How do you define 'childfree'?

[Lottapianos]

To me, being 'childfree' means that you don't have children, won't ever be having children, and (on balance) you are happy about that. I see parents on here saying things like 'i was childfree until I was 35' or 'i have a childfree weekend coming up'. Not having children yet is not the same as knowing that you won't ever be a parent. Other people taking care of your children for a while is not the same as being childfree. Some of us on here made a positive early choice to lead a childfree life, some of us got there later and through a more complex route, but we all share a common identity as people who are not parents

Do others on here agree?

One of the reasons we (well I, don't want to speak for others), I find it offensive is that childfree as used by a parent sometimes implies some sort of judgment as in the (proper) childfree person not having reached maturity or something. And for people who are involuntarily childfree, it can be even more painful as they might feel like they are seen as having failed to reach maturity due to e.g., infertility.

Yes, @FufferPish this is an important distinction. I can't tell you the number of times that people have said to me that stupid line "Oh, you don't have children so you don't know ... X or Y "

And in general society women who haven't had children are definitely seen as lesser. In my profession, it's almost as though we've "cheated" - we've found a way to have a career just like a man's. And this is not a proper way for a woman to behave.

It's particularly galling as I consider myself "socially infertile." Never met the right man at the right time etc etc. So there's a dollop of feeling like one has failed at being a human being in several important aspects!

A normal phrase to you perhaps, but not a normal turn of phrase to me.

It may have escaped your notice that childfree people are in a minority, parents are everywhere; therefore, unfortunately, there is no escaping them - even on here, a childfree section of the forum.

It doesn't.

Why people think they can suddenly claim a phrase and try and deny the meaning to millions of other people, is beyond me.

It's ok not to agree. It's not ok to insist your way is correct and everyone else is wrong.

Same!!!!

I have friends without children. I might moan about my children or make jokes with the child free (and vice versa) but I wouldn't dream of doing the same with the childless. That's one of the reasons I think there should be separate words

But what about those of is who have been through infertility but choose to call ourselves child free?

Or do we have to let parents define whether we refer to ourselves as childfree or childless?

I definitely use the word childfree to indicate that I am carrying out a task or have a space of time without children.
So a childfree weekend if dc are both away with the school. Lots of parents I know use this expression.
As I usually have children it is usually a boundaried statement, weekend, afternoon, wedding, along with an explanation of where dc are.
It is a very useful and relevant word if you usually aren't childfree.

I am not bothered by how other people do or don't use these words that is their choice.

@Ifeelsuchflutterings
"Or do we have to let parents define whether we refer to ourselves as childfree or childless?"

Of course not. You can call yourself anything you want. In MY opinion though, having nuanced words is helpful and facilitates conversation.

So why are you calling bullshit then? Just because you have never heard of it before I had never heard of a subset of childless women wanting to be referred to as childfree until 10 years ago. Does that mean it was bullshit before then? Every day is a school day eh?

Amazing, still going and still parents barging (in oh, did you find 'barging' offensive? But I didn't mean it that way, and surely it was a minor thing and I don't think anyone should take offence).

In all seriousness, some of the childfree posters have poured their heart out, and talked about their journey towards being completely comfortable with being childfree, after infertility.

A lot of us have similar stories, including me, and after a long period in my life I feel like I have earned the right to call myself childfree. Like parents have absolutely earned the right to the word 'parent'. And that is why I will never call any pet 'my furbaby'

You're always on this board sticking your beak in and being contentious.
Bore off already!

I think it can mean different things. When I say I'm childfree for the weekend ect it means my DD is with her dad. If someone I meet doesn't have kids they would just say 'i don't have any children'. It's only other parents that I have heard use the term 'childfree'. Also, surely anyone is childfree before becoming a parent? It's accurate to describe there time before parenthood as childfree times.

And so you, a parent, have decided to come on the childfree forum, to tell those who have not been able to have children, many of who have expressed in previous threads that we now prefer to consider ourselves as childfree, to tell us that actually having nuanced words helps facilitate conversation, for you, a parent?

Okay then.

But we cannot express a desire for childfree to mean those without children even where its helpful for us to have nuanced words to facilitate conversation

Just the parents who get to pick then.

Having said all of that i am good with usernames. So I know that you have repeatedly raised the point that childless and childfree should be used in line with your defintions of them. Despite people with infertility explaining their preferences to you previously.

You even went to MN complaining that we got a board together because in your opinon we should be seperated. Even though you are neither childfree or childless and this doesnt impact you in any way at all

You dont get a right to define my label for myself or try to force a seperation between us.

