Nannying = farming out your child - big mistake?

[WorkingMumD]

Hi, wanted some views. When I was in my 30s I was in London in a good job and so when I gave birth it seemed like the right thing to get a nanny to look after my daughter. Everyone did it! And it didn't seem weird. Now 17 years later, having talked to my daughter about it, I feel like it's the biggest mistake ever made.
She was traumatised by not having me around and couldn't tell me as she was so young and didn't want to upset her mummy. After 2.5 years of using a nanny, I felt it was wrong and so I did give up my job and we moved somewhere quieter and cheaper so I could be at home more with her, but the damage was done. She had a very very difficult teenage phase where we got on incredibly badly and now is able to say it tracks back to because she felt unwanted and unhappy when younger. She's now raised this a number of times, with me, doctors and mental health professionals. I'm quite devastated by it on a personal level as her dad and I worked so hard to try to give her a good, loving stable family home with everything she wanted - and she always seemed happy. I've told her I regret it, but I did change everything for her and the only way to put it right is by not doing it for her own children and by learning from it. I just wondered if anyone else had a similar experience? And/or what you would advise?

How does she even remember that far back? The first memory I have is age 8+. Not too invalidate her feelings but sounds like she’s looking for someone to blame.

It is normal for teens to reflect on childhood and find parents lacking. I thought I was a pretty great parent, I worked as a childminder so I could be at home with my kids. They made loads of great friends (a few they are still close to 15 years on) we did so many day trips, crafts activities. They genuinely had fun at the time. Years later their narrative was that I never paid them attention, I put the paid children first. Also our divorce, which happened when dc were 3 and 5 and was pretty smooth. Not to takeaway from childrens feelings but ibb by think part of being a teen is trying to understand how you feel and it's easier to blame your parents for things. I'd try to be empathetic but without urging fault at your own door. You did the best you could at the time one day she will probably experience the challenges of adulthood and realise it's not that easy.

But that does not mean that a toddler needs to spend every waking moment with their mother, and it does not mean that a child and nanny can't have a close secondary attachment.

It's not the same bond and a child can miss a mother terribly even though the nanny is a really warm, nice, kind, attentive, positive, and fun person.

A secondary attachment is not the same as the primary attachment. It may have all sorts of positives going for it but it isn't the same. It will always be 'less than' in a child's mind.

Sometimes arrangements which are well thought out solutions to practical problems don't strike children as reasonable or rational when they are children. All they know is that the afternoon drags on for a long time while they are waiting for mommy to come home.

She's honed in on something she senses will hit a nerve and is guilt tripping you.
I think you need to tackle this firmly and stop being her whipping boy.
I bet she's not accusing her father of abandoning her, is she?
My late mum used to say "a mother's place is in the wrong" ne'er a truer word spoken!

I have loads of memories up until from I was just turned 4. I can describe the house I lived in in a lot of detail, the playgroup I attended a handful of times age 3, going to see someone, who was dying when I was 2 as they gave me something. My mother was incredulous when as an adult I just matter of described the hospital visit and accurately describes the present she gave me.

Other people have fewer memories, some will have more. Just because people don’t necessarily actively remember something, it doesn’t mean they cannot be affected positively or negatively by an event. Babies are little sponges and a product of their environment.

You were doing your best op and I think this has really upset you because of your feelings of guilt from this time. Children don’t come with a manual. However, I don’t think it is useful to dismiss this as your dd is privileged so file this in the bin marked brat. It could be in part that she’s made this up in her head because she’s sensed or heard your guilt but I would treat it as real. Perhaps she wants to fit in with her friends and this is a way of doing it. She only knows her experience and fighting against this, invalidating her feelings right now isn’t going to make either of you happy.

My dd is also massively privileged and is acting rather spoiled at the moment. However at 13, she only knows what she knows and cannot imagine what it is like for those, who have difficult lives, fewer opportunities or inattentive parents. At times I get cross with her complaining and yet know if I koko, it’s just another stage, which will pass.

