Childcare vs career and independence.

[Twinmama22]

Looking for advice on childcare and work. Should I give up my job/ become reliant on husband?

I recently gave birth to twins. They are such dream babies. We go everywhere together and they seem to cope whether we are out all day or at home. They are still little so they are fairly easy to look after at this stage. Once weaning and crawling starts I'll be in for a shock.
One of the reasons the babies go everywhere with me is because I have absolutely no childcare where I live. Literally all my family live 100 miles from me. I have good friends where I stay and they offer to help but they work full time, as I did, so can't really help out when I need it. Hubby has a very good job and we are in a privileged position where money isn't too much of a concern. The pay off is he works long hours, although is very hands on and supportive when home.

My dilemma now comes as where we live is a high cost area and the cost of putting them into nursery almost matches what I would earn at work. We also have the chance to buy our dream home close to our families. Its a small town and houses like this don't come up often. Hubby can work remotely with only a few days in the office every few weeks. I however would need to give up my work to allow this move to happen. The current plan was for me to go back 3 days per week and the babies go to nursey, but the cost just doesn't make financial sense.
I have a very specialised role and it's unlikely I would get the same job at home. I've recently completed a masters in this field and whilst I have transferable skills, I really like my job and the people I work with. I also feel guilty and disloyal at leaving my job after they have supported me so well through my training etc. Hubby will support me whatever decision I make but I really don't know what to do.

My options are;
Stay, work and pay someone else most/all of my wage to look after the babies?

Move home, get help from family and cheaper childcare so I can still work... although unlikely to be in my chosen field?

Give up work for say three years and take care of the babies? This would involve me having to retrain upon return, possibly a self funded 6-12 month course. Whilst money isn't a huge issue... I've always worked and been fiercely independent so I'm really struggling with the thought of my husband funding me.

Any advice, guidance, alternative thoughts would be very welcome. It's hard to get an unbiased opinion as all my friends and family want us all closer to home.

Thanks 😊

Your DH must clearly be a shit dad if he’s swanned off back to work without a second thought of all the Making Memories he’s not doing, all those nappies he’s not changing….Bet he’s not researching nurseries and childminders! You aren’t making a free and fair choice if the options are “go back pt and do all the family shitwork” or “stay at home with no financial independence and do all the family shitwork”. You also can’t rely on family help - it may never materialise for a number of reasons.

Parenthood is not a function of how much you earn. You are no less of a mother for going to work, he doesn’t get a pass from dad activities just because he might bring in more money.

Just reading your posts, I don't get the sense that you want to do the move. It sounds like you think you ought to want to but don't.

So I would stay put for now. You can always move later on if you change your mind.

I would just wait and see on return to work - it sounds like you really do like your job so I suspect you will stick with the 3 days a week plan which is a nice balance. Or you might want to stay at home for an extra year or so.

Babies are very different to toddlers and you may well feel very differently by then. Or you might not but I wouldn't move and make it impossible to return to this job preemptively.o

I also just wanted to check whether you have run the numbers correctly for childcare Vs your salary - the way our tax system works, your take home for 3 days will be a lot more than 3/5 of your full time take home (because personal allowance) particularly if your FTE salary is higher rate taxable. And then tax free childcare if you're eligible takes down your childcare costs. And then employer pension contribution as well. Of course with twins, it may still be at the break even point, I just found the numbers when I properly ran them surprised me so I thought I would mention it.

.... posted too soon
...... at nativities, school plays, birthday parties etc, we also became a little resentful of spending every half term driving to granny's!

If you are going to move, I'd advise doing it soon, and develop your baby-network around you, but also think hard about how you'd feel about giving up your career, albeit temporarily. To me, I'd already given up my body. I didn't want to give up my mind as well..

Also- something to factor in if you don't know. Currently, all 3 year olds are entitled to 15 hrs/wk free early years education (nursery/preschool). Different settings apply this differently, in sessions, charging for lunchtimes etc, but it's worth knowing that massive nursery fees don't last forever.

And if you take off two years to look after twins, you save 4 years of childcare costs. So the sums are genuinely different

More thoughts...

Having 2 incomes Hade given us resilience as a family - DH has been made redundant twice since we had dc. Also, I couldn't bear the thought of being dependent on anyone, or DH feeling the pressure of being the sole breadwinner - that just did t seem fair.

