Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Christmas

From present ideas to party food, find all your Christmas inspiration here.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Mumsnet and Christmas *title edited by MNHQ*

169 replies

CheshireKitten123 · 21/12/2021 23:06

Am I the only person who is sick to death of reading all these posts from Mumsnet women who are tying themselves in knots trying to please everyone , husbands, DCs , stepchildren. exHs, inlaws etc. cooking Xmas dinners to take elsewhere, inviting people you can't stand the sight of, getting involved with toxic family and extended family dynamics.
For your own sanity please stop, and use the word 'NO'

OP posts:
MrsLarry · 22/12/2021 07:00

@CheshireKitten123

Am I the only person who is sick to death of reading all these posts from Mumsnet women who are tying themselves in knots trying to please everyone , husbands, DCs , stepchildren. exHs, inlaws etc. cooking Xmas dinners to take elsewhere, inviting people you can't stand the sight of, getting involved with toxic family and extended family dynamics. For your own sanity please stop, and use the word 'NO'
But they won't, because the majority of them enjoy playing the martyr.
nadgersbadgers · 22/12/2021 07:03

@CheshireKitten123 the Mumsnet martyrdome is real.

I literally couldn't do it.

Say no to the stuff that's not going to bring you joy. Life is too short to waste it feeling crap.

UniversalAunt · 22/12/2021 07:12

Oh my, this is where the lovely sensible people hang out - early hours MN.

So much good sense here & if there were a MN like button, I’d be dinging it to bits.

Quite the uplifting start to XDay-3… the gently spiced countdown.

Flowers @Mummyoflittledragon

IcedAbstinente · 22/12/2021 07:14

@Cam2020

Instead of being so mean about these women, just be grateful you've had the opportunity to learn to be more assertive yourselves.

Many women have been conditioned to believe they can't say no if it means disappointing others.

I really agree with this. It took me almost 40 years to get to that point. Thankfully, some really terrible behaviour saw me grow a backbone and look out for myself, regardless of what others thought and I've never looked back. Some women need to post here to realise that they can if fact, say 'no'.

I agree with this. My mother martyred herself and basically taught me that unless you were a doormat no-one would like you or be your friend. Your worth was dependant on how much you could serve others.

I am nearly 50 now and there is a huge element of that in me still. I have enough nous to understand how those expectations have crippled her emotionally. She would prioritise those who expected her to enslave herself (her mother and siblings) over those who actually needed her - my dad, me and my siblings. However it is still something that is so deeply entrenched inside me that I find it hard to step away from that in my own life.

As I get older I have started to put my foot down on some things. I refuse to write a christmas card for example to my DH's relative who has refused to acknowledge my existence for the 20 years I have been with him because I am a different religion from DH. This very year I have finally told my DH that a certain friend of his who has really used our goodwill shamlessly is no longer welcome to step foot in my home. (This is quite abig deal because the entitled friend has invited himself to stay for 8-10 days a year for the past 18 years as it is convenient for him. His behaviour over the years has become increasingly objectionable and I have finally put my foot down).

It's about doing away with really entrenched beliefs about yourself and your place in the world. if you are brought up to believe that you have absolutely no value except for what you can do for others then you replicate that over and over again. You probably have absolutely no idea that this is what you are doing.

rwalker · 22/12/2021 07:18

I think there a massive chunk for who it's a race to the bottom. On some post the replies become like top trumps ,trying to out do each other as who's most hard done by .

CharityDingle · 22/12/2021 07:18

As I get older I have started to put my foot down on some things. I refuse to write a christmas card for example to my DH's relative who has refused to acknowledge my existence for the 20 years I have been with him because I am a different religion from DH. This very year I have finally told my DH that a certain friend of his who has really used our goodwill shamlessly is no longer welcome to step foot in my home. (This is quite abig deal because the entitled friend has invited himself to stay for 8-10 days a year for the past 18 years as it is convenient for him. His behaviour over the years has become increasingly objectionable and I have finally put my foot down).

Well done you, on both counts. I think sometimes as we get a bit older we start to think wtf and realise actually we don't have to put up with crap.

UniversalAunt · 22/12/2021 07:24

Actually(!) Brew & Cake to all of you, that’s a gently spiced Vienna grind & a torn chunk of pannetone…

Not yet had coffee so cognitive gears not yet grinding to comment, but just enough ticking over to sprinkle some festive appreciation.

OMG12 · 22/12/2021 07:26

Gives them something to moan about at the school gates

Mouseonmychair · 22/12/2021 07:32

Perhaps it is part of their role in the family home to entertain people they really don't want to especially if they are a non employed parent. If that is the case and she doesn't want to provide catering perhaps the man might not want his in laws in the house he has provided through his earning.

florentina1 · 22/12/2021 07:38

I am set up for a really good Christmas now. Last week’s lunch guests had to cancel. DH tested positive yesterday, so Christmas Day guest will be cancelled along with our visit to Boxing Day relatives.

I love all of these people, but, having fallen into the Matriarch role i have been unable to tell them how I really want to spend Christmas. The main reason is that their invites and visits come from a place of love.

Ylvamoon · 22/12/2021 07:50

To me Christmas became a more relaxed nuclear family affair when DD was about 4. First she could not decide which toy to take to my inlaws... then said toy was broken by older cousin (it was an accident but still!).
Now, we see family on Christmas eve / boxing day and take it in turns to host on these days. The good thing is, one is snacks and drinks and the other a light lunch!

GoodnightGrandma · 22/12/2021 08:01

@Lesina

I started to say No a long time ago. It’s bloody marvellous. Highly recommend it.
Me too.
woodlandarchitect · 22/12/2021 08:03

Just say no!