If you make this about how much more privileged she is than her friends, you’re othering her, making her appear ungrateful. It won’t go away. She’ll just pull away. All you can do is listen, tell her how sorry you are she felt that way and move on from there. Make this the thing, which pulls you together and use it to put an end to your feelings of guilt.

I do actually agree with you despite my post. For me though, it won’t be resolved if she feels invalidated, which is why I said listen, apologise for how she felt then move on. The boundary then becomes we talked about that, you know I accept how you feel and despite not being able to change the past, I would do it differently now. So we move on and make today and our future the one, we are happy with.

Society will never move on whilst teenage girls have the attitude that mothers shouldn’t work (which is really what this boils down to).

She’s casting around for reasons to feel wronged and like she’s suffered as a child. She perhaps feels guilt at her own privilege compared to those around her?

However, laying into you and not her father is bullshit. She needs to wise up and grow up. You did nothing wrong.

Of course a secondary carer does not replace a primary one, but that does not mean that a toddler needs a primary carer 24/7. It does not mean that secondary carers cannot be a positive experience, and just because carers are paid, it does not mean that they are not a valuable part of a child 's "village".

For what it's worth, there is NO consistent scientific grade proof that shows that care only by parent being better for kids. What there is proof of is that parents having a choice about whether they use childcare is better for kids. Ie, parent who wants to use formal childcare is able to = better for kid. Parent who wants to stay home is able to = better for kid.

What's the evidence base that a child who is not with their mother 24:7 suffers damage or psychological wounding while with a consistent, loving secondary caregiver, such as dad, or aunt, or grandmother, or nanny?

Is she studying psychology atm? Or getting weird skewed views on attachment theory from tiktok?
I work with teenagers and hear this shite day in day out. I play the worlds smallest violin for these spoiled brats.

She's using this to beat you with because she knows it hits your buttons. Whatever her struggles are, it's nothing to do with her being traumatised by having a nanny at 2.

Tell her to go aim it at her dad because he also left her with a nanny and let her get on with it. Stop apologising for it.

I had an amazing nanny who loved me and enriched my life. She was not professionally trained but was like a second mother to me. She adored me and I have many memories of her and they are warm and wonderful.

My brother has a nanny who came with great references but was brusque, uncaring, left him to cry etc. By the book, obviously impressive to parents I the activities she organised etc, but not loving or affectionate to us as children.

I do think early care shapes us and I would not deny your DD's experience. She knows how she felt. Material possessions are not the most important thing.

However, you mustn't beat yourself up. You made the best decision you could with the information you had at the time.

Too many messages to read. Does she realise that many children are placed into a nursery at the age of a few months? She is not unique in not being cared for at home by her mother. And I agree with others - why is she not equally criticising her father?

Nanny was my primary carer, she was with me from the day I was born till she left when I was 8. She was everything, kind, warm, strict when needed, funny, helpful and always there. I loved her to bits. She stayed part of my life till about two years before she died, when I lost her to severe alzheimers. I still miss her hugely and I am nearly 60. My mother was quite cold, easily angered and bloody difficult generally.
All this to say, OP that you have done nothing wrong. You picked a kind nanny for your DD and it wasn't for long anyway. You then mothered your daughter in a way that sounds lovely to me. She's going through what Nanny would have called 'a phase' where she's just being damn difficult, as so many teens are. Stick with her, firm but fair and loving and she will come out the other end a normal, functional grown up!

Of course a secondary carer does not replace a primary one, but that does not mean that a toddler needs a primary carer 24/7. It does not mean that secondary carers cannot be a positive experience, and just because carers are paid, it does not mean that they are not a valuable part of a child 's "village".

For what it's worth, there is NO consistent scientific grade proof that shows that care only by parent being better for kids. What there is proof of is that parents having a choice about whether they use childcare is better for kids. Ie, parent who wants to use formal childcare is able to = better for kid. Parent who wants to stay home is able to = better for kid.

