Giving a Reason for Not Having Children

[NeonSoda]

I find, as a 38-year-old woman, that I'm asked quite a bit if I have children. I suspect that this often happens in my professional environment because I'm about a decade 'behind' in my career after going to university as a mature student for nine years relatively recently so the assumption is I took a career break to look after children (because they don't know I went to uni for that long).

I used to either say 'I don't want children' or 'I can't have children' depending on how bothered I could be to have a conversation about it. Both invite very different responses, as I'm sure others here will have experienced.

But a while back, I started saying 'I never made the choice to have children."

This really throws people because to many people in our society having children isn't a choice, it's a default behaviour as part of the escalation of their relationship. A natural thing that women/couples do.

But by saying 'I never made the choice to have children' you are instead reframing NOT having children as the default choice (which it is) and having children as an active choice that someone has made (which it is...).

Anyway, just throwing it out there in case others want to experiment with this line. I find it generally gets quite a neutral response as people process what you've just said, and they quickly move the conversation elsewhere rather than examine their own choices in life. 😂

And you didn't feel stigma and shame at not working in country where a large swathe of the press only ever writes "scrounger" with "benefits" in front of it? OK...

You shouldn't be made to feel like that, but meanwhile in the real world...

I tell people I have a DD who is 19 and a DS who is 7. I just don't tell them that my 'dcs' are a horse and cat 😂

No, why should I? I know who I am. Why would I give a shit what a complete stranger may or may not think about me?

I think people base far too much insight into what other people must think about them, when the truth is, they don't think about them at all.

People ask questions based on trying to find a common ground. Do you really think your hairdresser actually cares where you've been on holiday this year or is judging you on the response?

A woman at the river this weekend, had a little dog, hurling itself in after it's ball. It bolted over our picnic blanket a few times, but we found it funny. She sat down near us and asked if we had a dog. Because it's a potential conversation starter with someone you don't know. Does she know I've had a horrible experience with a dog attack...or not? Does she know if my beloved pet was sadly put to sleep last week and I don't want to talk about it...or not? Does she know I find dogs frightening, or that I in fact hugely dislike dogs...or not?

It's entirely normal and not a nasty or loaded question, to ask if we have a dog. She genuinely doesn't care if we do or not, it's purely to find a common ground to chat upon.

The asking "do you have children?" isn't a bad or inappropriate question at all. It only becomes so, if you continue to probe, why?

@ChristmasCrumpet because it's a highly private, personal and exceedingly emotive subject. No-one opens a conversation with a contentious subject and expects to get away with it every time.

Maybe start your conversations by asking whether the woman you're talking to has consensually received an erect penis in her vagina, leading to the man ejaculating in an attempt to impregnate her and whether such attempts have been successful in starting a pregnancy and if that pregnancy went to term and if the baby was born and has lived to be raised by the woman with or without the man....

Because ultimately each stage is a highly personal issue and is where you, the questioner, fall down every time you assume it's an innocuous question.

And believe me, over 75% of people will follow up with a variation on WHY when you say you don't have or can't have kids. People need to fuck off.

because it's a highly private, personal and exceedingly emotive subject. No-one opens a conversation with a contentious subject and expects to get away with it every time

It isn't for most people though, which is why it gets asked a lot.

I was told that I was extremely unlikely to get pregnant and have a successful pregnancy, and when people asked if I had any children I always replied "no, I can't have them". That always shut the conversation down and people didn't probe after that.

because it's a highly private, personal and exceedingly emotive subject. No-one opens a conversation with a contentious subject and expects to get away with it every time

It isn't for most people though, which is why it gets asked a lot.

Exactly this.

This issue is though, that most of the time the asker doesn’t realise that it is a possible touchy topic. Because when the answer is no, the person that’s been asked is maybe left surprised or hurt. The person thats doing the asking either moves on with their life or asks why. Probably obliviously as well.

so when the topic of this OP is then changes to “I was childfree before I had my children”, it misses the point. And just proves the obliviousness.

I don’t like being rude for the sake of it, but I think a lot of subjects are touchy. But never to those that are asking. It’s just something to be aware of.

This 100%

This.

The question "do you have kids?" has an implied "have you fucked your wife?". I'd get fired for asking the second of a colleague, so why is the first OK?

The question "do you have kids?" has an implied "have you fucked your wife?". I'd get fired for asking the second of a colleague, so why is the first OK?

I'm sorry, but I think you are overthinking this massively.

Not really, people adopt and have IVF.

Do you have to avoid all mentions of husbands/wives/partners/families at work?

I'd assume that poster is 'overthinking it massively' because she's been on the receiving end of comments about her childfree status ever since she made that decision. And even if she is, so what? I'm fed up with being told - presumably by parents - that we 'lack resilience,' are 'over thinking it' and that people are just being polite and aren't really interested. It's the parent version of blokes huffing 'blimey, you can't say a thing to a woman these days without getting into trouble.'

Adoption and IVF are minorities of conceptions.

People talk about having spouses, that's not the same as asking someone if they fucked their spouse.

It's probably because I'm autistic and therefore apply logic to situations where others wouldn't think to apply it.

It's probably because I'm autistic and therefore apply logic to situations where others wouldn't think to apply it

Or like me, get fed up of the question after years of it and get churlish and return it to sender (altho at 69 I don't get asked. Apart from the colleague who was convinced on no basis at all that I have a daughter).

Exactly my baby wasn’t conceived through sex. People are making small talk. Children are something to talk about. Nobody has ever followed up by asking me how he was made.

I’ve asked people in the past whether they have children (small talk) but having read this thread, I’ll desist in future. It’s easy enough to talk about other stuff.

I don't mind being asked if I have children but I would never ask anyone else that question after seeing the absolute state my friend was in after being asked that question a couple of hours after being told she would never be able to have children. If someone has children they usually bring it up fairly quickly anyway and then you can ask follow up questions if you want to.

Exactly this. I'm quite happy to talk to colleagues about their offspring if they raise it because they wouldn't raise it if it was a sore topic. But I'm aware that it can be a sore topic and I don't want to needlessly make someone sad, a) because it's the humane thing to refrain from doing so and b) because I really struggle to respond to someone who is upset.

I often said "Good God no!" or "No way!" when I was still young enough for anyone to ask.

I love this! 😄

Sister!

I used to say "I'd rather bear a litter of kittens" on occasion.

The thing is if you actually want to get to know someone or find common ground what do you say?

Things like:
How was your weekend?
Any plans for the weekend?
Did you go on holiday this year?
Do you get time for hobbies these days?
Have you lived in x town long?
Have you been to x place?

Then the person can give as much info as they want. And if they want to talk you'll soon find out if they have kids, a husband, pets, or any common interests or not. And if their answers are short and reveal nothing about themselves you can either follow up or assume they don't want to talk about that.

Thank you for listening and taking it on board.