Just been Lectured to by one of my mindees parents! Need to rant

[saltire]

Sorry, this is a bit of rant but i need to get it out of my system. I have just had a lecture from one of my mindees parents about me using "loud and intimidating" voice tones whne talking to his dd!!!!!!

Apparently one of his wifes friends overheard me shouting at the mindee last week, and told the parents. Then later the same day, the mindees Gran had heard me shouting at her. Apparently they don't raise their voice to her because it s
"threatening" "Unco-opertive" "aggressive" etc etc.
Well i did shout at the child, twice, for the following reason

She is a child who goes around in a dream everything takes for ever with her, the 6 minute walk to school takes 20 minutes on the days i have her. Well, on the way to school, which is when the granny heard, we had crossed the road, and X had stopped, in the middle of the road, and was singing and dancing going lalalalalala. I got over the other side, and shouted "X, get off the road", no response, shes still going lalalalala.I had to adandon my 2 ds, double buggy and toddler on roadside and go back into middle of raod to get her.

On the way home from school, again with 2 ds, double buggy and toddler, the rain came on suddenly. We were all standing round in the rain like idiots whilst she's dancing round the trees in the playground, an still going lalalalala. I shouted at her to come on, she did eventually, but i had to aske her three times and then go and grab her hand. I told her that we had all got wet standing around waiting for her.

At this rate i'm the one whos going lala. The dad wasn't pepared to listen to what i had to say and told me that they left thier daughter with me and expected me to treat her the same as i would treat my own. Well if my two were standing in the middle of the road i would shout at them too.
I am really angry, but now i have written it all down i can calm down a bit now, and take deep breaths. Sorry for ranting, i just get so fed up with childminding sometimes

Sorry can't resist

So if shouting to stop a child hurting themselves is a form of violence (which I believe it sometimes is - just that some violence or anger is not always unacceptable), then why is it not violent for two adults to hold a child's head/hands etc. when they want to brush their teeth, cut their nails?. You could argue that the second is worse as it involves physical restraint yet I don't believe any parent would see it that way.

The point I'm trying to make is that we all draw the line somewhere but we need to be aware that agression is a fact of life in any family.

Agression is the forcing of your will or wants/needs onto another person against their will and we do that to our kids all the time. It's called parenting.

I believe that what children need is to experience anger/agression (theirs and their parents') but in as safe an environment as possible.

i.e - 'I know mummy/daddy get angry sometimes but that is a normal (and I might add sometimes quite healthy) emotion in a difficult world' Also 'I'm not afraid of it because the anger is expressed approriately'

To try and pretend that anger and negative emotions do not exist to our children by never getiing angry or showing only positive emotions is really lying to them. How will they cope in the world when they come up against these emotions in a much less safe environment - i.e other children/adults who get angry etc.

In order to do that though you need not to be scared of anger yourself.

Please note I am not saying children should live in a world of anger and shouting - just that the occasional outburst by parents in my opinion does no more harm than many of the things we do to our kids and in some cases if a appropriate apology and talk follows can do some good.

Maybe you're right lazycow

I just can't see it like that at the moment.

I'm going to stop posting on this thread now - I was asked to explain my view and I've done that.

Lazycow: I want my child to be able to cope with violence when she is older but that doesn't mean I bring it into the home.

The difference between restraining a child to brush their teeth and shouting at them involves control - i.e. whether you have lost it.

Shouting at a child in anger when you have lost control is not great. Slapping a child when you have lost control is not great.