@Loopyloopy -
The problem with the sheer rationality of all of that is that it is not the language small children speak.

The daughter here has struggled with a mental illness (depression) and for some reason feels a disconnect with her mother. Brushing her feelings off and offering ex post facto rationalisations of decisions made and glowing recollections of the nannies who cared for her are not going to make her feel differently. Something in the relationship with the mother needs healing.

There is no amount of 'But studies tell us...' that will heal her.

I'm not denying the disconnect and depression. I'm just saying that the evidence suggests that her mother not going to work may not have prevented it.

Depression is very complex and blaming it all on something as mundane as a part time nanny is unreasonable.

Yes, but that's what depression will do to you, and it won't help to point out that studies show she wouldn't necessarily have suffered from having a nanny. It's important to listen and listen hard when a teen has depression, and not to become defensive or offer up justifications. You have to address the emotions, not the facts. "I hear you saying you felt miserable during those years, and I'm sorry" is better than presenting her with statistics. She is not going to change her mind and POOF goes the depression.

Even a child who doesn't have depression isn't going to be convinced by evidence to the effect that the arrangements the parents have made are not going to hurt her. Missing your mommy isn't pleasant, and a child has a perfect right to miss her mother even with the reincarnation of Mary Poppins taking care of her.

I was a SAHM until mine were at nursery in primary school and really value the role of primary caregivers in general… but still I wonder if this is more about her picking something she knows you feel sensitive about (presumably she knew you chose to give up work and change the situation).

I think you need to draw a line with it. As you say. The past is done. She gets to make her own choices with her own children (who will no doubt feel upset for totally different reasons!).

On a personal note. If the worst your DD can say about you is that she wished everything pre 2.5 yrs was like it was from then onwards then you have done very well indeed. Please stop feeling guilty about this.

I absolutely agree that OP needs to listen to her daughter, and acknowledge her feelings. I also agree that OP arguing with her daughter about evidence is not going to go down well.

I just think that when people are hurting, it's normal to want to look for a simple explanation ( in a complex situation ) and normal to want to blame someone. However, I think that OP's daughter blaming her mother's one (made in good faith) parenting decision for all of her current feelings is not going to be helpful - in fact, it's likely to be quite harmful.

I agree that it's very tricky, and needs to be handled sensitively.

It's one parenting decision, yes. It's a really significant parenting decision though, not in the same league as what brand of nappies to use.

The blame currently directed at the mother is very likely a stage on a trek toward the excavation of true feelings. For the OP to get her back up and switch to defensive mode now would be a huge mistake because there can't be progress while there's endless back and forth about whether the nannies were nice or otherwise.

It's especially important not to try to defend any individual decisions or present studies showing X or Y or Z about those decisions, or actually to focus on any decisions or specifics.

Instead, it's important to listen to everything that's being said while expressing concern and openness to hearing the DD.

Important to listen, yes, but there's a line between listening and endorsing a falsehood.

Thankyou @mathanxiety @Loopyloopy @Dancingwithhyenas all good thoughts. Definitely will bear that in mind and tread carefully.

Fingers crossed there will eventually be a time when the DD will regain a sense of perspective, but this won't happen if on top of whatever she is currently feeling there is a perception that mum has chosen this hill to die on.

Hey OP.

My kids have been looked after by nannies since they were 3 months old.

I'm a single parent so there is no other option. And even if there was I wouldn't give up my job to be a sahp. Just no. Having children doesn't mean I stop being my own person with my own life. If my kids complain about it later I will tell them as bluntly as necessary that someone had to pay the bills, and that I have a life separate to theirs. My job as a parent is to make sure they are safe, fed, clean and loved. Not to spend every minute of every single day with them.

Frankly my first guess was that you feel guilty about it, your daughter picked that up and thinks if you feel guilty there must be a reason, so leaving her with a nanny must have been bad. But it's really not.

Would it help your daughter to see that plenty of kids are in full-time childcare from very early on and virtually all of them are fine about it ?