Dh won't lie about Father Christmas

[lazycow]

That's it really. He says he refuses to lie to ds for something that is purely recreational even in an indirect way and has suggested we say something along the lines of

'Everybody plays a game at Christmas where they pretend Santa Claus exists so we can play too etc..'

I have some sympathy with this view actually as I don't like lying to ds either but this seems to be a bit TOO PC for my liking. I suppose I remember the excitement of waiting for the Santa delivery on Christmas eve and would like ds to have that.

As dh says though a lot of the lying about Father Christmas is because adults enjoy watching the result so in a lot of ways we are lying to our children for our own pleasure.

As ds is only 2 this year I'm sure we can skirt the issue with 'Let's put the stocking up and see if any presents arrive' without mentioning who brings them but next year I think will be different. Although I can see dh's point I can't help feeling disappointed and that somehow ds will miss out.

Does anyone else tell their children that Father Christmas doesn't exist from the beginning and if so do your kids still love Christmas and get excited about it?

Well beleiving in fc never did me any harm. It didn't stop me questioning anything and everything and I certainly didn't stop trusting my mum or looking at her any differently once I found out. I was more concerned about the fact that I might not get to put my stocking out or celebrate at all!!! Honestly, why does everyone insist on treating children like adults from the day they're born. What's wrong with kids being kids and having a little fun.

I once asked my dad how you got syphilis. I think I was about 6 at the time. God knows where I'd heard it. Seem to recall he told me that when naughty men and ladies "do rudies" with lots & lots of different people then get ill and their willies & noses fall off
"Oh- I won't do that then" said I

'I think it really is messing with children's heads to insist that this nonsense is real at the same time as trying to teach them not to lie.'

That's just silly. The majority of us believed in FC but it didn't 'mess' with our heads and we aren't compulsive liars!!! We've grown up to be pretty healthy adn rational adults I think!

your dh is a miserable fucker

So many replies so quickly

I think he is being scroogish but it is difficult to argue with him.

We talked about all this and how we would deal with other things like this

On God- Well he's happy with the argument some people believe some don't

On Faries- He argues that some adults actually belive in fairies because they say they have seen them so the above also applies.

However he knows no adults who believe in Father Christmas so can't in all honesty say that.

My view is that kids like the magic and over time come to understand themseleves what is true or not. I also had no problem when I realised it wasn't true and certainly didn't blame my parents for lying to me - I ws just happy at all the presents I got

I also worry that ds will tell another child and upset them (earlier than perhaps they might have found our anyway)

I think this is a good thread for me. Keep the objections coming so I can show him.

lol @ 'do rudies'!!

I take it you kept to your word liklboo

You can tell your children one thing, Lazycow, and your DH can say another. It will be fine.

Of course they'll still be excited no matter what you tell them about Santa, it's a toy extravaganza, they can't help but go beserk with anticipation.

How do I know this? Because I never told my children about Father Christmas. When they started asking (when eldest started school) we always said that Father Christmas is make-believe. Again, and again. Sometimes I add, but some people believe in him, and it's fun to pretend he's real (this is how we deal with "God", too). Meantime, the children get a barage of imagery and comments from teachers, friends, the media, about Father Christmas, be good or you won't get prezzies from Santa, etc.

And do you know what? They BELIEVE in FC! They really sort of almost do. I imagine they're hoping I'm wrong. DS started writing lists of what he wants from Santa this year in September.

So I haven't lied, they still get "the magic", and they won't ever feel let down by me. We still give them stockings from Santa. No problem. All they really care about is getting material stuff, deep down they don't give a toss how it got to them.

well I kind of sympathise with your dh. I do lie about FC because the children think its such fun and it is part of the whole christmas social thing. But it is difficult. I don't like it when the lie gets more elaborate (we have just done a shoe box, what do you say when they ask why FC isn't going to those children?). I don't like particularly bribing them with being good.

As for the tooth fairy, i let dh do that one and keep quiet, and de-bunked the EasterBunny myth straight away!

"mesing with children's heads" what a load of rubbish.

sorry but children are only little once, where's the harm in believing in father christmas - what's wrong with fantacy!

It's magical, it's exciting and it's lovely.

And not allowing a two/three year old to have that is the ultimate in madness imo.

