Dh won't lie about Father Christmas

[lazycow]

That's it really. He says he refuses to lie to ds for something that is purely recreational even in an indirect way and has suggested we say something along the lines of

'Everybody plays a game at Christmas where they pretend Santa Claus exists so we can play too etc..'

I have some sympathy with this view actually as I don't like lying to ds either but this seems to be a bit TOO PC for my liking. I suppose I remember the excitement of waiting for the Santa delivery on Christmas eve and would like ds to have that.

As dh says though a lot of the lying about Father Christmas is because adults enjoy watching the result so in a lot of ways we are lying to our children for our own pleasure.

As ds is only 2 this year I'm sure we can skirt the issue with 'Let's put the stocking up and see if any presents arrive' without mentioning who brings them but next year I think will be different. Although I can see dh's point I can't help feeling disappointed and that somehow ds will miss out.

Does anyone else tell their children that Father Christmas doesn't exist from the beginning and if so do your kids still love Christmas and get excited about it?

Blu, I believed absolutely and implicitly in Father Christmas until I was about 6 or 7. After that I had my doubts, but carried on because it was magical, and I wanted it to be true.

But up to that point he was totally real to me.

If my parents had told me at the age of three or four that he categorically did not exist, I would have been devastated.

I don't think my post was particularly strongly worded (although I do have a strong emotional response to this topic), but I apologise for using the term 'brigade'.

my mother used to quell the rising doubts as we got older by saying "If you talk like that you'll rub the magic off Christmas!".

I have told my children Father Christmas brings the presents. DS1 believes it, hook line and sinker. I do find it magical and exciting and couldn't care less that it's a fib.

DC: it could well be a bloke thng: DP once said (and he was JOKING...can I repeat this?...JOKING) "What? lets some white guy take the credit for a month's salarys' worth of presents?!"

What possible motive could anyone have for wanting to cause confusion in children by conspiring to make them believe in a mythical figure for a few years.I can understand the op dilemma but this DC really is ridiculous!

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well like many having children has brought the magic totally back into christmas for me. But I'll tell you why I still believe in FC.. for when I was about 10 I asked my mum whether he was real.. and she said yes. But then carried on saying that he WAS real, but all that lives on is now a tradition and that when you become a parent you BECOME father christmas and the make believe is all part of the fun.
I love that, and I also think that is true and that is what I will say to ds1 when he gets to that point. Sure someone must have said it somehow as well but just nodding along!
Oh, and I found out about the tooth fairy by finding all my teeth in a little pot in my mums bedside drawer and I have kept them ever since
I like everyones response to this, its nice to read everyones views on it.

What a miserable git your hubbie is. Santa is all part of the magic of Christmas. Why spoil it at such a young age. ITs not a lie anyway you are just creating a fantasy. Kids grow up too soon.

My ds is 5 at Christmas and im dreading the time when he finds out that its not santa but us!!

SANTA RULES

BooBoo - yes, sorry - 'brigade' is a mn phenomenum that gets straight up my nose - very unreasonably, I'm sure!

i down play it a bit
you lto are mad

Blu - I don't like the term 'brigade' either. It is inflammatory - so I meant the sorry.

Only excuse: I'm pregnant and hormonal, and cross with DH. Letting off steam on MN tonight.

He's not a miserable git. That's harsh.
He has problems with lying to his child.
I on the other hand am a firm believer that a white lie is often the best option.
Telling the truth in all situations is not necessary IMO. And people who don't believe in EVER lying can be quite rude.

I think the distinction between being 'economical with the truth' and 'lying' is an important one to learn. And I have no problem with allowing this particular white lie to continue.

I don't think it's miserable not believing in Santa. Unless I'm a culturally dead miserable git too. My kids adore Christmas. And what really pisses me off at this time of year (and it's only November) is all the people who get really fussed about their child having to believe in Santa but 'don't mention the nativity, we don't want our child indoctrinated'. Seems weird.

And anyone worrying about people telling your child he doesn't exist, it works the other way - ds1 is always being asked 'is Santa coming to your house?'. Never mind that he knows the presents are from us, he doesn't want a strange man sliding down the chimney when he's asleep in bed. That's a burglar in his mind.

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I was on this thread this afternoon and there are a million more posts since then which I haven't read.

However, I noticed a few people saying they hate it when people say 'you must be good or Santa won't bring you presents'. Well, as I said earlier that doesn't make a jot of difference to my gloriously badly behaved children. BUT, that's part of the whole thing to me. I don't think it seriously damages their self esteem or whatever. It's even in the song i 'sung' earlier in the thread.

It's not a big deal. It's not a lie.

It's part of Christmas. I love it!!!!

"As dh says though a lot of the lying about Father Christmas is because adults enjoy watching the result so in a lot of ways we are lying to our children for our own pleasure. "

There are lies and there are lies.