I’m going to start this by saying I love my DTs more than anyone else in the world.

I’ve been a sahm since they were born, because childcare would’ve cost our joint household income significantly, and I couldn’t make the number stack up. The first 18 months or so were a delight, age 2-3 was absolutely horrific. Maybe you’ll have delightful toddler twins, mine were… challenging.

I’ve gone from being able to support myself independently, to being financially reliant upon my dh which I hate (despite 100% access to all finances, savings in my name etc) because I feel like I’m at his mercy. He changes his mind, has an affair and leaves me, whatever, I’m fucked. I’ve two kids, out of the work place for 5 years, and will struggle massively to support the three of us to the lifestyle my children are accustomed to. I’ve become the domestic drudge, I’m the default parent so dh can do strange hours where needed, and for me as a woman, it’s been a struggle. I’m not naturally excellent with young children, and it’s been tough. Dh meanwhile has been promoted twice, has 5 years more of pension contributions, excellent earning power, and seems to be praised for just showing up to things I’ve worked like a dog for behind the scenes! As the final kick in the teeth he’s got better looking during this time, and I’m a shrivelled up sack of shit drowning in trying to remember play dates/where shoes are/what bloody new thing the school wants from parents/sports day/car insurance etc.

I honestly wouldn’t recommend to any woman to give up work unless she had absolutely zero choice. Having your own income gives you power and opportunity if shit hits the fan. Even if it’s very part time, just hang on in there, keep going and the childcare bills will ease, and you’ll still have your career, won’t be the default drudge worker or parent on call, and still have your independence and life outside of the kids.

Like I said, I adore my kids please don’t get me wrong. The above might just be failings in me as a person, I don’t know.

Mom of twins myself and a nanny was definitely cheaper than nursery, and would still look after them when minor illness hit (no worries about being called to collect either). Also much easier not having to bundle them out each morning.

if it were me, I would try to stay employed, even if it meant limited hours and no financial gain for a couple of years. I left my job and went freelance after struggling through a year of juggling post mat leave. For about 2 years my work was (intentionally)pretty limited - like 1-2 days per MONTH- but it meant I maintained relationships and skills and when the kids started school it has been much easier to ramp up hours.

There's more benefits than free childcare to being near family. It'll only get more important not less.
Will you get that dream house?
You might hate being a stay at home mum.
Is your husband really supportive and actually excited by the change or is he just not want the responsibility of the decision.

Try and get to his hopes for the future.
I can decide for you if you like 😅sometimes that fixes in your mind what you don't want to do

This was literally me (except with 1 child not twins) 12 years ago no family support but a job and company I liked but child care costs would take all my wages and family was 100s miles away. DH got offered a job 30mins up the road from family but in an area I couldn’t go back to my career so would involve me either not working or picking a totally different career.
Took a while but we made the move and have never looked back we now have 2 children they have an amazing relationship with their grandparents we have never relied on them for childcare though as I decided to take an evening job while they were little they fit round my DH just to get me out the house I have zero regrets not going back to my career and being home with the kids the last 12 years have absolutely flown and you can’t get them back. Now both are at school I still only do part time as juggling all the pick up drops, off , after schools clubs, holidays works better for us this way. Always felt me and DH were team and it’s worked really well for us but it’s such a personal decision I did exactly what I felt was right for me at the time always felt a lot of pressure that I should be doing my career and being a mum but I’m happy and my kids are happy so for us that’s all we needed

Ok, stop thinking about “most of MY wage going on childcare”. Even if in practice you’ve got joint accounts, that’s a bad habit to get into . Your joint salaries must cover childcare. If both of you together can afford childcare, costs of living, pensions, and a mortgage, then you can afford childcare . Yep it’s a big cost but for a relativey short time. Do not make your salary alone the balance book of whether it is worth the expense. Childcare cost is not the responsibility of just mothers to fund.

the cost of giving up work , even for a few years, can be long term and very significant. I’m retired and my pension , even after 40 years of working, is impacted today by the few short years I took off working part time even. Pensions may seem a long way away, but it is why women have pension pots just 30% of typical man’s, and why many women are in pension poverty. Think much longer term here.

