What would you do in this childcare situation? Nanny or boarding school?

[Pawslikepaddington]

In three years (miles away, I know, but I'm already worrying!) I will have an 8 y/o dd. I am a single parent and I can't see that changing. For one year, I will be working 8am until 10pm almost every weekday, and so don't know what would be best.

My hours after that year will be bad, but I can bring work home, so will not be stuck in the office, so am more likely to be able to pick dd up from school and drop her off etc.

I went to a boarding school at 11, and those that boarded from 8 loved going (she would be a weekly boarder), but to me 11 seems too young, let alone 8. But on the plus side she would be able to stay on at the school then as a day pupil once this awful year was over.

Dd will have to move schools that year anyway, as we have to move out of the area we are in at the moment (she is in state at the moment, and will stay in state if we get a nanny).

A nanny seems like a much better option for me, but would they be ok with these kind of hours? They seem very long! And we would be talking a lot of money wouldn't we, as I would have to leave the house at 6.30/7am each morning, so the nanny would have to be there from 6.30am until 10pm.

This is worst case scenario hours-wise, but sadly it also looks like it will be the most likely one. I know this is a dreadful situation to put dd in, but it is for the best, or I would not be doing it. I feel dreadful about it already.

haven't read every post, but....

would echo those saying that -pupillage really is unlikely to be the hours you say on a regular basis. in my st we expect pupils to be there 8 to 6 tops... save for the emergencies / crises / etc.

would also echo that actually the first ?5 years of tenancy if you get one will be harder than pupillage if you are successful ie busy and therefore earning money... you are low down the feeding chain, you will be dumped on at the eleventh hour and taken advantage of by solicitors. it is not an easy life.

i speak as someone on sabbatical after 20 years at the bar.... because my practice simply wasnt compatible with family life as i wanted it to be. a lot of my (male) colleagues succeed because they work all hours, have sah wives and rarely see their children in the week. i would be leaving house most mornings at 7 ish, getting home 7 ish. seeing dcs for hour or so then working for 3 hours.... regularly. working at least one day w/es, taking files away on holiday and taking calls at home at all hours. it really really ground me down and that was with a fab dh who did loads at home. we had a f/t live out nanny who was fab too..... but it became untenable for me.

it is a great career in many ways.... the money if you are good, the status, the other people, the using your brains etc.... BUT it has its v real difficulties too. i'm not saying dont do it, but just think long and hard before setting oiff down a path that may have too high a price tag attached.

I know this is a horrid question to ask, and I don't actually know why I am asking it, but why, when people talk about not having it all, are you demonised if you choose your career over your dd (which I would not-I repeat, I would not!)?

I am not the best mum-I love her to pieces and show her every minute of every day, but I am not a patient mum, or a natural baker, or a good housekeeper, or play date arranger, or school international day costume maker (I didn't make one this year, and she was beside herself. If she had a nanny or was a boarder she would have had a costume, so it is better for her in some ways, as they are better to my child than I am in these areas). I am a good student, and would be a good lawyer, but because I have children it feels like these are bad things to be IYSWIM, as I should automatically default to the ultimate SAHM.

Dd will be home for another ten years after this, after which I have another 30 years on my own. If I do choose a simpler job for a nice home life, then I will have 30 years where I will want to work long hours as I will have nothing and no one to come home to, as dd will be off living her life, and I am worried that if I truncate my options now it will cut off avenues then. Obviously, I want to be at home with dd until she flies the nest, but I don't want to feel unfulfilled in later life because I was given the chance when I was younger and didn't take it.

Paws - my sweetie - we have sorted it for you:

1 Employ a nanny
2 Get a First
3 Become a solicitor
4 Go to a good regional firm.

Now please go and do what we say because we really do know best you know

Ok lisalisa, thank you (bows meekly and gets embarrased about crazy woman outburst that she didn't mean, and kisses her dd 100 times for even thinking of abandoning her for high flying career). P.S. what do you know about Taylor Vintners solicitors-apparently they are eager to have someone like me!)

Paws

I have dealt with TV before but can't remember anything specific - quite a good website.

Trust me - you will be a zillion times happier as a trainee and then qualified solicitor in a good regional firm where you don't have to commute up to 3 hours per day and you can see your dd properly and regularly and where they are bound to take a more pragmatic approach to time off for sports day/xmas play and all these tiny but monumentally important things that are soon going to become a big part of your dd's life./
Contrast that to a life of commuting to the bar each day and being tied to the whim of magic circle guys ( sorry being sexist here) who have no families at home or have obliging SAHM so doesn't enter their radar screen to leave before midnight and who call your clerk at 6.oopm with an "urgent" paper for a Junior and guess who's landed?

It just isn't worth it. Be the master of your own destiny and join a good regional, work your way up to Partner and reap the better life. Even with overtime at regional in cambridge with jacket on back of seat mentality you'd still be home by 7.00pm tops.