Part of Christmas is putting out carrots for the reindeers and a mince pie and some milk for Santa!!

Couldn't agree more BBS.

Although actually lazycow's DH just sounds like he's taking his child's ethical upbringing seriously, which can only be a good thing.
At least it means he cares.

I remember when my cousin was born my Uncle insisted they wouldn't 'lie' about Father Christmas. I laughed at him (I was only 16 at the time), and in fact he was sucked in by the magic of it all by the time she was old enough to understand.

I'm with snow leopard , the ops dh and others- I have no intention of lieing to my ds about this.
Plannig on telling the st Nick story and explaining the santa tradition that has come from it. Will prob tell him about some of the other european folk traditions of presents for children in their shoes on Dec 6th (IIRC).

This is so interesting - that so many people feel that without a genuine, 100% cast-iron belief in FC, christmas isn't christmas. As so many of us have said, we FC-doubters aren't crazy rabidly PC doom-mongers who ban all mention of FC, won't read our children stories or play imaginative games. There is a vast difference between imagination and belief. In fact I am well into the carrot, sherry and mince pie palaver and want DS to have whatever fun he can get from "the magic of Christmas". The difference is just that I don't think it's a good idea to try to make him beleive something and actively lie about it - when I know, from personal experience, that it's just as much fun if deep down you suspect it's a game.

It's definitely not the case that innocence, or magic, or fun, are only a part of your childhood if you really believe in FC.

One thing that is important to me, as someone involved in science education, is the spirit of rational enquiry in children and encouraging it. That's one reason I don't like to hear/see people crushing their children's valid questions about FC. But I like Blu's take - maintaining an air of mystery and saying "what if". To me that encourages the imagination far more than saying "This is what you have to believe, and if you don't you won't get any presents."

I think at least for the OP this thread has provided some useful suggestions for a middle way she could work out with her DH, so that her DS can enjoy the fun without having to be "lied to".

Huzzah for snowleopard!

Does this all extend to books and tv programmes too? Please don't talk about Barnaby as if he were real because he's actually someone in a bear costume as bears can't really walk around, wear clothes and talk! Stories are just pretend and can never happen, so if you're holding out any hopes that when you're sent to bed because you're naughty you'll sail across the sea to where the wild things are you've got another thing coming young man!

I don't know anyone who was traumatised by finding out Santa wasn't real and in fact lots seemed quite gleeful at catching an adult out or realising before an older sibling.

Oh and I'm also relieved to find some people agree with me! Any time I've tentatively dared to express my views on this in RL I've been flattened under a stampede of people shouting "WHY WOULD YOU DENY YOUR CHILD THE MAGIC OF CHRISTMAS!!!??" etc. - so i thought it was just me.

Snowleopard - yes, I equally quail from fobbing off (at best) a child's rational enquiries.

Goblin - you're missing the ppint - or raher you have the point exactly! No-one does actually believe that Barnaby is a real live bear! It is a pretense, children know it is a pretence, and thoroughly enjoy it as such, or as DC put it earlier 'organised conspiracy'.

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To quote Miracle on 34th Street
"Whats worse, a truth that brings a tear, or a lie that brings a smile?"

I dont think it is lying to pretend Father Christmas exists. I beleived in him when I was little and still belive in the magic and spirit of Christmas, which is embodied by his image and that of the Nativity.

Also has your DH considered the effects of telling DS so young. What happens when if he passes this knowledge on to other children. I am going to be very sad when DD stops belieiving, and would be really cross if it's because another child has told her because he was told by his parents for such a (what I consider to be)pointless reason.

What's wrong with a little bit of magic - the world is becoming more ugly by the day, and Christmas is a fantastic time to shut out reality and enjoy some make believe.

we do all the FC stuff you can imagine. We put bird-friendly reindeer food out, we listen for sleigh bells-we even, for no good reason, do a dutch (I think) custom early in december when a someone rings the doorbell and you open the door and there are pastries and a small present each there. (electronic wizardry involved here)

However, we don't tell the kids that Santa exists.

To us, Santa is a custom. Its part of the experience of Xmas...we enjoy Halloween, dressing up as pumpkins and eating slime soup, but I am happy to tell my kids that witches categorically do not exist.

I do not feel comfortable with lying to my kids. If they ask me a question then, as far as possible, I give them a correct answer. Or tell them that I do not think that I can give them an answer that they would understand as yet (eg if my 3 yo asked about rape-actually I would be quite at this anyway)

There are actually quite a few parts of the santa myth that I feel profoundly uncomfortable with, eg telling kids that a strange man is going to come into the house while they are sleeping, that if they are good they will get presents, etc, that santa comes in the colours of a fizzy pop with especailly poor labour relations. I don't really buy into it. Yule is far more my thing.