Nannying = farming out your child - big mistake?

[WorkingMumD]

Hi, wanted some views. When I was in my 30s I was in London in a good job and so when I gave birth it seemed like the right thing to get a nanny to look after my daughter. Everyone did it! And it didn't seem weird. Now 17 years later, having talked to my daughter about it, I feel like it's the biggest mistake ever made.
She was traumatised by not having me around and couldn't tell me as she was so young and didn't want to upset her mummy. After 2.5 years of using a nanny, I felt it was wrong and so I did give up my job and we moved somewhere quieter and cheaper so I could be at home more with her, but the damage was done. She had a very very difficult teenage phase where we got on incredibly badly and now is able to say it tracks back to because she felt unwanted and unhappy when younger. She's now raised this a number of times, with me, doctors and mental health professionals. I'm quite devastated by it on a personal level as her dad and I worked so hard to try to give her a good, loving stable family home with everything she wanted - and she always seemed happy. I've told her I regret it, but I did change everything for her and the only way to put it right is by not doing it for her own children and by learning from it. I just wondered if anyone else had a similar experience? And/or what you would advise?

@MrsTerryPratchett that’s really interesting. What would a “memory of a memory” be? Would that be e.g. remembering now as a adult the memories I had as a 12 year old who remembered being 18 months old? So I wouldn’t remember it now if I hadn’t bothered to recall it at some point in the past?

As an ex Nursery School Teacher ,I think most children benefit from Nursery in the long run .Sure some will cry at first but will settle down .Most good CC settings will have plans in place for children who dont settle . However as your DD is so unhappy maybe some Counselling may help? She seems distressed and maybe this may help get her to face any problems as a 17 year old rather than this focus on the past .ATM we are facing the highest rate of inflation for 40 years ,so 2 incomes are needed unless a lottery winner or secret millionaire!

What would a “memory of a memory” be? Would that be e.g. remembering now as a adult the memories I had as a 12 year old who remembered being 18 months old?

Basically. I remember telling a story as a young child of waking up in my cot as an even younger child. I told it a lot and it became the memory of telling it IYSWIM. But it's not the actual memory. I've 'created' wallpaper that didn't exist, a blanket etc. none of which are accurate.

Farming out your child? Just what us professional nannies like to hear🙄Your daughter is an entitled little madam and you've enabled it!

All of you need to read the body keeps the score to learn about how different people can respond to extreme stress and the impact it can have on the rest of your life.

sounds like your daughter needs connection and safety with you. Look at how you can build a secure relationship together now.

all those posting scorning the daughter- I’m glad you’re not my mum! Tough love creates anxious children so good luck when your own kids are saying this to you 10 years down the line

A lot of kids also generate "memories" of things they've actually heard as family stories (which have often themselves been distorted in the telling). There are a lot of stories out there of people fact-checking treasured memories from their childhood and finding out that they can't possibly have happened as they remember. Memory isn't a video or a computer file - to some degree we construct and alter it every time we "remember" it.

I have a very few blurry "snapshot"-type memories from my early years, that's all. I really don't think it's possible to remember being 2 and not wanting to tell your mother you missed her because you didn't want to upset her.

V interesting Radio 4 ‘Life Scientific’ podcast about memory, with an academic who’d herself had a troubled childhood.

yeah all the school shootings, violence, extreme porn and hate rotting that country from the inside out begs to differ. Loudest wail that no one wants to hear

You feel guilty for using a nanny and she is using this to manipulate you. You probably talked about it with people over the years about it she knows you feel bad and could of "damaged her" and she is using it for whatever reason to make you feel bad. Unless you know the nanny was abusive, it's a load of rubbish

Honestly I'd just say to her "well, I look forward to seeing you set the example of good parenting if and when you have your own dc"

I've read it a few time plus seen van der Kolk in person a few times plus attended multiple seminars of his.

He talks about trauma, yes. Talks about how the body remembers things the brain doesn't (and Babette Rothschild said it before him h
and others since). But he's not talking about children who have a loving family and good childcare! There has been no talk of mistreatment by the OP. Children are not cared by their mothers - or fathers - the whole world over. Plus, this is normal throughout human history. Plus attachment bonds that are damaged can be healed so unless OP quit work to stay with her kids and then spent her time ignoring her DD, it's FAR more likely that this is normal teen button-pushing than a traumatised child!!

Now, there may be reason to explore why DD is pushing this particular button. Maybe not. But to suggest that this teen is actually traumatised by having a stable, caring nanny is to render virtually every working parent as causing trauma to their children. If it's traumatising to have at-home care by a sole provider, what level of trauma is caused in nursery then where carers change more regularly and it's out of home with kids getting less than 100% attention all the time? What about when children are cared for by a grandparent? The idea it's traumatising in the OPs circs is simply nonsense.

It's possible that DD wishes her mother had been there and feels let down that she wasn't. But that's not trauma. Just because something didn't happen the way a teen wanted it to in hindsight and they're upset - assuming that's the actual issue here - doesn't make them traumatised. And part of being a teen is feeling emotions strongly and learning how to deal with that.