Stepping out the workforce will impact you getting back into roles at level you’d have progressed at if you hadn’t. Ok, youll still get motherhood penalty even with maternity leave, but it’ll be worse. There is a gender pay gap - due to unconscious bias that exists around mothers, and then later elder women (aside from race, disability etc) is alive and still kicking strongly

there are other reasons, like not causing stress in the marriage by placing the burden of breadwinner solely on your husbands shoulders - whilst he may be ok now, after 6 years, 10 years etc will he still be unphased - especially when kids are at school full time? Do you really, then, want to be full time domestic goddess and chief bottle washer? I had to go back to work full time (form part time) earlier than expected as my husband became ill- we never planned that. Luckily I could step up my hours and become full time sole breadwinner - I reminained that for next 15 years . Yep, I wasn’t happy about it, but I was thankful I had means to easy transition and then maximise my earning potential to keep the roof over our heads. We needed a full time professional salary to do that.

id also add that by being a SAHM, you will inevitably take on burden of all domestic jobs, emotional labour etc. not just looking after kids, but becoming your dh personal PA, housekeeper etc. whilst that may be ok in short term, once partners have been tested to that sort of service for a few years, it’s a bloody hard habit and role to break. It appears many partners seem to forget how they used to have to look after themselves and do their own thinking re domestic matters. Don’t overlook that, even most sharing of partners get into that just because they forget.

so, all in all very good reasons to keep on working

contrary to what it seems on MN, many women, including me, had no family support. It isn’t unusual as professionals, to be working well away from your family locations, and have to support childcare on your own. First, your company HAS TO give a very good reason by law as to why they would deny you leave for emergency isssue under your rights to parenteral leave. I wonder what your job is that you say you could not leave in emergency- very few employers would prevent an employee leaving in an emergency of any sort let alone with children. Perhaps try to Negotiate a flexible arrangement of up to 10 unpaid leave days per year which you can use for emergencies up front. So what if dh has to be main contact for emergencies- that happens to women all the time that they’re the ones that ”have to” leave work or take leave cos dh are too “busy”.

having said all that, twins does make it a lot harder. Right now you’re also with small babies- the thought of returning to work is , of course, unthinkable, but by time they’re 1 year old there will be a big difference in them and you. Don’t make rash decisions just now. Don’t tell work anything other than you’re returning. Take your time

Being a full time mum is a privilege these days, and I admire any women who can be happy and fulfilled in giving up her independence long term for that role. I’m sure children probably do benefit from mum at home for first few years- but they don’t turn out terribly at all with mums that work 🤷🏼‍♀️. Each to their own. But be sure you’ve considered the downsides long term, and make provision for your loss of security ( even as couple in terms of one of you can’t work/looses job) , pensions, wage in the long term

I work in a career where if I left now it would be v challenging to return in a few years.

We have the most amazing child minder. My little boy gave her a huge cuddle when he saw her this morning at drop off. He learns and enjoys activities at her home that I know I wouldn’t provide.

For me personally, looking after a baby/toddler 24/7 would be relentless and I would likely be a grumpier mum. I feel I genuinely have the best of both worlds working three days a week, enjoying my time with my little boy, and able to enjoy my “grown up” work life safe in the knowledge he is looked after by someone I trust and who he loves.

I was in a similar situation as you.
Twins 3 years after a single birth.
This was before childcare help, there was some when they were 3 but we didn’t qualify as they didn’t deduct from earnings the cost of nursery.
We sent them to nursery from 8months old as I had to take early maternity leave as I could hardly walk carrying them and my office was four flights up ( my boss had a ground floor office but no offer to swap with me ) and the toilet was four floors down.

The cost was more than half our joint salary.
It ate into our savings and yes technically one of us was working to send them to nursery but neither of us wanted to give up work for a few years as it does affect progression ( depending on your job I suppose) .

This is a choice for both you and your husband to decide.
Maybe you each work part time, maybe one gives up work but it shouldn’t be just down to you to potentially sacrifice your own career and progression.

I really would not give up your job. Even though you won't gain anything financially for a couple of years, you will not have sacrificed your career. Anything could happen, and I would not want to be so exposed. You've got a lovely job, think of a part time nanny and go from there. There is life beyond the next couple of years.

Childcare is a joint family expense. It’s not coming out of ‘your wages’. I cannot stress how important it is to understand this. Keep your career and jointly pay for your joint children. Husband needs to contribute to drop offs and sick days as well. He did realise that’s what having children meant, didn’t he?

