Dh won't lie about Father Christmas

[lazycow]

That's it really. He says he refuses to lie to ds for something that is purely recreational even in an indirect way and has suggested we say something along the lines of

'Everybody plays a game at Christmas where they pretend Santa Claus exists so we can play too etc..'

I have some sympathy with this view actually as I don't like lying to ds either but this seems to be a bit TOO PC for my liking. I suppose I remember the excitement of waiting for the Santa delivery on Christmas eve and would like ds to have that.

As dh says though a lot of the lying about Father Christmas is because adults enjoy watching the result so in a lot of ways we are lying to our children for our own pleasure.

As ds is only 2 this year I'm sure we can skirt the issue with 'Let's put the stocking up and see if any presents arrive' without mentioning who brings them but next year I think will be different. Although I can see dh's point I can't help feeling disappointed and that somehow ds will miss out.

Does anyone else tell their children that Father Christmas doesn't exist from the beginning and if so do your kids still love Christmas and get excited about it?

Oh! I've just flicked down a few posts and found that Blu has said pretty much what I said, but expressed it more eloquently. As always.

The magic of magic is that it excites our imaginations. Imaginations work best on the 'what if...?' rather than 'this is true'.
My grumbly old woman gripe with Christmas is that many of the toys FC brings are designed to make children's imaginations redundant - lego so prescriptive in it's detailed design, everything completely 'realistic', everything graphic and with all the gaps filled in.

Our imaginations enable us to empathise (and therefore have compassion) be ambitious in our thinking (and therefore make huge scientific explorations). Children can take thier imaginations to the limity and 'believe' in Father Christmas imaginitively, without us working really ahrd to insist it is actually true. It's easy to believe things that an adult tells you is true. Much more fun to pretend that something not true, is!

Are you prepared to be social pariahs ??

Because if your child told my child, I would be beyond livid.

A lot of us trying to do our best for our children still indulge them and don't deel like liars I am sorry you were offended xx Lots of 'traditions'aren't the gospel truth but are still fun.It is pc gone mad as someone else has said.Do you really think children who believe in a little magic for a few years grow up any different to those who don't or think any less of their parents?

But, booboo, there's a difference between reading fairy tales and myths and repeatedly saying Baba Yaga is real and is coming to visit you! Ok, she's the bad guy. But you wouldn't want to over the top in your insistance that Peter Pan was real either and would be paying a visit.

Just because you don't want to directly lie about Santa to your dcs doesn't mean that you don't believe in the power and benefit of a good story.

If you don't tell your children I'm real I won't bring you any presents (and who pinched my name, eh? Some imposters are masquerading as Father Christmas and Santa Claus...shan't be bringing them any presents either).

And Sherlock, some poor little bugger's going to tell your dc one day, surely?!

Nobody is saying that you shouldn't tell your children about FC, or that nobody should mention him or enjoy the pretence or even really believe in it. How is one family doing what they think fits in with their moral beliefs "PC gone mad"?

(x-posted with both your posts, issymum - interruptions)

Boobobedoo - I completely agree about fairy tales and their absolute importance in the development of areas of the emotions and psyche that children explore imaginately through them. BUT that doesn't mean that children believe, underneath it all, that it is true.

The themes explored imaginaitely in Hansel and gretel are very powerful, and it is totally possible for a child to immerse themselves in the deeper truths of the stiry - which are emotionally true. But even though they experience fear and thrills listening to the story, they 'know' underneath it all that there are no witches wit gingerbread cottages.

And could we talk about this without dismissing people with certain beliefs, views or experiences as one 'brigade' or another?

It's a discussion!

Have to agree with Custardo. What a miserable, mean-minded, joyless bloke he sounds like. And why on earth can't you argue with him, LC?

Kids can cope with any amount of stories in which we as adults can see glaring contradictions. You know what? They don't sit there thinking "How can FC exist if Jesus does?" when they're little, and by the time they do, they're old enough to reason stuff out for themselves. Just let your kids grow up experiencing everything that's joyful in life, FGS. They'll have plenty of time to deal with reality when they're grown up.

I don't think I could stand it if my DH insisted the main thing that makes Christmas magical for adults - ie children's enjoyment - should be compromised when the child is only 2!!!

Bah Humbug indeed.

