IMHO some people have gone completley batty

[RTKangaMummy]

IMHO some people have gone batty

Some of the mad ideas I have read on here in last couple of days

Bonkerz the lot of them

How they treat their nannies or au pairs

They work long hours for not much pay.

There are some very fair parents who are working hard AND treat their au pair with

RESPECT

KINDNESS

But others

who spend all their time finding something to moan about.........

Why can they not treat them the same way they would like their DD to be treated if she wanted to become an au pair?

Would they want their DD to work in same circumstances?

LOOKING AFTER CHILDREN IS THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB IN THE WORLD

THEY ARE OUR FUTURE

It is also the best job in the world and the most fun,

seeing their faces when they have completed a jigsaw puzzle

learnt how to build a tower with 3 bricks

Please remember to treat others as you would like to be treated

.......

She isn't looking after children today, she said earlier that her mindee's mother is on maternity leave.

Kangamummy, I'm really worried about you. If you want to talk, I'm here for a while.

OOps - apologies if I wasn't very nice back there didn't mean to be just couldn't beliefe the thread was still going.

I am going to stop posting on it now and hope Kanga is ok.

Yes, we have a foursome! I rarely get that many people on my team around here.

But, seriously, Kanaga did make thinly veiled personal attacks. The reason I recognise them is because they are in fact directed at me. She did this by referencing things I have said on past threads (and taken them out of context I might add) but didn't tell anyone what she was doing so most of the people reading this thread don't realise that these comments come from elsewhere. But, Kanga knew what she was doing, and so did I, which I why I exposed this technique many many post down this thread.

BTW, Crunchie, I don't mind you using my name at all. I appreciate the defense.

And, furthermore, for Kanga to start this row and then in the end play the poor pitiful me card as if SHE has been unjustly attacked is really pretty immature.

Oh oh oh.... speaking of Tanzie's thread. Remember the guest1 poster on NJ and no one could figure out who it was. The key to the puzzle seems to have been the use of the word riled.... and someone just used that word?????? Any belated confessions on offer??????

i'm happy to call a spade a spade: i think it's disgusting to boast about how little you pay your childcarer, and i think you have in the past been guilty of this uwila. I also think that most children do suffer when a long term carer is changed: not irrevocably perhaps, but in a way that needs sensitivity and focus during and after the change. to argue that becuase your child ignored the carer, therefore she wasn't affected and isn't she resilient might be true. on the other hand, she might be demonstrating a form of insecurity which defends by detaching.

rtkanga is not doing a good job of making an important point: we have complex relationships with the people that care for our children in our stead: we want them to love our children, but some of us don't want our children to love them back, and to reserve that love for us as parents. its easy to see how an ambivalence towards childcarers is commonplace: you're v important as you're looking after my children/you're not that important, and definitely replaceable as i am the main person in my children's life. In my opinion, however hard it is, we need to respect (yes that dreaded word) the childcarers enough to realise that they are crucial people in our childrens lives, and act accordingly.

Ummm, have no idea what the intrigue-in-question is, but riled is a v common word especially in the Midlands and further North....

i'm happy to call a spade a spade: i think it's disgusting to boast about how little you pay your childcarer, and i think you have in the past been guilty of this uwila.

Show me where I've said this. Perhaps I have lashed out in anger on the subject when being criticised for the small amount I have to offer??? I honestly don't recall. But, I hesitate to accept that I go around boasting about my financial situation, which is in fact an enormous source of distress at this point in my life.

ok uwila. it was a long time ago anyway. I'm sorry you're distressed about your financial situation (maybe that was why you were pleased at how little you were paying your nanny/aupair). Personal attacks are crap and i've just been drawn into one. so sorry. but the rest of my post stands: do you not think that it's true that childcarers should be accorded real respect (in much the same way that perhaps someone who was an MD might be, or a Justice of the Peace?), i'm frustrated that the real point being made, which as i interpret it is a valid one, is being ignored because of emoticons and fluff. it seems to me that there is a gender reason for this too. it strikes me that any job that is done predominantly by women suffers to some extent from this (this is aside from the ambivalence felt by parents that i've gone into below): childcare is one example, but the status of teaching has dropped massively since women entered the profession and the same is beginning to happen with law and medicine.

back to my main point. we should treat the people that care for our children as part of our family...to our children they often are as important as family imho...i think it's wrong and not in a child's best interests to dismiss them as replaceable, poorly qualified, cheap labour.

