Giving a Reason for Not Having Children

[NeonSoda]

I find, as a 38-year-old woman, that I'm asked quite a bit if I have children. I suspect that this often happens in my professional environment because I'm about a decade 'behind' in my career after going to university as a mature student for nine years relatively recently so the assumption is I took a career break to look after children (because they don't know I went to uni for that long).

I used to either say 'I don't want children' or 'I can't have children' depending on how bothered I could be to have a conversation about it. Both invite very different responses, as I'm sure others here will have experienced.

But a while back, I started saying 'I never made the choice to have children."

This really throws people because to many people in our society having children isn't a choice, it's a default behaviour as part of the escalation of their relationship. A natural thing that women/couples do.

But by saying 'I never made the choice to have children' you are instead reframing NOT having children as the default choice (which it is) and having children as an active choice that someone has made (which it is...).

Anyway, just throwing it out there in case others want to experiment with this line. I find it generally gets quite a neutral response as people process what you've just said, and they quickly move the conversation elsewhere rather than examine their own choices in life. 😂

I’m ancient now and my peers have grandchildren but I always used to say ‘Because they’re not compulsory’.

I reply that I would never have a child with a man who I wasn't 100% certain would do 50% of raising a child. All my fronds and colleagues do 80% and all of the life admin and I never met anyone I believed would honour that. I remain childless but now a full time parent to three step children. My partner is a widower so had been used to doing 100% for a number of years before me.

Ha yes. I now have a secret bingo card in my head about the response to me saying no I don't.

So far "so you won't understand....." is the top one from women and "good for you, I wish I didn't" from men.

I've just got back from a weekend away and read through the posts.

I just want to address all of the little 'but asking about if you have children is just normal small talk.'

If you do not have children, this is not really 'normal' small talk. I would never think to ask if a person had children if I was getting to know them.

This is really only normal if YOUR normal is children. So for a parent it may seem normal to ask if someone has children, because you are looking to connect over the shared experience of having children. Your default is 'people probably have children', and therefore, it's something you think you'll be able to bond about.

I am much more likely to ask something like 'do you play any sports?' or 'what kind of movies do you like?' because sports and movies are a big part of my life.

But the thing is if you say 'I don't play any sports' or 'I prefer listening to music to watching movies' then there's no stigma attached to that. However, if you do not have children, as a woman, there is still a stigma attached to that.

The point of this thread is to try and counteract the stigma that us women without children face when trying to navigate the world.

Op I think we all need to stop being worried about having a conversation with other people.

It’s perfectly acceptable to ask someone if they have children. If I ask someone that though, I absolutely don’t expect an explanation as to why.

Just in the same way someone may feel personally upset by being asked if they play sport. Maybe they don’t because they have a disibility or injury, or they don’t because of lack of time. But we don’t expect an explanation as to why they don’t play sports.

I believe I explained the difference between the two different types of question in my post, which you chose to ignore.

One has stigma attached to it's answer, one doesn't.

I usually say I have cream sofas and children would ruin them.

I didn’t ignore it at all. What i’m saying is that any kind of question has the risk of upsetting anyone, depending on that person’s circumstances. Eg I was speaking to someone new, I may ask them if they’ve been on holiday this year. They may feel upset as they are in financial difficulties and couldn’t afford it. People should not be afraid to ask other people questions and get to know them. Especially in this day and age of less f2f contact etc.

As I said - the question of children or not has a deep patriarchal stigma attached to it as a woman.

The other things you say do not have the kind of deep, patriarchal stigma attached to them that is frequently used to shame women.

While someone might feel sad because they can't afford to do football, that is not the same as the expectations placed on women to have children. The questions are not equivilent.

So what are you saying exactly? What would be your preference?

For example, I have a child. If i were to meet you, am I not supposed to ask you if you have children? If the answer is no, I don’t expect the person to justify themselves and personally wouldn’t give a toss about the reason as I know there are many reasons why women don’t have children. It’s just a way of me trying to find some common ground with that person. I’m quite happy to move on to other questions afterwards. It may be a stigma but not everyone who asks the question sees it like that. So i agree with the other posters that it is just general conversation for most people :)

People probably ask you because many people have kids and talk about it.

But the reason why is really no one's business is it. I love my kids but given the trade offs its clear to me some people would make a different choice. I mean childcare provision is so flaky and expensive. And sadly some try but it doesn't work out.

Most of the people I know are more likely to say that having kids is a selfish act and the best thing you can do for the environment is not have kids. In my circle of friends and acquaintances, there is really no stigma attached to not having kids, and also many of the young people I know are saying they will not have kids - times are changing-

I don't feel that I need you to point out that having kids is a choice and that the default is or should be not having kids- I already agree with you. Way too many people have way too many kids. I had too many myself, and am able to admit that this was selfish and not the wisest choice, though I certainly enjoyed it at the time.