One more piffling little insignificant minute grain of a question-what would I be earning at somewhere like TV in ten years? Tis not a factor, just want to know that I may be able to buy dd the 10 years time version of UGG boots for her 16th

Paws, I would add that I have commuted to London and worked for someone high flying and pretty self-centred despite his best efforts, and it's blardy knackering. I only did it for a year, but then told him politely to stuff his job. I tell you, those Cambridge to London trains are a total nightmare.

Around that time, DH bought a new digital camera and was testing it one evening and took some pictures of me hunched over the laptop in my bathrobe at 10pm one evening finishing something off ... I look about 20 years older with dark rings around my eyes, I was so tired.

That having been said, it did propel my career up about five notches, so ultimately worth it. In the short term.

Another point - even as an academic I could have bought my daughter Ugg boots if she wanted them. So you need less money than you think.

Paws, I would go nanny for sure - boarding school would leave you with problems in holidays as much as anything else, and being at home, even with another carer, is much more familiar and less disrupting than being in a new school

if you are being a pupil barrister, as seems to be the case, aren't you being rather gloomy about the hours?

My neice is a pupil barrister and she works hours like this - and she works weekends as well. I just don't think it's compatible with having a child. Sorry. Just imagine a whole year (at least) of your child's life where you saw her for one day a week if you were lucky.

Paws, good luck whatever you decide, and hats off to you for your endeavours. You have provoked some really interesting dilemmas and had some great responses on the thread...

for what it's worth, I think the most important part of this is not to see it as one year of your or your dds life but as what you want from a total career

to choose to be a barrister because life will be easy is not a good plan, particulalry if you don't like advocacy that much

on the other hand to choose to be a solicitor just because you think you can't leave your daughter with a nanny/ in boarding school for one year is also not a good long term plan

I don't know the answer but worry that the whole plan rests on this one year (but of course it was the one year that the post was about!)

Paws, just read your thread. I know some posters seem a bit rough on you but its their opinion.. Heres mine... I would do lots of searching and send your dd to boarding school. Bullying happens at EVERY school, boarding state, grammar or otherwise, you just have to listen to your child and act accordingly. If you employ a nanny she may move on, schools dont, she would be getting stability, long term support and friendship. I have several friends who boarded and they loved it.

Best of luck to you with your decision..

Still feel like my head is going to explode! He he! I am basing all this (obviously) on a single income and needing to pay rent of £900-ish p/m, which is a lot to ask of a single income, so even with all the best principles and motherly intentions in the world, money still plays (quite a whopping) part in it-I will get £7k at TV (regional firm) for LPC year I think, but may get nothing, and will need to pay my own (£10k) LPC fees, and will join teh following year on £21k. It just doesn't look like it is going to be enough as I will have to be paying back my LPC loan AND my student loan, AND my rent etc as well. Although obviously nanny savings wouldn't be needed as much. Urgh! Can I not just stay a student? Then my rent is less and my life is 1000x easier!

If the Bar is want you want to do, give it a go!

Some thoughts from a mother of 3 under fives in a so-called "top commercial set".

Am astonished that any set would expect a pupil to work 10-8. Our pupils do 9-6.30/7 and are not allowed to work weekends. Only exception is major crisis which is rare.

Personally, think it is much easier to combine work and motherhood at the Bar than as a solicitor. In commercial sets like mine, you are rarely in court and can do a lot at home. You can also plan your workload.

My experience is that it is much harder to do this at a city law firm where there is still a serious "hours culture" and if you want to be made partner, you need to be available at unsocial hours. A great advantage of the Bar is you are one further step (and it's a big step) removed from the client.

The Bar in general is very worried about women giving up when they have a family and I think Chambers will bend over backwards to help you.

One thing I think is essential, though, is to live as close to Chambers as possible to so would seriously consider moving to London for a few years.

Good luck!

I do I do I do-it is all I have wanted to do for the past ten years (hangs head in shame, but also loves slummymama for saying all of the above as small rays are poking through my big fat clouds!). I can't bear the thought (yet) of doing all the Cambridge stuff (I came here stating I would go to the bar or give up the law! at that!), when I could have got the same job if I had gone to Leeds uni, with a lesser stress and work load, lesser living expenses, and being closer to dd's father's family (therefore making my life easier as his mum loves dd, but obviously doesn't want to travel to see her, so sees her rarely).

Have no probs with moving to London, but my main caveat would be moving there during my BVC year, so that I would have a year of normality with dd before it all goes a bit crazy! It could be ok if I chose my set wisely couldn't it (batters eyelids in Rumpole-type QC's direction)

P.S. Wow-have never been on a thread with so many posts, let alone started one-thank you all my angels of wisdom!

Paws, I have been following this thread for the past few days but did not post. I just wanted to say I think you are a total star - I am a lone parent too, but ten years older than you and I take my hat off to you. You are doing exactly the right thing by planning ahead. You don't have to decide now, but it is good to think about all the options. I bet you will know when it comes to it what the right thing to do is.