Thank you - I'm reflecting on all your comments - even the mean ones about my daughter (!) - and your wisdom. For clarity her memories seem mostly from when she was four years old (not 2.5). She spent 8am-6pm 4 days a week with her nanny, but every other minute of the day, including holidays, we were with her, adored her and wanted to give her a good life. I'm not aware of either of her nannies being abusive at all - her last one was a bit brusque with the kids, but mostly they were professional and great. I think it's right to say she wishes I was there and feels let down. Thank you for all your views.

I think it's right to say she wishes I was there and feels let down.

She has no right to feel let down though. What has made her think that using paid childcare 4 days a week in order to work is “letting down” your child? Is it her social circle? Were all of her friend’s parents SAHMs? Is it the way you’ve described things because of your own misplaced guilt?

Hi @BobbinHood - yes - her friends mums are almost all SAHMs for whom a nanny is well beyond their means - and the impression I get that is that when she describes her early childhood to them they 'feel sorry for her' and think it sounds 'sad for her'. The guilt I feel is not about using a nanny - they are a godsend when you are working - it's if it hurt or damaged her in anyway, that makes me feel very bad. That I guess is the nub of it. Obviously as a mum you are trying to do your absolute best in the circumstances you find yourself in. Not easy! But I also acknowledge all the other points around maybe there's something else going on here that I should try to figure out. Thanks for your comments.

It's extremely odd and not actually remotely believable that there would be more than one other mum telling your dd how sad her very privileged childhood must have been. I just don't buy it. Most people, even the supremely judgemental ones who might think stuff like this, would have the decency not to voice such thoughts to a vulnerable teenager. I can believe that you might encounter one individual who might say stuff like this, but not more than one. It just wouldn't happen.

So, I conclude that there is some creative story-telling going on. Either your attention-seeking dd has spun a complete web of lies to these other parents about how very awful her childhood was, and they are responding to a version of events that you simply don't know about. Or she is fabricating what they have said to her in order to press your guilty buttons.

If you were working to provide those holidays and good times
Then explain that
You were not letting her down
But providing for her
List all holidays laptops etcetera and quality time spent with her
What about her father? Did he let her down too by not picking her up from school ?
There must be something else going on
Hiw is she not proud of you fir your career and profession? She is letting you down by not appreciating you.

Yeah I agree with @Mumwantingtogetitright. This isn't coming from other mothers. This is coming from social media, friends, and quite possibly her therapist (I say this as someone I grew up with has cut off her mum on the advise of her therapist who has basically led her to believe that anything that makes her unhappy is a result of being treated like shit by her mum - which is categorically untrue).

Don't get me wrong, I'd be upset if my child said this to me, but I'd be upset that they were being so selfish.

Being a nanny I find this utter garb!
A nanny is a little bit best friend,
A little bit teacher
And a little bit parent.
And we do a bloody good job!

I'd question your previous nanny's standards.
Alot has changed since 17 years ago !
Your daughter has other issues. I'd question that.
Just my opinion.....

@Nanny31 - her nanny was all those things. She was great fun. That's why I'm struggling to understand DD's comments. It's a weird one. @ChiefWiggumsBoy also agree this narrative could be coming partly from friends, who by and large come from pretty tough/hideous backgrounds. Maybe their way of getting a dig in at her more 'privileged' background...

When I read your post I thought wow and her issues are nothing to do with having a nanny for the first few years of her life

so glad most /all agree with me

she sounds spoilt and very privileged (sorry) and yes no one batters an eyelid for dads who work and travel but wow betide if a mum does

you have done nothing wrong @WorkingMumD and sorry your dd has made you feel this way

and whatever is bothering her isn’t that you worked for the first few years of her life that tbh she wouldn’t remember much about it

It's not appropriate to expect a child of four to be able to keep track of how much time was spent with parents vs. with the nanny. It's also not appropriate to expect a child of four to understand the concept of quality time vs. normal workweek time.

Children don't compute time like that. Actual minutes and hours are not relevant.

What matters is the feelings experienced as the hours ticked away.

I don't think it's fair to your DD to dismiss all of this. Many of the posters encouraging you to do so are harping on about her privilege, entitlement, etc. If it's not ok for your DD to absorb ideas about you working from her friends or from some SM fad, then it's not ok for you to form an opinion of her based on perceptions of being a spoiled princess, which come from disdain for the poor little rich girl.

The daughter has suffered from depression and clearly something is awry. Depression doesn't come from friends' comments or SM. Approaching this with the narrative at the back of your mind that she doesn't have enough control over her own mind and emotions to experience genuine personal feelings is disrespectful to her.

Being a nanny I find this utter garb!
A nanny is a little bit best friend,
A little bit teacher
And a little bit parent.

I've been a nanny too.

And one thing I know for sure about being a nanny is that I could have all of those lovely attributes, but I was never mommy, and that matters to a small child.

I think the problem is she's got some real arsehole, judgemental friends. Ironically if you haven't have moved out of London you probably wouldn't be facing this because she'd know fewer people with SAHM.

This sounds like very normal childcare. In many cultures, childcare is spread among extended family members. Care from a warm and caring nanny who has a genuine bond isn't going to be that much different to care by an aunt. This idea that all care has to come from mum is a product of the post war era. All care by mum is touted as "natural", but after early infancy, it's quite cultural.

I agree with some pp - I think that it's her friends who are the problem.

Of course not. But that does not mean that a toddler needs to spend every waking moment with their mother, and it does not mean that a child and nanny can't have a close secondary attachment.