Leaving a young baby for 10+ hours a day

[kcj748]

I am about to have my first baby in November and plan to return to work full time four or five months later. I am incredibly nervous about leaving my baby at this age for such a long amount of time. I don't have the option of working part time so this will be five days a week for at least ten hours a day. My husband works even longer hours. A family member could possibly help out one day a week but we would mostly have to do childcare. My salary will only just cover a full time nanny but I love my job and really wouldn't want to have to let it go. Ideally we would be leaving our baby with a childminder but I have no idea at what age this is realistic and am terribly nervous about leaving my baby at someone else's house and with someone won't be able to give him exclusive attention.

Is it completely insane to think any of this will be possible? Does anyone have any advice about childminders/nurseries and other possible options?

Yep, same here, would be about 850 here

"By my rough reckoning you would need to be earning around £50k pa to make working financially viable given childcare costs of around £1500 per month."

A lot of women have barely anything left after childcare for pre-schoolers, but if you need that incremental (eg) £200, you need it. Also, you are effectively preserving your earning power for when they go to school and then the wages-childcare ratio becomes much more favourable.

Also, your tax calc is wrong- you'd be taking home around £2.7k a month on £50k (£2.7k x 12= 32K, then gross up, taking into account nil band).

EightiesChick you are spot on.

I posted early on the thread and i warned OP about illnesses/transport problems/need for back up childcare etc. It will not be 'a breeze' especially as her dh works even longer hours. I imagine it will be extremely tiring and she mentioned that her wages just about cover a nanny's wage so their health might suffer but not much financial gain really (although people will say that she gains by staying at work re progression, pension etc)

Still we dont know details, depends on job, commute, family support and even what sort of sleeper the baby will be.

Personally i would look into other options i.e. doing private agency work from home or something more flexible

£1500!! you really are living in cloud cuckoo cuckoo land! £500/month here for 4 full days!! Both my partner and I bank the max amount in childcare vouchers each month. I am on a relatively low pay, but it is still worth my while working even after childcare costs.

thermos one book does not an expert make

Another thought is to have a live-in nanny (not au-pair) so the mornings will be easier.

My CM is £3.85/hour for all ages. I think she might do a sibling discount. It is about £3.50-4/ hour round here in Somerset.

Laquitar thank you. I know thermos's posts and particularly strong views on this have soaked up most of the attention and thus brought people out very strongly in favour of the OP's plans, but I am still surprised that more people haven't questioned the need to work such long hours, or asked whether or not the OP or her husband couldn't cut their hours down a little, or adjust their working lives a little. I have already asked about the OP's employer's willingness to be flexible. Really we need some more details on this from the OP.

On the childcare costs front, I would think 800 would do it. Not aware of anywhere that would cost 1500.

Childcare is £1200 a month where I work. I am fortunate enough to work part time, but on the days I leave my son at nursery he is there 10 hours - I felt three x 10 was better than doing shorter hours on five days though (for my particular circumstances). I'd never judge working parents because it's damn hard whatever decision you make. I make just a few hundred pounds after childcare, but we urgently need that money to get by that month.

Also, in this economy, if my husband lost his job I could just pay the bills. If I wasn't working we'd be screwed. I don't want him to shoulder all the burden of paying the mortgage.

Our nanny costs us £1,750 in net salary per month, plus another £750 in PAYE and NIC (e'ers and e'ees). I would need to earn around £55k pa to cover that.

As it happens, I earn more than £55k. We use the difference to fund our mortgage (no help from parents, I came out of my first marriage in considerable debt), occasional holidays, treats for the boys, etc. All the things that make life a little bit more fun.

My boys love their nanny unconditionally, and I know she loves them. When she had to do jury duty recently, she came round after court most evenings just to see them.

DH and I also chose to reduce our working hours somewhat when we conceived our first DC, which for both of us meant changing jobs (I was abloe to transfer internally, DH found a new job). We are both always home for breakfast in the morning, and bath/bedtime of an evening.

I accept the point about going back to work to preserve your earning potential. But that doesn't explain why people need to go back full time. Why not go back part time and increase your hours as your child gets older?

I do have some very good friends who work full time and have done so since their children were around 6 months. We don't talk about the issue just like people often avoid talking about religion and politics. But I can see how her children have been affected by their mother working such long hours and whilst I don't doubt she loves both her children dearly, she just doesn't seem to know them as well as I know my children simply through spending so much time with them.

And I have at times been bored and grumpy but I think it's good for the children to see me as human with a wide range of emotions that we talk about freely. I explain to my children that we all have bad days sometimes and sometimes I feel grumpy. It's important for them to learn these things instead of being with a cheery childminder all day and not really having a chance to get to know their mother.

