss'. You're interested in not having a DD who falls in love with abusive men. The big picture

Letting them stay there might be something that prevents him saying "your parents don't like us." (Note that he will increasingly use 'us')

By 'that gift' I meant them having a holiday in your home when you are away - sorry if that wasn't clear.

i see what uou mean but given that he has snooped in out bedroom we , at present at least, do not feel comfortable with the idea .

Understood. But you could mention that too.
Honestly I think once you start to call him out, he will crumble. These men are just pastiches of what a 'real man' looks like.

Winter deWinter . Yes , you are right .. will keep calling him out . Thank you !