Also, Christmas dinner is just a roast dinner. If it goes wrong every year swap the “problem” for a something easy. I.e Chicken instead of turkey. What’s the big Christmas Dinner drama all about? I don’t get it.

But then I’m autistic and maybe I’ll just never understand why a roast dinner causes so many family breakdowns! Confused

MissyB1 · 22/12/2021 08:10

Sometimes women are just stuck in a certain situation, they might not always be, but just for now it is what it is. And they need to vent and ask for support.
Women are still the ones who are expected to take emotional responsibility for all the family, “making everyone happy”. It’s not that easy to just stop.
I intend to do Christmas very differently next year because my family circumstances will have altered slightly, even so it’s going to be very hard and I will feel a lot of guilt.

PupInAPram · 22/12/2021 08:11

Bit reductive that OP.

roastedsaltedpeanut · 22/12/2021 08:18

My aunty is a woman like that. I am eternally grateful to her. Without her efforts I would have never had the chance to have the experience. Both my parents were workaholics and would have NEVER bothered with all this faff. Sometimes they didn’t even show up. They’ve simply drop me off at my aunty’s.
I am aware sometimes things got nasty and aunty was under a lot of stress to pull it through. But all of the children (now grown up) all have such respect and love for her as she was such a fundamental part of our childhood memories.
If she had decided to post on MN on how amazingly well she did then good on her! She deserves to brag about it after all that effort. I would hate to see someone belittle her effort and call her a martyr.

MrsLarry · 22/12/2021 08:22

I've noticed that all the women I've known who've martyred themselves in this way have been desperate for attention. Often because they actually have an unhappy marriage/life and won't change anything.

I worked with one who moaned constantly about how everyone was putting on her - but she continued to offer to do things for these people who she alleged were putting on her. They didn't ask - she offered. Then she'd go all woe be me and her work colleagues would shower her with attention. Then the whole scenario would start again....over and over again.

rrhuth · 22/12/2021 08:22

I agree that I see many people doing more for others than seems healthy or enjoyable.

But the reasosn are varied and complex, including but not only:

  • having been brought up in the idea that women make things happen for others
  • being in a situation where not complying is dangerous
  • not being able to see what is happening
  • having no energy to fight this

I think it is unhelpful to judge too harshly, I consider myself pretty un-martyr-ish, and I still sometimes think 'wtf did I agree to that?'

Everyone is a work in progress.

BigGreen · 22/12/2021 08:22

Such great wisdom here. My mum was trapped by the poison of family expectations and social pressure. But she was also prone to explosive bouts of bad temper and Christmas as a kid was a delightful affair one minute and the next you were in trouble for something you didn't even understand.

I try to be different for my kids - better to have a more casual Christmas that's actually enjoyed. Mum did rehabilitate herself in the end too and stopped giving a fuck. She's (understandably) cancelled due to covid and we're all gutted!

MrsLarry · 22/12/2021 08:24

Then there's the ones who go off and do things off their own back and then whine about it afterwards. We'll stop bloody doing it then! 😂

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 22/12/2021 08:29

@ChristmasLightsAndSparkles

You are absolutely right Slythermum, and I'm sorry you find yourself getting dumped on so much. A lifetime of conditioning along with strong, punitive ongoing social pressure is very hard to resist.

It's depressing, but unfortunately it's actually a form of privilege (linked to family background, but separate) for a woman not to be treated as a support human. Like all privilege, those who have it don't realise - or appreciate the impact on those who don't.

Totally agree with this. The fact that we not only have all of this expectation dumped on us but are then actually judged by other women for not being able to snap our fingers and shrug off a life time of indoctrination and conditioning is frankly the shitty cherry on the shitty cake. Men are raised to find putting their own needs first very easy, women are raised to find it very hard, and then we get criticised for not being more like men. It's not on.
BoudecaBains · 22/12/2021 08:30

My husband loves "Bake-Off" and " Master Chef" so he really goes for it on Christmas day and altho this will be the second year I'll be working he never appears to be tying himself in knots or stressed or exhausted or in search of his sanity. Perhaps he's doing it wrong ?.

EmmaWoodhousestreehouse · 22/12/2021 08:30

Good to see the women blaming is still occurring.

With the best will in the world, none of us know what pressures other women are under when it comes to Christmas. It helps no one to put the blame firmly on the shoulder of the family member who most likely is frazzled at best before Christmas planning even starts.

Do the husbands and partners not carry any responsibility for the decision making around Christmas plans.

georgarina · 22/12/2021 08:33

What's wrong with them is they're conditioned that their own needs are wrong/selfish/hysterical/unreasonable and the right and fair thing is to put everyone else's needs above their own. They're taught not to trust their own judgment/perception and to do as they're told instead.

I've been there. I'm still angry about it.

Putting up these posts is asking for confirmation that they can trust their instincts and stand up for themselves.

TheQuietChristmas · 22/12/2021 08:35

Sometimes there are lots of things in the mix. It is not just about being a martyr.

It took me till 50 to learn to say no. On one hand I am a very assertive person, on the other I have things going on.

For example. I have no support network. My mum died when I was young and my dad remarried. At times I have had to bite my tongue, capitulate etc. because I felt I would have no parent if I didn't.

WRT my in-laws. I have a weak DH,. a bullying MIL, a very selfish SIL and an enabling FIL who gaslit me every time I stood up for myself. I used to think it must be me who was BU.

Now I am older, have more confidence, realised I am in the right I no longer do things for them, but I got a lot of pushback from it and apparently I am in the wrong. The difference is, I no longer care.