I also know the reality of children being in childcare from 8am to 6pm. Sometimes they have had a bad night and need to sleep in. But the parent wants to work so the poor baby gets woken up, taken to it's childminder tired and half asleep. I did loose a friend who works full time and told me how her son would often have to be woken up and dressed and taken still half asleep to day care. My heart used to break when she told me this and I did suggest she cut down her hours, but I never heard from her again. I'm not bothered about losing that 'friend', I'm more concerned about the welfare of her gorgeous little boy.

I feel sorry for the children who are simply not being given a chance to get to know their mothers. It can't be done in a weekend, there is no substitute for just being there together through the highs and lows, it bonds you together so strongly.

It's such a shame. I am sure when your children are older you will look back and regret how little you saw of them when they wereb tiny and you will never get that chance back.

I have suffered severe PND, and I have found being at home tedious and boring at times, but I do not regret it for one minute. Both my children are now at school and the baby/infant years are gone forever, and I am so glad I was there for every single minute, however hard it was at times.

Thermos I really don't understand how you are "financially independent" of you DH, who pays your mortgage/rent/bills buys food/clothes etc, whilst you doing your "hobbies"? And who looks after you DCs whilst you are doing said hobbies?
I honestly don't understand how you can make such harsh judgements of mums who have to return to work.
Or could it be jealousy that you have had to stay at home as you either have been unable to get back into you career after having a child, have never worked, have no intention of working, or have a medical reason as to why you can't work.
I wonder what you think of SAHDs who look after the children whilst the mum works?

thermos,its not your role to feel sorry for friend child.thats not a great basis for friendship that something so pivotal as her childcare,you strongly disapprove of. no wonder you both dont talk about it.i expect disapproval radiates form every pore

the easiest time to go back work and cement position is nursery age,if you have money nursery open 50wk year. nursery provision is the easy to arrange bit.

going back when baby at nursery you to keep up momentum, maintain position and wages. this input may then allow to further negotiate hours if wished

it all gets tricky at school,does gets harder at school with holidays, appts, plays etc. but still achiveable to both work with good planning

and parenting is emotional labour and the consistency of approach not wholly time intensive.many patents are available to their children but not emotionally available or good parents

not all sahp do finger painting and baking,with flour in hair.giggling all day

and not all nurseries are stark joyless environments with feral staff

Thermos, the fact is you are wrong about the harm done to children by having mothers who work. Your sentimental, self-righteous guff about your 'heart breaking for the babies' is arrant nonsense, backed up by no reliable science. So feel free to express your witless opinions by all means, but remember that everyone else is free to express theirs, which may well be that you are a whining, unimaginative idiot with little or no understanding of the world outside some very narrow circumstances of your own.

The thing is that according to child psychologists the following will all definitely fuck up your child

-nursery
-nannies

• helicopter mums

-WOHM

• state school
• private school

-boarding school

• co-sleeping

-not co-sleeping

• unconditional parenting
• not unconditional parenting

-formula feeding

• not doing BLW

Really quite amazed that there are so few fucked up kids.......or maybe the child psychologists/experts just talk crap. IM(H)O, kids are quite resilient- they are, after all, mini humans- the planet's most successful species. We have never been as child centred as we are today. I think we can relax a little.

Hurrah the Bride. Thank you for talking some sense.

^PigfartsPigfartsHereICome, thats a lovely post. I'm interested because i worked as a nanny, too.

can i ask, when you have children, would you be happy due to your experiences, to leave your kids in childcare and work a 10 hour day (i'm assuming thats what your mumboss works?)

I felt through working in nurseries, nannying and childminding it put me off leaving my kids in childcare as i found people like you who are genuinely interested in children were few and far between.Have you found this too or am i being too critical? would be interested in your reply.....ssdx^

ssd - Not an issue for me, as I'm not going to have children. I'll never need to make the choice, and I honestly can't hypothosise about it as I don't know how I would feel about my own child and care. I do know nursery wouldn't be an option for me until my child was 3 or so- I've yet to find one I would be happy leaving my own kids with, having worked in a few before moving onto nannying. I think nursery staff are poorly paid, have bad hours and often have to work in a team with gissipy people, and new students who haven't a clue what they are doing. Just my own experience based on working in 4 different nurseries, I'm sure there are better ones out there.

I know of plenty of childminders and nannies who enjoy childcare and see it as a career not just a job. On nanny forums I see so many nannies doing a degree in early years or similar just to improve their knowledge and practice, myself included. Because a degree won't always ensure a better job or pay, its experience that counts for more. I think its really difficult to do this work without loving it, its not like turning up to an office when you don't want to be there. You can't fake enjoying time with children or showing affection for them- at least not for long!