(I'm not commenting on the OPs situation, just commenting on your post)

And an environment with a parent shouting/slapping in anger i.e. when they have lost control is not a calm and safe environment

I don't tend to shout at my children, mainly because they shout back and give me a headache. However, I think Lazycow is making a good point. It's okey for a parent to sometimes "loose it" and get angry and shout. Providing you apologise or explain why afterwards. I think if a child never see their parents angry, arguing with eachother etc, they won't learn how to deal with their own anger and they will think an argument or someone shouts at them is the end of their world.
I would also have shouted if my child was standing in the middle of the road. What I read from this thread is that some childminder IMO look after too many children. It's normal for a child not to behave perfectly all of the time. 4 year-olds are unpredictable and CAN run into the road and they can often live in lala-land as described on this thread. That's why I for one would never look after more children than I could control safely. I often shudder when I see the amount of children the childminders in my area walk to and from school, but obviously it's up to the parents to be okey about this. I am saying this generally speaking and not directed at Saltire, because I think her issue is mainly unreasonable parents. This is also why I don't really grasp the argument about the 1-1 care you get in a childminder situation vs. nursery in those types of debates either. But see, I am making another thread again.......

I am not a childminder bth. Lucky escape for many children that I'm not!

So a parent must never lose control? I believe this is an unrealistic goal and just another way to beat ourselves up if we fail. Our children will eventually come to see us for who we are as they get older and if we try to hide it from them again we are lying.

If you are genuinely a person who never gets angry then that is fine. I however do get angry about many things. Does that mean I have to think of myself as a bad parent because I get angry about lots of things and occasionally lose my temper with my ds/dh. I don't believe this but then I would say that wouldn't I

apology accepted. You are entitled to your opinion, and although i was a bit upset at the implication you thought i offered a poor standard of care, you were still within your rights to oppose me raising my voice to my child. I sincerely hope that this works for you as your children get older. I'm not having a go, i really do hope it works
vickiyumyum, you're right, I did get quite annoyed and angry ( and even upset)about some of the critcism aimed at me, to the point where i was actually on the phone to all my CM friends last night, and a teacher friend, asking them if i was unprofessional, and losing control, and questioning my own ability as a childminder

I accept though that not every one agrees with me, everyone has different opinions on how to bring up children. For example, there is a mum in my sons school, whose child gets a pack of swets every day for his snack at school. It doesn't make her a bad person, its just not something i would do
I have said before on this thread, and am saying it again. I didn't scream like a banshee at the child, or in an out of control fashion. I raised my voice so that she would, hopefully , listen. There is a difference between screaming at a child and calling to them. Where i'm from, if you raise your voice even slightly, we call it shouting, even if its just a loud er than usual call.. Just wanted to clarify that. Again.

Just realised i have reffered to her as my child. mistake, i meant to put mindee

Have not had time to read all the tread, so appols if I am going over old ground. The parents of the child have totaly undermined your authority by telling her that they will take her away from you if you 'Threaten' her again. I think this puts you in an utterly imposibile situation. I agree with the poster who said she would never disagree with the CM in front of the child. If they have issues, they should raise them with you, without the child present.

He behaviour sounds as if they use no dicipline with her at all.

Put these two things together and I feel that you are bettwer without this child.

And FWIW, I hope that I never have to teach her in later life, or if I do, that her parents have insitlled some self control and respect into the child by the time she gets to secondary school..

all these working mums who NEVER shout or tell their children off. usually the children who end up out of control and lacking total respect for everyone....including the parents. wait until they are teenagers..........bet you shout then!

as a nanny if i child wa sin the orad i would def raise my voice, u did nothing wrong!

em xxx

Hi havent read the whole thread, but can see both sides of story. Im a bit of a shouter myself, so i know why u did it. But i do think the parents could be a bit more helpful ie explain to child when your with so and so youneed to hold hands or get a move on when she says. If this fails, you need to consider wether u have 2 many children as shouting isnt the answer and can lead to aggressive behaviour and shouting from the child. Believe me im paying the price with my 3 yr old. I now try to speak more camly rather than shouty Good luck

I think Saltire was shouting to get the child's attention though, which is different to just shouting because you are angry or loosing the plot a bit.
Don't see the relevance of working or not working in terms of shouting and telling your children off Fatcow.

Can I just raise this issue about too many children as it keeps popping up. A childminder doesnt just decide how many children she can take OFSTED actually deem these ratios to be safe. OFSTED come out and assess and inspect. My argument is that if parents are going to say that its too many then the prices per hour per child will need to increase otherwise it would not be worth anyones while financially to be a childminder. Much as most childminders love their jobs they cant do it for free or below the minimum wage!