ok uwila. it was a long time ago anyway. I'm sorry you're distressed about your financial situation (maybe that was why you were pleased at how little you were paying your nanny/aupair). Personal attacks are crap and i've just been drawn into one. so sorry. but the rest of my post stands: do you not think that it's true that childcarers should be accorded real respect (in much the same way that perhaps someone who was an MD might be, or a Justice of the Peace?), i'm frustrated that the real point being made, which as i interpret it is a valid one, is being ignored because of emoticons and fluff. it seems to me that there is a gender reason for this too. it strikes me that any job that is done predominantly by women suffers to some extent from this (this is aside from the ambivalence felt by parents that i've gone into below): childcare is one example, but the status of teaching has dropped massively since women entered the profession and the same is beginning to happen with law and medicine.

back to my main point. we should treat the people that care for our children as part of our family...to our children they often are as important as family imho...i think it's wrong and not in a child's best interests to dismiss them as replaceable, poorly qualified, cheap labour.

Sophable I can actually understand your argument, at least you've got a coherent and valid one. Sorry, but Kanga didn't really have one, which made it look like the whole point of the thread was not to discuss what is a very interesting and important topic, but to have a dig at other Mumsnetters without coming straight out and saying so.

Kanga, I'm sorry if that wasn't your intention, but it really is what it looked like (to me at least).

Message withdrawn

It's okay sophable. I think I did once say something many moons ago about being glad that I had better shopping skils than other parents. But, in fairness, it was said in anger when I was being attacked by many for being a horribly mum. There was another comment from someone on that very same thread that read "I would have a dog let alone a child if I only had an hour a day to look after it" or something like that. The posters user id was critic and he/she hasn't been seen on this site since that day... presumably because critic isn't his/her usual name on mumsnet. Anyway, I most certainly don't want to relive that thread. But, I just wanted to make the point that I did once say something about the ow wage, but I don't go around gloating about. Anyway... enough said on this topic.

Also, I think for me the most offensive part of Kanga's messages is that by repeatedly telling people to respect their carers seems to imply that they do not. And when asked about this by many people she could not explain so that resulted in us getting more and more insistant on her telling us just what she meant by respect and what exactly were we being accused of.

you still haven't explained what you meant, uwila, by your comment on that other thread "I could be a teacher...but then how on earth would I pay my nanny?!! ( smiley emoticon)". Was it intended to be a dig at how little teachers earn in comparison to you? or was it a strangely backhanded compliment of some kind? be interested in a response here.....

Perhaps we ought to post this question on the thread in question... and was I asked to explain that? Must have missed that question.

I don't recall anyone boasting about how little they pay their domestic staff. Those people on the low end of the earnings scale seem to be saying that they are paying as much as they can possibly afford without actively going into debt.

Why doesn't someone come out and say that a nanny is not a suitable arrangement for them, if that's what they really mean. Or that working is not right either if the figures just don't seem to add up.

OTOH, if the main point of working while the children are small is to keep the continuity of their career, is that the same as saying they are investing in their career, and therefore would it be appropriate to go into debt during these years in order to pay closer to the market average on domestic help?

hi Lurker alert after lurking lots I can see why RTKM asks for people to respect the carers of their children. Some of the things I have read have me! But I suppose the issue really is empathy, to understand the difficult position of both parent and carer and to appreciate both! My sister was a nanny aged 18 she used to phone home in tears! and I am sure that her employers were not horrible people or felt they treated her unfairly - but maybe didn't understand the stresses of being a very young live in nanny away from home - and working 12+ hrs a day? Looking after kids is a really important job and I am sure the way the carer is made to feel - affects the quality of care they give. My boss gets huffy at me - I go on MN - hence I don't do my job well! iyswim

Ahem

What Uwila actually said (in former incarnation as CassieD) was:

However, I am glad that I don't pay as much as you guys do for childcare grin]

(that should have been)

Thanks, CD... not! I already referenced that conversation, explained it's context and said I really didn't want to relive that thread, but now that you've given enough information for the whole conversation to be dug up, I suspect I'll be reliving it soon.

cd, uwila already explained that remark - an off the cuff comment in the midst of a very heated thread - don't agree with the sentiment but hey i have said things on mn that i regret before now. cassied - and imho working mums in general - got a real kicking on that thread, which i think i mentioned at the time.

Hold on girls - we are entitled to get annoyed, down, peeved, upset, etc.... with our childcare - I did this week and have to say Uwila was a source of support to me. I went on with a rant and a moan but it was just the way i felt at the time. We are all HUMAN and not PERFECT and no matter what the job is we can all complain. For example - milkman comes late and DD is left without her milk I will rant for her sake not particularly mine. IYKWIM

What's wrong with being glad that you don't pay as much for childcare/ food/ your car/ clothes/ school fees/ whatever than other people?

Is there something morally wrong with being relieved that you don't have such high bills for a particular aspect of your life than somebody else? I really don't get this.