You are absolutely right to think about your career, and don't let anyone tell you differently. You need to be able to provide for your DD, AND you sound like lots of us in that you need work too for a happy and fulfilled life. There's nothing at all wrong with being ambitious.

Just to add, the PhD route is well worth pursuing - you get to stay a student for 3/4 years more, it is a very interesting challenging job, the pay is about double the national average, and being an academic is definitely compatible with childcare. (I am one!)

Good luck with your planning!

I'd have thought a nanny/housekeeper would take a massive weight off your shoulders given the hours you say you will be working. Boarding school would be much more stressful for both you and your DD. You want someone to do childcare (but an 8 year old DD at school won't need masses of childcare), housework, shopping, cooking and laundry.

Paws, not sure how much space you will have, but two au pairs may be cheaper than a nanny, or you may be able to manage with an au pair plus and a bit of after school activites. Au pairs can work really well for that age.

wanted to add to slummymamas positive spin
have a look in February's Counsel magazine, first in a series of articles about maternity leave and the bar, not directly on point but helpful

get in touch with an inn, student officer will help, and also bar council and the equal ops and diversity committee

I thikn the pupillage year will not be the problem it will be the years in early practice when you have no guarantee of income and more limited ability to control work and no pupil supervisor to care for you, but it is not impossible

I am a mum and a barrister and love it (and have a live in nanny housekeeper) I think I have the best of every world

and yes, I am presently at desk working mnetting!

Paws, I think that the fact that you are putting so much thought into how to sort this it reflects how much you care for dd. She will grow up with a fab role model, and a mum to be proud of. Have you asked her what her preference would be?

Hey there Pawslikepaddington how did the fancy newspaper piece go? Can you link to it?

I agree with nanny/housekeeper. You'll be paying a fortune for a nanny and still have to pay a cleaner etc. If you find a nanny/housekeeper they'll also do all the cleaning, cooking, supermarket shopping, errands, laundry and ironing.

Well done to you for planning in advance. I'm not a lawyer, but have barrister friends who seem to work a lot from home. They do sometimes have to go out of town for a few weeks at a time, but maybe that depends what field you're in.

I have to say that I'm finding pursuing my career quite unsatisfying at the moment, as I also have 3 small kids. It's very difficult (impossible?) to do both things properly. I'm definitely less ambitious than I used to be.

Letswiggle - Am so glad someone else is less ambitious since they have had children-I am much less motivated than I was pre-dd, but I put that down to (especially if you have 3 dc's!!!) being constantly physically and emotionally exhausted! There is only so much you can do, you need your sleep, and you (obviously!) put your dc's before everything, which squeezes careers out! At least I have a two way split between work and dd, you have a four way split!!!

Mspontipine - I have no idea when it is out, but the photoshoot was great fun-people kept walking past and whispering "is that little girl a model? Wow!" but not one asked if I was !

Thank you all so much for being so positive towards me, I don't feel quite as much of an abandoning mum now! I am a bit scared of au pairs , as everyone I know that has used au pairs has had to send them back home for smoking pot/having sex parties/various other bad things!! The only good one I did meet left, because they boys he looked after were incredibly intense boys, and I don't know how he managed!

Go down the nanny housekeeper route - I speak here as the daughter of a barrister, who worked all hours during the week but was THERE at the weekend, and a property analyst, who did the same. I had 3 fantastic nannies (1 not so good one and a string of disastrous au pairs but we'll ignore them) and it made my life: they were young enough to be "cool", old enough to be responsible and provided the wrap-around care that my parents need. You can do both....and your dd will not suffer for it. She will probably benefit hugely in the long run if you get the right person because you really are inspirational!

I'm now 22 and a nanny - working a very similar job to what my nannies used to and what you're describing. I work at least 7am-8pm, with 2 late finishes/overnights per week (I actually prefer them to going home at 8pm!) with time off during the day when my 7yo is at school. It works for me - I can study during the day or see friends. It would be easier if I were live-in and single, but my DP is in the Forces so he's away for months at a time and usually living away during the week anyway. You will be able to find someone to do what you're looking for. I certainly would, but you're probably either looking for a young career nanny looking for a really full-on first job or someone who's not a career nanny but, for whatever reason(s), is doing this for a year or two. I put myself squarely in the latter category, but my employer knows that - I'm not going to be around forever and she likes the fact I have a career plan!

Hi Paws. I went to Cambridge, got a good degree and am working in a good regional. I worked in Reading then Dublin before moving up here. It's great. There are lots of ver clever people (not entirely sure what you meant by your Leeds uni comment - there are people from Leeds uni working in the city, also people from Oxbridge working in the regionals... is this news?). There are a lot of ex-city people who move away "for the lifestyle". Seems to me a good idea to just skip the crappy years and go straight for a decent job with decent hours with people who respect you.

I wouldn't not be a barrister if that's what you really really want, but agree with Lisalisa that it certainly can work as a solicitor. Also - a career as a barrister in the provinces can also work very well...