Mumsnet and Christmas *title edited by MNHQ*

[CheshireKitten123]

Am I the only person who is sick to death of reading all these posts from Mumsnet women who are tying themselves in knots trying to please everyone , husbands, DCs , stepchildren. exHs, inlaws etc. cooking Xmas dinners to take elsewhere, inviting people you can't stand the sight of, getting involved with toxic family and extended family dynamics.
For your own sanity please stop, and use the word 'NO'

I’m 46 and I’m like this,even down to taking parcels in for neighbors I’ve never met or had a conversation with because I feel bad for the delivery person!! My wonderful daughter (25) is slowly teaching me that I don’t have to please everyone else,even her own Father and I don’t have to be liked by everyone. I have taught her what I should have been taught but I don’t practice it.(I’m trying)

I just don't associate with it all. I feel alien to a lot of those posts on those kind of threads. I find it easy to say no, Christmas is not stressful.

Dh has just text to say he got almost everything on the Christmas food shopping list, that the 4 of us made in the lounge last night. He's a much better food shop and then I am, he always returns with nearly everything, plus loads of little treats, titbits, and new things that none of us have ever heard of, and it all works out perfectly.

Sometimes major accidents happen to people. Not their fault. Out of their control. But those other threads, sometimes there's only drama in peoples lives, because they want it that way.

@georgarina I think you nailed it there. It's not just about mumsnet women, it's about the role and expectations of women in many societies around the world.

@Oblomov21

Mumsnet brings in more martyrs, and chronic anxiety, snd no backbone, than I see in RL.

Exactly

I agree OP.

Most of the time it's like reading something from a 1950s agony aunt column.

It's 2021 !

Thankfully I don't know any of these women in real life.

I also despair at how people who are hard up spend up so much.

Yesterday on a thread bout money (not having much) one poster said she put aside £500 for birthday and Xmas for her DC (young child)

I'm shocked.

We would be considered wealthy by MN standards and have never ever spent that amount on presents for anyone.

I can't believe how women feel under pressure to spend that kind of money when they dont have it- or struggle.

it's insane.

Tbf, most women engage in a lot of unnecessary running around because they want the sort of Xmas they want. Typically men and children couldn't care less about a lot of the aspects women stress themselves over. As long as there's food, presents and a decent atmosphere, usually only the woman concerned cares about the peripheral stuff. While I agree women tend to work very hard under pressure, I would question whether other people actually want or expect them to, or even appreciate much if it.

@MrJollyLivesNextDoor

I think some people must love being martyrs

Totally, I've thought this since I was in my early 20s - even before. My mum was and is a bit of a martyr and does things for "friends" who never recipriocate. I also had a live-in landlady for a year when I was a post-graduate student who I thought was a martyr too. And SIL is a martyr too, not only looking after MIL who is house-bound but now also a neighbour down the road.

A healthy dose of selfishness does not go amiss in creating a decent work-life balance for mothers.

Many women have been conditioned to believe they can't say no if it means disappointing others well the de-conditioning starts here

I'd also say to young women or ones without DC yet, think very carefully about the traditions you establish when its all fresh and you're enthusiastic. Everything is getting very complex, with new requirements added, elf on the shelf, Xmas eve boxes, masses if outdoor decorations...
You don't need to buy into all that. Keep it simple and people's expectations low.

@JuergenSchwarzwald

Totally agree with your final sentence. We’ve all identified the source of the issue - now what are we going to do about it?

@CheshireKitten123

Am I the only person who is sick to death of reading all these posts from Mumsnet women who are tying themselves in knots trying to please everyone , husbands, DCs , stepchildren. exHs, inlaws etc. cooking Xmas dinners to take elsewhere, inviting people you can't stand the sight of, getting involved with toxic family and extended family dynamics. For your own sanity please stop, and use the word 'NO'

Where would you like your Order of Superiority sent?

We live in patriarchal and misogynistic society. Its hardly surprising if one of the larger women centred forums includes many women experiencing the arse end of it.

Instead of targeting those on the sharp end of misogyny, what are you doing to challenge the premise which creates it?

I spend a considerable amount of time and effort here encouraging women not to bow to that pressure, not to play along with the narrative, not to even begin down the mummy martyrdom path, not to throw away their own identity once they have a child, not to feel that they must bend over backwards for everyone else all the time in every aspect to the detriment of their own needs and wants.

I’m very aware of the ills of female socialisation and the tendency of many to perpetuate those instead of breaking that link in their own lives because it’s just too difficult for them to fight it. I make allowances for that, a lot.

