Dh won't lie about Father Christmas

[lazycow]

That's it really. He says he refuses to lie to ds for something that is purely recreational even in an indirect way and has suggested we say something along the lines of

'Everybody plays a game at Christmas where they pretend Santa Claus exists so we can play too etc..'

I have some sympathy with this view actually as I don't like lying to ds either but this seems to be a bit TOO PC for my liking. I suppose I remember the excitement of waiting for the Santa delivery on Christmas eve and would like ds to have that.

As dh says though a lot of the lying about Father Christmas is because adults enjoy watching the result so in a lot of ways we are lying to our children for our own pleasure.

As ds is only 2 this year I'm sure we can skirt the issue with 'Let's put the stocking up and see if any presents arrive' without mentioning who brings them but next year I think will be different. Although I can see dh's point I can't help feeling disappointed and that somehow ds will miss out.

Does anyone else tell their children that Father Christmas doesn't exist from the beginning and if so do your kids still love Christmas and get excited about it?

I really think fairy tales etc are totally different from the FC thing. Our children may choose to believe in fairies or witches or magic in books but we don't tend to sit there reading, say, Little Red Riding Hood and then saying, 'And you know, all that really, truly happened!' and when the child says, 'Really? A wolf really dressed up as grandma', they say, 'Yes, it really did, and you absolutely must believe in it or bad things (ie no presents) will happen'. FC will come to our house but I can really see why not everyone wants to insist to their children that it is real. As for all this nonsense about a non-believing child telling a believing child, for heavens sake, most families have beleiving and non believing children in them at some point, and certainly most children over seven pretty much know, yet the story goes on OK.
And there are plenty of Mumsnetters who go completely doolally over Christmas, and I don't think they still believe in FC. It is possible to have a nice, exciting Christmas without it.
I believe Muslim children get excited about Eid, for example, without a sleigh in sight.

Whoops I really did not mean to start a massive argument. I really haven't had time to read them all as I have a big deadline at work.

I did notice isymums's post and blu and those are very useful thanks.

As an aside to some of the comments I've noticed. I have discussed this with dh and the jury is still out on what I will say though I think it will probably be along the lines of saying

'Let's see what happens when I put out the stocking, some people think a big red nosed (oops no that's rudolph) man called FC brings lots o presents. Then next morning when it arrives say 'Well so what do you think did FC bring them?' As I said I'll take a middle road which may mean that ds stops believing earlier.

In response to 'Why doesn't daddy believe' etc I'll just say some 'people don't believe, do you?'

As to what dh says well I actually have no control over that and I fundamentally have no real problem with his view so ds may get two different stories. The more I think about that though and reading some of the more constructive threads I'm hopeful ds's Christmases will be great fun anyway. I also belive that children have a fluid view of the line between fantasy and reality and that part of the sadness of growing up is losing that.

One final point - I love my dh very much and he is no no way a joyless sod. In fact one of his key things I love about him how much he makes me laugh. He has a few very strongly held beliefs and he can sometimes be a bit inflexible but those characteristics are no worse than my harridan screaming lazy persona.

This was not a post about how iritating dh is (though I'm sure I will post some of those soon too) but a genuine request to see if other people do the 'FC doesn't exits' thing and how it works for them.

As to the post about not replacing it with anything else. Actually we are both religious but I did not put this in my OP because tbh it isn't to do with that and I thought it would muddy the issue. I have no problem with combining FC and religion in the celebrations but I think FC should take a much lower priority for us.

dh's objections are about lying for what he sees as 'no good reason' He would actually lie to ds if he felt it was in ds's best interest.

I feel quite strongly about the whole FC lies issue because I realised it wasn't true when I was about 4, but when asked my mum and gran was told he is real, and "if you don't believe you won't receive" the budding scientist in me thought I'd test this hypothesis. Still got loads of prezzies and pretended to believe the following year. I think I was too scared not to the first time in case I ruined christmas. Now I think that was wrong. My son will know the magic of christmas, but I will never be treated the way I was.

I keep banging on about this - but you don't actually have to lie & still believe in Father Christmas.
FC is based on a real person - St Nicholas. He gave gifts to poor children. I tell my children that FC or St Nic lives on in the hearts of all those mummies & daddies who give their children presents at Christmas. We put stockings out in front of the chimney, but I am pretty sure they both know that a fat man in a red & white suit doesn't actually come down their chimney (They are 7 & 4.)

hatwoman

You know I've lost count of the number of freezing nights and very early mornings ds has insisted I get dressed so we can look at the moom or the stars or some new phenomena (eclipses, comets etc). He is already instilling the same awe and wonder in ds. I think he will gve ds loads of magic so I am really not worried about that.

We all believe in a bit of magic surely? when we read a fiction book, we pretend it's all real - for a moment, we believe in a film - we don't ring up the Director/author afterwards, and say "you lied!!" - we pretend it may snow at xmas - we do it all the time.
Xmas is for CHILDREN so we are playing their game.
Fantasy is very important - hm hm.
Personally, I really wish there WAS an FC. Imagine waking up and it's all been done.......
I think it's the ADULTS who are most hard done by the fact that there is no FC.

Do you really believe the book is real, or do you deliberately suspend your disbelief? I suspect it is the latter.
Do you tell your children their books are true, even if they don't think they are?
Actually when people pass off fiction as truth (eg fictional memoirs etc) readers do feel betrayed and pissed off.

but we are not playing their game, are we?

we are telling them that something exists when it doesn't. We are not actually giving them the option of having a game.

I don't see anything especailly creative about believing something that isn't true, just cos you don't know any better.

I think their is a danger of making fantasy seem more exciting than reality though LittleWonder. Reality can be trully amazing. The beauty of rainbows & how they are made is much more exciting than rubbish about leprechauns & gold. The reality of thunder & lightening is also far more interesting & exciting than some old tosh about God moving his furniture. There are so many interesting stories & legends about St Nicholas, I can't see why kids need to be taken in with fat men in fake beards & red outfits!
Sure have a laugh with it all, but you don't have to swear blind its all true!

"I don't see anything especailly creative about believing something that isn't true, just cos you don't know any better."

LMAO! That is so cool!

ah, science is winning, excellent

Go Science!

Go Science!

(ta goblinqueen btw)

lazycow, I haven't read the thread but I agree with your dh, I hate the FC lie too and I think it's fine not to mention it. We've had this discussion before on mn and I haven't got the energy for the debate again but will see if can find the thread.

old thread

omg, just realised people have been posting on that old thread this week!