Having said all that, I have found nannies who do see it as just a way to earn money for a bit or do live-in just to have a roof over their head. Obviously not the best for the children but this is where references and experience help, and its vital for a parent to meet with a nanny as often as they need before handing over sole charge. Do trial days, interviews at different times of day eg bathtime to show how they cope with the stressfull times of day! Personalities need to match I think, and views on childcare. The best jobs I've had, including my current one, are ones where I have a good relationship with the parents. My most miserable job saw me loving a caring for a little boy and barely seeing the parents, communication was almost non existent and the boy suffered. Perhaps in that case it would have been better for the parents to stay at home with him but they both worked very, very long hours and actually I handed over to another nanny at the end of the day not a parent. I did everything I could to care for him properly but my own unhappiness with the situation meant I had to leave. IMHO the parents in that case worked because they wanted to, not because they needed to. Even though I'm all for childcare if nesesary, I have to say choosing a job with weeks of foreign travel, times when both parents are out of the country or leaving every day before child wakes and getting home after they go to bed is a poor choice unless there are no other options.

I don't do finger painting and baking with my DC's. Why can't I feel sorry for a child that I have got to know who is obviously not benefitting from going to childcare all day?

I am not at all jealous of parents who work. I had a good, well paid career before DC's. I made some investments whilst working and these are now paying off, meaning I have the equivalent wage as if I was working part time. Yes DH pays most of the bills, what's wrong with that? Our family is a team, DH and I both play our part and it works with nobody losing out, especially not the DC's.

And I am appalled at your smug attitudes towards your DC's, boasting about how well adjusted and happy they are. You come across as complacent, self satisfied and selfish, the perfect parents, in your own blinkered eyes.

The more I read your posts the more I feel sorry not only for your children but for you.

Of course I know my children as well as the nanny does!

She spends around 40 waking hours with them per week. (Her contract is from 8-6, but DS2 naps and DS1 goes to pre-school for 12 hours per week).

I spend all weekend with them, and 2 hours in the morning, and 2 hours each evening. And I cover all the night wakings. So even allowing for working FT, I know my boys better than anyone else.

We come across as complacent, self satisfied and selfish?

My God, look at yourself woman.

thermos it seems quite contradictory for you to claim that babies cannot express how they feel at being left with a stanger and then support a book explaining how babies feel a being left with a stranger....how on earth have they communicated that with the author....I suspect said book is simply one very blinkered view on childcare rather than fact in any way.

As the daughter of a childminder, I dispute the fact that they cannot offer love and comfort to babies and children - the right childminder will be so wonderful with your child that you will find them a godsend.

you dont finger paint?but go internet.oh you bad mother
neglect children to go online,but cant stretch to an activity.tsk tsk

Cinnabar, what are you doing with your children for those 2 hours in the morning and evening? And are you seriously trying to tell me that attending to the night wakings counts as spending time with your children?

Your nanny spends 40 hours with your children as opposed to your 20 hours per week. How can you possibly know your children as well as she does? Especially if they've been left with her since the age of 6 months?

"but they say to me that they are glad I'm around to collect from school etc and they don't have to go to after school club etc."

I thought you said it was OK to go back to work when DC are at school. Clearly that isn't without problems either.

My CM charged 2.50 ph. But with DH working as well we came out on top financially. If that hadn't been the case one of us would have stopped at home. When DD arrived the costs went up but DH was working shifts then so we didn't need as much time with the CM. It worked out.

eighties - a 50 hr week is not that unusual. It's just an 8 hr days with an hour commuting each end of it. My experience of it was that it was a doddle. I walked to the CM with DS1 in his buggy - settled him, left the buggy and walked on to work. Reverse at 5.30pm. He and I had a lovely time on the way to work and back again. It doesn't have to be hard and angst-ridden. In fact with only one baby it was simpicity itself and DS got all my attention for the rest of the week. he slept in my bed and was with my 24 hrs a day out of working hours. The time it got hard for me was when I had dd 2 years later. That was when I developed PND and started to fine the motherhood thing really hard - so maybe siblings are the problem, not working mothers

And if your DC's are so bonded and loved by their nannies/childminders, isn't it cruel to then take them away from those people with whom they have formed a strong bond, at the weekend?

DS has been in a creche (we live in Belgium) 4 days a week from 8.30am - 5pm since he was just under 5 monts old. Maternity leave here is only 18 weeks, so plenty of people do it. DS has loved it since the start....