Message withdrawn

I'm the same happymum.

I childmind only one child as I feel with me havibf 2 kids of my own then 3 is enough for me as I want to give them all attention. I see lots of childminders in my area with the max no. of kids all the time to make the most money possible.

I can';t see how they can give all the kids in their care much attention and to be honset from what I've seen a lot of them don't.

But we earn £2.75 per hour here and to make a living lots of these childminders have to have the max no. allowed.

As previously posted Childminders should be paid more than around £3 per hour then we wouldn't have to be looking after up to 6 kids at a time.

I've been thinking about this thread a lot since I posted earlier. If I'm 100% honest, Bugsy2, yes, actually, I DO expect CMs and nannies to have more tolerance. Am I alone in that? They're not just a substitute pair of hands, they're trained to deal with children, surely? It's their livelihood to cope with the stresses of childcare.
For many of us who leave our children with a CM or nanny (CM in my case), it is such a leap of faith. The thought that the person might not be kind to them in any way is one that is literally unbearable. Now I expect you are a kind, loving person Saltire, and would never be unkind to your charges, but hearing about the shouting tapped into that mother's deepest fears for a moment. She might have handled it badly and it probably hurt you not to be trusted, but the fact remains that she probably felt upset on that very deep level. It's like, 'I can think my child can be a pain because I love her, but not you.'
And I'm sorry to say this, but your irritated description of the girl sounds like a cross mummy on mumsnet (hey, like me sometimes) at the end of a rough day. I think it's a good thing that you're parting ways.

Annie, I don't know about the other childminders on here, I'm a trained nursery nurse with nanny and childminding experience, for about 10 years. So I'd say I was trained as you say.

But I'm sorry to be blunt but in my area of around 15+ childminders I don't know of any who are what I'd called trained in childcare. They are all mums fitting minding around their families and treating it purely as a business.

When I was registered by the care commission there was more emphasis put on whether you had the correct smoke alarm and safety gates and paperwork in place than what training you've had done and how you actually work with children on a day to day basis.

Sorry to sound harsh and maybe my area is a lot different to everyone elses but that's what i see round here.

But then again most parents I meet are more interested in your prices than your training so maybe it's horses for courses.

ssd, I think it depends on where you are? My CM was a trained nurse and midwife and also had an NNEB qualification. I always felt she was better qualified to look after my kids than I was!

And if mine were in the road I would feel it quite approriate for her to shout at them.

yes I'm sure it does depend on where you are.

Maybe I'm just picky but there are quite a few minders round here I wouldn't leave my dog with and I hate to see them with the kids they look after. Hope this is unusual.

Gosh. Saltire, in my view (for what it's worth), the parents are completely at fault for undermining you. People responsible for children need to present a united front, or the children will think they can get away with murder (as Miss Laalaaland thinks she can). I too would have shouted at a child to get out of the road - I think that's perfectly acceptable if the child might be in danger. I have also (so shoot me now) smacked my DD's hand away from a hot cooker with a fish slice to stop her burning herself. It was the quickest thing I could think of.

Also slightly irritated by some of the posts on this thread that imply that working parents cannot know their children as well as the person who looks after them all day...

Agreed Tanzie - especially when the 'all day' is actually an hour before school and a couple of hours after school! Outweighs all of the hours that the parents spend with them!

Ah well, why let the facts get in the way of a good grumble

At risk of having my OTHER head bitten off - I am the person who made the strongest comments about children being shouted at and the fact that I find it unacceptable. And I am not a working mother who knows nothing about the stresses of taking care of children (if such a creature exists, which I doubt), I am a SAHM with no local friends, a very unsupportive family and a phobia of babysitters. I haven't had a proper break in over three years. I do know how stressful and frustrating children can be. I just don't shout at my kids. I can't abide shouting. It doesn't mean that I never make mistakes with them or that I think I am a perfect mother.

I said I was going to leave this alone, but it's impossible.

Walk away from the PC, Mom