Dh won't lie about Father Christmas

[lazycow]

That's it really. He says he refuses to lie to ds for something that is purely recreational even in an indirect way and has suggested we say something along the lines of

'Everybody plays a game at Christmas where they pretend Santa Claus exists so we can play too etc..'

I have some sympathy with this view actually as I don't like lying to ds either but this seems to be a bit TOO PC for my liking. I suppose I remember the excitement of waiting for the Santa delivery on Christmas eve and would like ds to have that.

As dh says though a lot of the lying about Father Christmas is because adults enjoy watching the result so in a lot of ways we are lying to our children for our own pleasure.

As ds is only 2 this year I'm sure we can skirt the issue with 'Let's put the stocking up and see if any presents arrive' without mentioning who brings them but next year I think will be different. Although I can see dh's point I can't help feeling disappointed and that somehow ds will miss out.

Does anyone else tell their children that Father Christmas doesn't exist from the beginning and if so do your kids still love Christmas and get excited about it?

at vanilla

maybe this is the crux for me

actually harsh truth is better than a lie, I feel.

The other side to it is that I can't imagine even my 3 yo being rude enough to "enlighten" any other kids. In fact, I can see him now, he'd say "oh, really, thats very interesting, I see.". And nod.

Christmas is not about what adults want. So he feels uncomfortable? Why is that a good enough reason to wreck a child's Christmas?

If he hasn't got enough imaginatio0on to relate properly to children, instead of trying to make them think like adults, then he should butt out and leave Christmas to you.

Message withdrawn

Blimey

Sorry - I haven't read all of this but I cannot understand why anyone would want to deny children the magic of Santa/FC or whatever. How bloody damn selfish. Children are not as logical as adults. I "knew" for ages that SC wasn't real but convinced myself as without that belife Xmas just wasn't the same.

Unless we were of a religon that didn't celebrate Xmas we have all gorwn up with Santa/FC (or we had bloody weird PC parents).

It is not lying. It is introducing a bit of magic. FFS why not?

I have to say that this thread has annoyed me more than any other thread on MN.

Because, selfishly, she might live round the corner from me and if her child tells my child that santa is a lie I will be heartbroken. I imagine this is true wherever she lives.

It reminds me of people who know all t6he answers to trivvial pursuit, they could just shut up, but that type of person never will, and so they wreck the game for everyone else.

My kids don't believe in FC, I told them from day one that he doesn't exist. Christmas is just as magical for them as it is for any kid, the only difference is that they don't write bloody lists of presents they want, they don't ask for anything really, they just enjoy the whole thing, the tree; family; sweeties; carols; staying up late on Christmas eve; the Christmas service and visiting baby Jesus in the crib; everything!

You don't need what was once a Coca Cola advert to make Christmas special you know!

Message withdrawn

Oh and dd knows that the other kids believe in FC and I've told her that it's up to their mummys and daddys to tell them about FC or not. She does join in their conversations about him, but she says afterwards that she knows he isn't real, she was just being nice to the other kids!

am getting off this thread now

its kind of upset me

I really object to the implication that those of us who don't. for whatever reason, wish to tell out kids that santa exists are a. weird, b. socially irresponsible c. curmugeonly

anyway. I shall leave before being stoned out of town.

colditz. You put this on a par with irritating smart arses?!

I really don't get this 'you better not spoil it for my kid' thing. How many children do your dcs socialise with? How much do you know about their home lives? There could be all sorts of reasons why a child does not believe - from older siblings, to difficult home lives, to religion, to parental viewpoint.

And the thing is, most kids shrug it off if someone does tell them anyway. It's not true, dammit. Tell them what you want but they're gonna find out at some point and that isn't really anyone's fault 'cause it's not true!

Message withdrawn

I would be so p'eed off if another child let my child know that FC wasn't real. Hats off to those of you that are PC and assume that your child won't let the cat out of the bag.

Cannot understand what harm it does to allow your children some magic.

I am not remotely offended by this thread. It is very bizarre. Bonkers in the nut.

Message withdrawn

Jeez!

CHRISTMAS IS NOT JUST ABOUT FATHER CHRISTMAS YOU KNOW! He is a bloody advert and he encourages kids to want and want and want and want and he wears a stupid wankerish suit and he badly needs a haircut, shave and wash! In fact, if he looked more like George Clooney I might be prepared to tell my kids about him!

For those worried about letting the cat out of the bag, come on! Get real! Do you really think that you will be the first person to tell your kids that Santa isn't real? Kids at school tell dd that God doesn't exist, does that bother me? No!

Magic? We have plenty of it thank you! I don't have to rely on an overstuffed Coca Cola can to provide magic for my kids thankyouverymuch!

But where is the harm in allowing your child to believe in the magic of SC (the magic that MOST children believe)?

Yes, and that is fine and well and good, but it will still spoil a child's christmas, because that's what christmas is in some families. I wouldn't tell my child that Jesus isn't real, he might go round telling a dedicated Christian's children that Jesus isn't real. But how do we know he is any realer than Santa? There isn't any proff, just belief. I would never let my child question someone elses religion, and in return I don't expect anyone to question the beliefs my child holds until he is of an age to question them himself.

oh and

a. what the feck has this got to do with being PC? I mean...what ffs?

b. um...if you guys want your kids to believe in santa that while longer...maybe a good idea to watch the thread titles there? just a thought

c. well said socci. There are good reasons to lie to your kids, eg "no, thats not the last few precious bars of mummy's delicious chocolate, its horrible horrible medicine". "Because other people do and my kid isn't polite enough not to break their bubble" is not one of them

There you go then! I don't expect my child to go around telling other kids that FC is a load of crap either! She would get into trouble if she did.

But excuse me if I point out that Jesus did come before the burglar in the red suit, and believe in him or not, I think his Christmas message is far more poignant than the Playstation25 or whatever.

You tell your kids what you want, and I'll tell mine what I want! Where's the argument?

Unless your child happens to be the first in the whole village/town/city to work out that FC doesn't exist, then there are going to be other children around him or her who know it's made up. Why are you singling out the parents of those who've never believed for particular opprobium?

IME it's the kids who did believe but have only just found out the truth who are most likely to spread their new-found knowledge around, while parents who've raised their children not believing in FC tend to have the general manners to also raise them not to tell other children. Because, as it happens, they aren't joyless or mean-minded.

In Iceland there are thirteen Father Christmases. I think you are all selfish, mean-minded and joyless for denying your children twelve of them. How can you be so thoughtless as to deprive them of 92.3% of the magic of Christmas? Rant, rant, blah, blah. Or is it just possible that whatever the mythical and cultural context that parents choose to provide for their children Christmas can be a magical time of year whether you believe in thirteen Father Christmases or none?

Message withdrawn

I couldn't give two hoots about what other people tell their kids, but I disagree with it being capital L Lying!

Plus, depending on the age of the kid lots of kids believe what they see on tv is real... well at least according to Child of Our Time, I can't personally vouch for this!

BudaBeast, if you do actually get round to reading the thread, (as you acknowledge you haven';t!) you might find that question answered
And that most of us saying you don't need to keep up an elaborate pretense in real belief DO believe in 'the magic of the imagination'.

Colditz - you said
"Christmas is not about what adults want."

Then you said -
"if her child tells my child that santa is a lie I will be heartbroken"

You and so many other people on this thread are really saying thet you want your children to believe, that it really matters to you that thay do, not to them. So the OP's DH is no worse than you, is he?

Each to their own, but hasn't it ever occured to some of you that if you didn't set up your children to believe in FC so fervently, they wouldn't be in for such a shock and you wouldn't have to worry about the children of dreadful PC parents telling them?