I can't believe anyone would tell their children that FC doesn't exist!!
My DS is nearly 2 so is not old enough to understand but we'll be doing the whole FC thing this year, and every year. Being a parent is wonderful, and I now know what people mean when they say how wonderful it is seeing the world through a child's eyes. We absolutley love our DS being excited by anything, his excitment at seeing and feeding ducks when we go for a walk, or throwing twigs in the canal or anything is just magical and we can't wait for him to get excited about FC.
I remember how exciting xmas was when we were kids, and putting out a glass of milk and a mince pie etc on xmas eve. I always wrote my letter to santa and one year santa wrote back, I remember the excitment of that now and i'm sure I was more chuffed about that than any of the presents I got that year. I was not devastated when I found out, and I still love xmas now.
Telling your children about FC and pretending he exists is a magical few years, because they will soon grow up and won't believe it. It's hardly lying is it, and if your DH is going to adopt a not lying policy (even small fibs) then your DS will have to face the harsh realities of life at a young age. I feel really sad for your DS and hope your DH changes his mind.

Pointydog

Yes they probably will, but not when he is 5.

I still believe in santa and I am 24. He is up there somewhere, just not how we see him as children.

Your DH must be anti everything a child does. All play is not real but we dont stop our children from playing!

Its all a game and I for 1 love to play Christmas.

I will hate myself the day I dont want to play Christmas anymore.

Sherlock - once they are at school people will tell them all sorts of things that conflict with what they are told at home.....unless as well as faith schools the local authority start to support 'Santa Schools'!!

I would never contradict something a child believed from their parents - but it's a bit much to expect every other adult to uphold a particular approach to the whole thing because you do! If he wants to 'believe' he will do whatever anyone tells him at school. More so if he is 'deciding' to believe, iyswim.

You are setting the benchmark very high starting with never lying to your children when they are only 2!I wish you luck with it tbh because it is virtually impossible to maintain these standards once the little monkeys grow up get their own opinions and question everything you say.A little white lie comes in handy then!

Oh marvellous. Now lazycow's dh is being held up as culturally and creatively dead.

We're talking about Santa. That's all.

SherlockLGJ: I have thought about this issue - will my DDs spoil it for other children? telling. My hunch is that before school age, children just don't chat with each other in these terms:

"So Tarquin, shall we discuss whether Father Christmas is a tangible physical phenomenon or just a creative myth expounded by our parents for our pleasure?"

Even if DD2 were to say to one of her pre-school mates, "He's not real", I expect the reply would be "Yes he is" and the philosophical debate wouldn't progress much further than that. Her mate would probably look to her own parents to confirm or deny and that would be up to them.

By school age when your peers might be that much more persuasive, I just can't believe that in a class of 30 my DD is the only one who 'knows'. I have asked her not to mention it to other children as they like to 'pretend' too.

dd1 was told be local eejit at age 5 that Santa didn't exist. She spoke to us, I was pretty non-committal, asked what she thought, she said she still believed. That was that.

I think it is easy to have these rules at the 2 yr mark I had friends who insisted their little girl called them by christian names as they didn't want the whole mummy daddy thing blah blah This worked til she went to nursery and she was calling them mummy and daddy within a fortnight and still is (she's 11 now)

I haven't had difficulties so far with having a 'no lying' policy with my kids.

Accept it might happen, noddy (and possibly has) but each parent chooses their own issues and priorities.

I had a magical childhood, and I want my child to have a magical childhod and if that means being economical with the truth for a few years, well so be it.

I can still remember the awe and wonder on Christmas morning when I realised he had been.
The feeling that someone I had never met, loved me enough to fly through the night to bring me gifts, well do you know what??? You have no idea how loved and cherished that made me feel.

I am sure that this does not make sense to anyone but me, but I am posting it anyway. So there see ner.

I wonder if it's a bloke thing ?
I can't bring myself to lie to my kids, and my rather heavy silence is now being noticed.
DS2 believes that Captain Jack Sparrow is a real person, indeed he seems to be believe he is Jack.
I don't have a problem with that sort of thing, it just feels like an organised conspiracy to confuse them.
That makes it sound like I'm some sort of paranoid, and to be honest I don't care that much, but I won't do things I believe to be wrong.

He's a grown man now Domini with children of his own.

If he wants to be Jack Sparrow, leave him be

we odnt do much too
we kind of half heatedly do it
seems odd ot lie

I'm another one amazed by the crossness about something that is hardly wicked or immoral. I have also felt a bit dubious about really going for the FC thing. Yes, it can be sweet and charming, but sometimes I cringe a bit at things I have read here - like 'Well, if you don't believe you won't get any presents' and when children ask directly about it, really crushing their inquiries and flatly contradicting them. That, I think, is getting perilously close to lying.