But I can only do so much. And last night I did think, do you know what, I’m not going to do it anymore. Time to follow my own advice and disengage - it’s not my job to fix everything for everyone else. At some point it becomes an utterly futile and useless endeavour, particularly at this time of year when the motivations to play one’s part in a certain dynamic are far too strong for some people to fight, no matter how much they might want things to be different. So they’ll moan and whinge and rant and vent, because that’s what we all do when we feel trapped. But I don’t actually have to read it.

I’m going to enjoy my own Christmas with DH and my girls, as is my first responsibility.

Happy Christmas all!🎄🎄🎄

@5128gap

I'd also say to young women or ones without DC yet, think very carefully about the traditions you establish when its all fresh and you're enthusiastic. Everything is getting very complex, with new requirements added, elf on the shelf, Xmas eve boxes, masses if outdoor decorations... You don't need to buy into all that. Keep it simple and people's expectations low.

It seems to have got hideously overly complicated in the 18 or so years since I had my first DC.

Elf on shelf, boxes on Xmas Eve (more bloody stuff, more junk food ) - none of this was a thing when my DC were small. Fuck that nonsense!! I blame social media and people’s addiction to it.

A tree, a few presents, good food, zero pressure.

So many people say the OP is privileged. Or maybe the OP has had their own share of shit and finally said no more?

I agree it's one of those things that when you're in the thick of it, you don't see it for what it really is. I'm also 'fortunate' that I learned my lessons with family when I was young before I had my own children and said 'Nope'. People tell me I have it easy. Nah I had it hard and I got the hell out.

C8

"Instead of targeting those on the sharp end of misogyny, what are you doing to challenge the premise which creates it?"

Flagging it up here for starters.

and recommending this book;

www.amazon.co.uk/Woman-Your-Own-Right-Assertiveness/dp/0704334208?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Morning. We understand why folk want to have this discussion and there are some compelling posts on the thread itself. That said, the thread title isn't particularly in the spirit or helpful - Mumsnet is here to make parents' lives easier after all. So for that reason, we're going to take the thread down now.

Peace and love.

My DH usually cooks Xmas Dinner. This is the only involvement he normally has in Christmas. Usually all the kids presents are more of as much a surprise to him when they open them as they are to the kids. Often I get money as a present as he apparently hasn't had time to shop. We normally have 2 or 3 sets of family to stay so I tidy and clean the house, make up spare beds etc and get in food that everyone likes.
This year another family member is hosting. He said "this will be the first time in x years I haven't cooked Christmas dinner". I corrected and said its the first year we haven't hosted Christmas. He honestly couldn't see there is a difference!

I agree it’s frustrating when women can't say no and/or bring extra work on themselves, but I’ve been there. I agree that women are socialised to expect to do everything and not say no to anyone and it’s hard to break out of. I have now but I’m 50-something. I had to burn some big boats with family members and leave my ex to escape from these expectations.

But I don’t agree this is a “mumsnet women” thing. Some women on here are doing this, many others are the ones who show them that it’s sexist shite and help them to find their courage. Same with abusive or unequal relationships, exploitative or discriminatory workplaces, etc.

@LivMumsnet I'm very disappointed that you would do this. If the title is so bad, why not just edit that? Has it really come to something that we're not allowed to be critical of other posters' behaviour? Do we have to promote the view that women - especially when we're mothers - have to be have in a certain way to keep other family members happy?

I agree, and this is an important topic that it will help many women to see openly discussed, as per the best mn tradition. Just edit the tile.

[quote BIWI]@LivMumsnet I'm very disappointed that you would do this. If the title is so bad, why not just edit that? Has it really come to something that we're not allowed to be critical of other posters' behaviour? Do we have to promote the view that women - especially when we're mothers - have to be have in a certain way to keep other family members happy?[/quote]
Absolutely agree. I can’t believe this thread is to be taken down! People have different opinions, there’s no personal attack, what the hell is “not in the spirit”??

I don’t think you should take it down.

You can edit the title just as easily.

For me, it's come with age and experience, I wouldn't put up with stuff now I dealt with (Christmas arrangements specifically but also other stuff) when I was married and that came from getting into a pattern when I was young and inexperienced and intimidated by my Inlaws.

Since my divorce I'm really good at saying no when it's important, I still pick my battles, but when it's important I stand my ground. Christmas with DP is very much on my terms, but with compromise where his DC are concerned.

My key learning is to support DD when her time comes and to help her to manage Inlaws and other family members.

I think I'm a rarity on mumsnet. I actually love spending time with my extended family 🤷‍♀️ not a bellend in sight (thus far!)

And actually I find the subtext if you’re all being so mean, why aren’t you being kiiiiind rather ironic. Talk about female socialisation.