Your line: " I never made the choice to have kids" is something that might start a conversation- I might ask you about it, your feelings about choice in this matter. If you were open to it, maybe a more interesting conversation could come out of it.

Agree with this. I think even many posts on MN itself show there is a negative view of people who do have kids. Environment, noise in public places etc. I myself and many others have lost child-free friends who simply don’t want to spend time with us now we have kids.

But most of us don’t attach any judgement to child-free people. Probably because we are exhausted, lonely and skint and miss our own child-free lives!

So for me there's no good or comfortable answer to the question 'Do you have children?'

If I say yes, I am lying.

If I say no, I fear I will be judged.

You may feel that you do not judge if someone says 'no', but I will feel judged - and that is what many women without children will tell you that they feel. Even on this thread women without children have expressed that they do not like that question, that it makes them feel uncomfortable, and that they would prefer an alternative. For example someone above suggested asking about someones family. If you ask about my family I'll tell you about my cat, my Dad, and maybe my partners. It's a much more fulfilling question for me. You can deduce your own answer then to the question you've not asked about having children.

I have no particular issue being asked, it’s a perfectly polite, common question I think. I just say No, and move on. The why’s are no one’s business.

Are you aware that this is the 'childfree' forum? It's really intended as a space to discuss things that are relevant to being childfree. It's not really intended as a space where people can come and tell us that our feelings and problems related to being childfree aren't valid.

If I’m asked, I say “I never had the opportunity “

Again, we can’t all be too scared to ask people about themselves as a way of making new friends. Most people are smart enough to understand why people don’t have children

Yeah, have a read of some of the threads on here about how 'understanding' some people are.

There will be for each individual, a question they feel uncomfortable with, or they feel may lead to an awkward conversation

And for a lot of people without children, that's the question about if they have them and why they don't. You're happy to talk about your father, fine. Some people regard the reasons for their childfree status as deeply personal.

The answers really feel like NAMALT responses when male violence comes up on conversation

In asking your innocuous question about children in an effort to find common ground, you're reducing the other person in status if they don't have kids. You haven't the faintest idea why it might be painful or distressing to someone. Nor why they find the subject distasteful.

I was asked it a LOT in my 30s, but no one knew DH was infertile, that we'd worked for years to try to get me pregnant, that we then went through the adoption process only to be turned down because of my disability.

Every person that asks me about kids is stabbing me in the heart and twisting the knife.

So many people then follow it up with "why not" or "have you tried adopting".

Makes me fucking furious. Please find something else on your life to talk to people about. Pets. Past times. What you watched on TV last night. Food.

Nowhere did I say your feelings aren’t valid. It’s perfectly valid to feel uncomfortable when someone asks you a question about your private life, regardless of the question. I think that is one of my main points in my posts actually.

In regards to this being a childfree forum, your own posts refer to perspectives or actions of people who do have children, so we should also have the right to give you our perspective. We are not banned from the forum.

If I go back to my child-free days, I would still argue that asking if someone has children is still a normal and valid question by the person asking, without any intention of causing offence. I didn’t used to have children but I worked in several jobs with children.

Are you aware that this is the 'childfree' forum? It's really intended as a space to discuss things that are relevant to being childfree. It's not really intended as a space where people can come and tell us that our feelings and problems related to being childfree aren't valid.

Time and time again this is disregarded. People see threads in active and just post without reading the thread, looking at the subheading/where they're posting or in some cases, just to be an arsehole.

You have given your perspective.

I (and others) have suggested that you consider people's thoughts and feelings because of the society that we live in.

You have clarified that you don't think that's necessary because you personally have never found it a problem.

Your perspective has been noted.

Wow.

Big of you to assume I lower the status of the person if they answer no they don’t have children. In fact, what i’d be thinking is ‘oh this person may not be interested in being friends with me because my experience is that many child free people dislike people with little kids.’ See, we all have our thoughts, which may often turn out not to be true.

The point i’m trying to make is, every single person may have something they are uncomfortable talking about, regardless of what the subject is, but we can’t be scared to talk to each other in case of offending someone!

I can assure you that you that I am not trying to be an arsehole.

There are posts in here making untrue assumptions about parents, therefore posters with children should have a right to give their own perspective.

I’m not saying anyone’s feelings are invalid, I’m saying that many/most people may have something that upsets them to discuss, that may come out of a genuine day-to-day conversation. But we are not going to get anywhere in life if we’re all too scared to ask anyone a question about themselves. I am simply following on from what other posters have mentioned about it being a common question in general conversation.