I assumed childfree to mean someone who CURRENTLY doesn’t have children. Whether that’s a lifelong decision or a temporary thing then both people can still be childfree in those circumstances. I think context matters

That's my definition!

I'd also add for myself, have no involvement with children, no more than infrequent, momentary contact with them in shops or the like.

@Ifeelsuchflutterings "You dont get a right to define my label for myself or try to force a seperation between us."

Of course I don't. But I am surely allowed to express opinions? And it does impact me because I live in society and want to be able to talk to people without upsetting them.

All of this.

You do understand, people post because they want to, not because they have to justify their presence.

No one is desperate to be anywhere. If something pops up and a poster is interested in the topic, they'll post. There's no "I must be on every board" it's just what piques someone's interest at a given time.

I'm not desperate to be a step mum. I commented on a thread there. Because I was interested in the discussion.

Childfree to me is someone who has chosen not to have children

That can include infertile people

Infertility is a bit like a train journey. You can get off at the first station or you can go all the way through to the destination.

So you can decide that if you dont get pregnant "naturally" then you will give up

Or you can go to the thermometers and ovulation tracking station

Or the IVF station

You can change trains and go down the sperm donor or egg donor track

You might get off before you end up at surrogacy.

You might get off before you end up at adoption.

Because in the vast majority of cases most infertile people without children have actively made a decision to stop the journey. Whether thats deciding that 4 rounds of IVF is your limit, or deciding a sperm donor is not for you etc there tends to be an actual decision.

And that decision is a decision not to have children. Which is why many of us often tend to end up feeling more childfree than childless. Because often we also tend to embrace than decision as the years go on.

I desperately wanted children. But honestly if I got pregnant now I would have to strongly consider whether I even wanted a baby. because it turns out i actually like a childfree life and would be loath to give that up. So Im childfree and happy with that even if it did take a little while to get here.

You have had multiple people who have been through infertility tell you they prefer to refer to themselves as childfree not childless

So it would appear that "wanting to be able to talk to people without upsetting them" actually isnt your priority

Maybe if it was your priority you would listen to the people you are apparently worried about upsetting and actually hear what they are saying instead of making assumptions about what you think the best thing is for them.

Its like having a committee to work out how to encourage more women into a specific job but only putting men on the committee and having them tell women what they want, even when women are telling them the opposite, because the men think they know better.

If you want to talk to people without upsetting them, then listen to and respect what they tell you about the language they use to refer to themselves. It’s really easy.

But we cannot express a desire for childfree to mean those without children even where its helpful for us to have nuanced words to facilitate conversation

Of course you can. It's what most of the sensible posters are saying. Each of us can interpret what it means to us.

In the same way, that I can't (and wouldn't want to) stop you calling yourself Child-free because you've made a conscious positive decision to never have a child, you can't stop me using the word Child-free to refer to a period of time where I am not responsible for my DC. It means the former to you, it means the latter to me. Nothing wrong with that.

The only issue is if I start demanding you can't call yourself Child-free because I don't agree with your interpretation. Or saying you're denying me of something by using a word, simply because you use it in a different way. That's not ok. But then I'm not doing that, and you're not either. And there lies no issue.

Some parents and equally some child free posters are so militant in their thinking that they can't tolerate a different interpretation. Most are sensible enough to appreciate in the scheme of things, it actually makes no odds to me/them what people like to call themselves, or how they refer to their time.

@EbiRaisukaree
"If you want to talk to people without upsetting them, then listen to and respect what they tell you about the language they use to refer to themselves. It’s really easy."

Of course. Unfortunately there isn't a consensus.On this thread alone, there appear to be several different opinions.

Honestly I couldnt care less if someone refers to a childfree wedding or a childfree weekend etc

But I find it problematic when some parents refer to the period before they had kids as childfree when it is being used against childfree people

"I was childfree until I had kids and I always worked Christmas so I don't see why childfree people dont want to always work Christmas"

"I was childfree until I had kids and no one ever told me I would die alone/I would be lonely in old age so I dont think it happens"

"I was childfree until I had kids so I know you never know true love until you have had children"

"I know what being childfree for life is like because I was childfree until I had kids"

Ive seen all of these and others on MN some from parents coming onto the childfree board specifically to tell us these things. And thats where I personally find the use of childfree by parents an issue because actually not having kids, but intending to have them/not having made a conscious decison about having them or not until you have them is not the same as making a conscious decision not to have them.

So if you know there are several different opinions why did you go to MN and try to get the board split as if there was only one opinion on childfree vs childless and that one opinion happened to be yours?