The official Childfree on MN bingo card

[ItsNotRocketSalad]

We have 24 squares to fill. What lines get trotted out on every thread that discusses the child free?

My suggestions:

1. You'll need my children to be your carers when you're old
2. Only parents understand real love
3. Childfree people shouldn't take annual leave in school holidays

It's not actually really a free choice, not when you consider women as a class. We CF types can get away with not reproducing because other women are doing it enough for the State not to want to force us to.

Romania's Decree 770 is a stark illustration of what happens when the State decides that women aren't bearing enough children. Abortion and contraception outlawed and the childless taxed.

Yeah, but when he renages on that, she's left holding the baby.

And it is a system, it can't not be when so many more women end up as the primary carer compared to men.

So it’s free choice to not have children, but it’s not a free choice to have them? Is that what you’re saying?

To an extent, yes, because some women really want them and can't because of infertility.

But also, that childfree women's choice not to have children is only possible because other women do have children. If every woman or even most women refused to have children, the State would be banning contraceptives faster than you can say "Decree 770".

But also, that childfree women's choice not to have children is only possible because other women do have children. If every woman or even most women refused to have children, the State would be banning contraceptives faster than you can say "Decree 770"

There was a think tank suggestion a couple of years ago that the people who don't have children should be taxed more heavily to incentivise them into having children (there's a thread somewhere on the site about it).

I think having children is both a free choice on a personal level but also not exactly a free choice at a societal level simply because of the overwhelming expectation that being a woman means that at some point you're also going to be a mother.

But also, that childfree women's choice not to have children is only possible because other women do have children. If every woman or even most women refused to have children, the State would be banning contraceptives faster than you can say "Decree 770".

I'm incapable of bearing children as well as being childfree, and I can say with absolute certainty that if the UK went down the lines of taxing childless people to the hilt, I'd emigrate.

I know this wasn't your point, but I'm intrinsically uncomfortable with the notion to mums are to be thanked for preventing us childless women being punished by fascism. Women should be equal citizens regardless as to what we've done with our uteruses.

Well the system is called patriarchy… 😎

Women and girls have been conditioned for millennia to see their central role in life as bearing and raising children.

There was a thread on here a couple of days ago by a mother of a boy who was worth that he chose to play with dolls “still” at the age of 6. Would any parent be concerned about a girl choosing to play with dolls at any age?

That’s the kind of thing I mean.

And in agreement with @fitzwilliamdarcy (as usual !)

I lived in Australia for a while and they were certainly starting to tax childless and single people by stealth when I was there (about 25 years ago) by imposing an extra healthcare tax if you were single and/or childless - you had limited or no access to Medicare bulk billing and basically you had to have private healthcare. Tax by stealth

And I've had versions of the childfree colleague takes advantage of parents having to leave work to do childcare by working more hours and so getting promoted suggested to me. More like "Oh, you don't have the difficulty of mixing a career with children" As if I've somehow cheated.

It's that we haven't suffered.

Parents already do get lots more money funnelled their way, at least if they are on low to mid incomes. I'm not saying they shouldn't - there's a wider issue here with it being acceptable for companies to pay unlivable wages relying on state top-ups - but the fact remains if you are childfree/childless you get nothing in wage top-ups and an amount you can barely live off if on benefits.

There was a scheme in Australia to encourage more children wasn’t there. “One for mum, one for dad and one for the country”.

Bloody hell. And did the mothers get given fetching red gowns & white caps?

Grim. We all know capitalism (and therefore pensions) rely on a big pyramid scheme with more and more good little workers born every year. But we have to accept it isn't sustainable in any sense of the word. It'll be brutal and ugly when the pyramid collapses but it has to happen.

I'm intrinsically uncomfortable with the notion to mums are to be thanked for preventing us childless women being punished by fascism

As you said, that wasn't my point. I'm not advocating that anyone be thanked for having kids. I'm making an observation grounded in political realism.

It’s closer to home than Australia - France used to (I don’t know if they still do) have healthy tax breaks for parents as well as material incentives like getting given a suitably large car if you had a certain number of sprogs.

This was around 2006 - I don’t know if the policy is still in action. I remember being pretty shocked when being taught about it at a girls school.

Urgh.

Sounds like an unpleasant combination of a Communist policy and a WWII recruitment poster.

<shudders>

That was Peter Costello's slogan.

'In 2002, The Baby bonus scheme was reintroduced by the Federal Government of Australia in the 2002 budget was aimed at offsetting the expenses associated with bearing a child. The scheme was also introduced as a means of increasing Australia's fertility rate and to mitigate the effects of Australia's ageing population. Costello famously had a slogan to encourage Australians to "have one for mum, one for dad and one for the country".' (Wikipedia)