Consider a nanny rather than nursery then you’ve got a bit more resilience if one of them is ill. I would go back to work part time, the cost of childcare is short term compared to the loss of earnings and career satisfaction if you don’t go back.

Try to take the money issue out of it and think about what you really want to do. It sounds like you have the luxury to do that and I think as women we feel pressured to say the choice whether to work or not is forced on us.
Working or staying home are both great choices for different women- do what feels right in your heart and know you don't have to stick with the same choice forever.

The dream house and deciding between two job dilemmas and childcare while very important, are not the main considerations. Ask yourself what you want more, to be with your babies for a few short years or to hold onto your career at this time.

That will be your answer.

You need to reframe this in your head so that:
—the childcare costs are from your “joint salary” (you would still be getting payrises, maybe bonus, pension, experience, maybe promotions)
—your husband is now a dad, he’s not continuing life exactly the same as before

Now, I found children at nursery very easy to work around (I did 4 days/wk), it was when they went to school that I went part-time to 3.5 days and this was approved because I’d put the time in proving I could be relied on.
So I’ve managed to keep hold of a well paid job but at the same time was around enough during their younger years. I’m not sure how I’d be earning what I am now if I took a big career break. Also, having now split from DH, I’ve still got a decent salary to live on. I know now everyone gets the opportunity to work part-time, but it’s both the best of both worlds and also the worst!

It won't be your entire wage as your husband will pay half towards nursery fees so you will have half your salary left.

Women on here always say I will spend all MY wages On childcare like its only the mother that pays.

Anyway do whatever is best for you. If you love your job stay but realistically in the working world you are only a number who is easily replaced and forgotten.

I say this to everyone who posts this question on here: Do not give up your career. I cannot stress this strongly enough. Go part time or do consultancy or set up a small business or use those skills in a voluntary capacity or whatever, but above all else keep your hand in and your name known in the field. There are a few reasons I say this:

1. Childcare costs are high but they are short term. Your salary will be able to used for the good of the whole family once they go to school in 3-4 years.
2. You keep adding to your pension contributions.
3. You do not know what the future holds. If (and I sincerely hope it doesn’t) your DH is no longer able to work at any point (or you split up) you will still be able to support your household.
4. If you leave the field for any length of time it becomes much harder to be reemployed at the same level and maintain/develop your skills. You lose your network and new people come in and take your place.

I’m not saying you should go full time unless you want to, and by all means explore options for going part time/hybrid etc. - even 1 day a week in the short term - to make it work for your family, but do not lose the independence and skills you have worked so hard for. Once they go to school you will start wanting to pick up the reins, particularly once they hit secondary school, and it is much easier to pick up loose reins than dropped reins.

Nursery fees are taken from the whole family pot not just your salary.

Nursery years are short.

Don’t give up your financial independence to to dependent on a man, even one who you think you are never going to split with.

And what everyone else says is right - childcare is a household expense - not yours alone.

People say “they’re not young for long” usually meaning spend as much time with them as you can.

But I’d suggest not getting too hung up on the first couple of years, I’d focus on what you want you’d family life to be like when they’re starting school. Where will you live? Can you work there in a job that fulfills you etc?

life With school age children is 13 years long, don’t make decisions now for the baby stage without setting yourself up well for the next stage.

I'm sahp, I love it. I really do. It's the best decision I've ever made. But it's hard and it can be tough on your relationship. And if you have the choice I don't think you should do it unless you really really want to. I have an incredibly supportive husband and loads of childcare back ups. It's still hard and easy to get resentful of him and some aspects of my life. And that's with all the help and with loving it. So I think unless you will be at a loss permanently with childcare I wouldn't let that dictate your choice. You have to just really want it.

Personally I think totally coming out of work is the worst option. I see so many women say they will do it for 1/2/3 years and then they possibly have another baby and its another 3, then they think all school runs are their responsibility so it becomes harder and harder and they never really go back.
10/15 years down the line they are resentful that they do everything at home and their partner is probably resentful that they provide everything financially but it is viewed as nothing.

In the long run it is better to stay in work even if childcare matches your salary. You are still up once you factor in pension and then the fees reduce massively at 3 so it is only for 2 years.

Imo longterm the best option is for both parents to work, eventually on reduced hours once you start earning enough, and both to parent equally.
You can make that work in your current location or moving to be near your family, but moving to be near your family isn't really a reason you need to come out of work.