Would like to engage in a good old MN argy bargy about this but I'm supposed to be working! In brief -p of course chilcren are not mini-adults and should have fun and games and an amazing magical time at Christmas - that "christmassy" feeling, ecxitement and father christmas, of course. It's just that it's obviously bollocks, and can't be true, and as soon as children start questioning it I think that's valid. I'd try to be as honest as possible while preserving the fun - just as if, if asked about rape etc., I'd try to be as honest as possible without being graphic or inappropriate.

I do accept though that I'm in a tiny minority over the FC thing...

I certainly won't be telling DS
"Look..life is crap. Nothing nice or magical happens without somthing sh!t happening to somebodt somewhere. There's death, disease, war, cruelty, taxes, poverty. And you're going to die one day. Every body is going to die one day. Now get over it and go and play with your lego"

Well....not till he's about 7 anyway

In reply to the question on incest etc. My philosophy is that when ds is old enough to ask a question he is old enough to have the answer given in as unfrightening but as honest a way as I can tell it.

However even given that - my view on FC is not the same as my dh - maybe because I enjoy the magic too much.

i am sorry but imo that is just not on!!
i am quite rankled by this actually!
why should your ds be deprived of the magic of santa?
also, at least when a child believes in santa, their parent has an excuse not to buy that £400 electric ride on jeep because it probably wont fit in santas sleigh.
i cannot imagine how pants christmas would have been without santa as a child.
when my bros and i found out the truth we were dissapointed he was not real but not angry or anything at being lied to.

Actually Snowleopard - thanks that is really what I wanted - it obviously is possible to enjoy christmas while thinking of the whole FC thing as a game.

I think I can convince dh to be a bit non-commital about it and leave me to do the telling. I like the idea about talking about st Nicholas etc in preparation so I think I'll try and walk a middle line as you have suggested and tell dh to say nothing. Hope it works!!

OMG am pissing myself at Iklboo's dad

snowleopard I don't know whether to be or amused by your comment:

"I think it really is messing with children's heads to insist that this nonsense is real "

I remember no insisting at all, fantasy and imagination and excitement perhaps but never did my parents stand over me and say "FC is real, that is the end of it, now believe or else". And fwiw, I never believed either but was not "horrified" to find that others did. It's fine if you don't want to tell your children about FC and choose to celebrate in another way, but I find it very that you would be 'horrified' by the 'messing of heads' of such an 'awful and cruel' practice. It's your choice of language that amazes me- it's not abuse, it's imagination. Are we to have no magic at all? After reading a book about fairies to our children, must we say as a disclaimer at the end 'but this nonsense does not exist really and it would be cruel to believe otherwise.'

I can't believe I'm getting het up about FC !

also, by the time kids are old enough to know he doesn't exist (found out when I was about 7/8 I think) they're older and can still be excited about the pressies - but that whole christmas eve thing when they're little, putting out the carrot/mince pie, going to bed and listening for bells, it's just magical and it only happens once a year so where's the harm.

lazycow, did your dh believe in Santa as a child?

Also if you're not going to go along with santa, what else are you not going to go along with - magicians, heaven etc. Life is too short to worry about the small things like this. The window of opportunity is so small these days on a true childhood of innocence, I think its a shame to cut it even further.

Now what has everyone asked santa for this year???

Oh thanks Flack (just read your post too)- That makes me feel better too. I just don't want ds to miss out on the fun really.

As I said, I did not believe as a child and I still greatly enjoyed the excitement and the "magic of Santa". I would not want to deprive a child of that magic at all, just wouldn't want to do the elaborate fobbing off, lying and telling them they have to believe. Children are capable of joining in and gettin greally into it while at some level knowing that it's all a game.

Aaaargh have to go, will check back on this later.

why should you have to compromise though! Your ds should be allowed to believe in fc!

Cryptmonkey - Yes I did believe in Father Christmas and got a lot of pleasure out of it. I remember when I realised it wasn't true and that was fine too. In fact I carried on saying I believed in him for a couple of years so as not to disappoint my younger sister.

you'd better watch out!
you'd better not cry|!
you'd better be good, i'm telling you why!
SANTA CLAUS IS COMING TO TOWN
SANTA CLAUS IS COMING TO TOWN
SANTA CLAUS IS COMING.....TO TO-OWN!

It looks quite threatening written down, doesn't it?

Like the boogey man!