Why do we have kids if we can't look after them ourselves?

[tothepoint88]

I offered a view on a couple of threads that is perhaps different from most of the mums on this website. I apologise for hijacking the two threads that I did and if either of the authors of the two threads were hurt or upset by my view then I unreservedly apologise as I should not have made those points on your threads. However, I do not apologise for my view and I do take exception to the responses that I got from people who were not the originators of the threads.
There seems to be some idea on here that one is not allowed to question the idea that having others look after your children while you go out to work is OK and perfect sense. It seems that we all have to abide by the belief that not looking after your kids and going out to work is OK. Well I'm sorry, there are people out here who might wish to challenge that view. OK, if you want to go out to work and leave the kids in childcare OK, but don't blindly believe that there aren't people out there who might think that it is not OK and perhaps the selfishness that seems to have crept into motherhood in the last 20/30 years has no effect. Not everybody believes that it is possible to balance a career and bringing up children. The idea that somebody else can do a better job than the mum or dad is frankly odd.

that blog woman me thinks is taking the piss surely.

MaMoTTaT - bad girl if your children are fine, why not. But I have spent one too many party with her crying DD on my lap and trying to answer her rather bewildered looking DS "where did my mummy go?".

She doesn;t hang around long enough to find out if they are actually fine with it.

Funnily enough it doesn;t drag me to MN to slag off all SAHM's, I assumed that it was just her, but hey why not lets judge everyone by a generic occupation status!

I know I'm terrible - you should see me practically skipping up the street after I drop DS3 at nursery these days as well

But no - I don't leave them upset, thankfully with my church organ playing that I've done since DS1 was 2yrs old they're all very used having other people look after them/whisk them off. I know I am extremely lucky there that my lads are so adept at random people looking after them

Feel free to judge away - I'm the spawn of the devil anyhow, as I'm on SAHM on benefits and a single one at that)!!!

Oh yawn, another WOHM vs SAHM debate.

You know, there are some people who shouldn't have children. The ones who feed them junk food 24/7, plonk them down in front of the TV/computer instead of playing with them, who never read to them, expect schools to fulfil the entire educational role. Who get drunk and/or do drugs in front of their children, who argue in front of their children. You get the idea.

Please save your smugness and ire for the people who genuinely are bad parents, not for perfectly good parents who happen to work. Thanks.

BTW, I think the Sew Liberated woman is absolutely awesome and wish I was even a tiny bit as amazing as her. Obviously she's supported by having plenty of dosh handy, judging by her house. But I'm really not comfortable with everyone laughing at her. Jealous much?

I just don't understand. What are single mothers, with no financial support from the father or other family, supposed to do? I'm in the fortunate position of earning a lot more than it costs me to pay for childcare. But I'm the only one who is bringing in the cash to pay for housing, food, day to day stuff. Should I quit work and go on benefits? This is a ridiculour debate. OP should fuck right off.

"So many women work to just make ends meet in jobs they don't enjoy. If they don't work they are made to feel useless wasters who are not contributing to society or family."

So many PEOPLE work to just make ends meet in jobs they don't enjoy. If they don't work they are made to feel useless wasters who are not contributing to society or family.

people have since the beginning of time worked 'just' to make ends meet in jobs they don't enjoy, that's how life is for most people.

My mum had 3 kids, she stayed at home until the youngest was in school, she was at home for 12 years.
She tried to get back into teaching but couldn't. She eventually started up a gardening business, which she could only do because of childcare help from my grandmother.
When my mother went back to work it was quite a major trauma in my life, if she'd always worked it wouldn't have been so bad.
My mother's life has always revolved entirely around our family, I'm not convinced that was very healthy for any of us.

You can't just stay at home and then walk back into a job once the kids are at school, even if you do that still requires childcare, unless everyone is meant to have a school hours, term time only job?

I work freelance, I try to fit it around my husbands days off and times the grandparents/aunt/godmother can help out so as to save money on childcare.

OurMutualFiend - we don't really exist......or so the Tories and many of soceity would like to believe.

We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Agreed MaMoTTaT. I don't feel guilty and I don't give a damn about smug posters like OP- although it does get under my skin. My DD is extremely happy and well-adjusted, she and I have a very close relationship, she loves her nanny, and unfortunately her father is a total dickwad who fucked off and gives us no money. So it's over to me, or to the state. I choose to take on responsibility for her. She will be fine. More than fine. No-one should judge. Many of us have no choice.

The sewliberated lady doesn't bother me at all, I think it is all rather sweet and aspirational in the same way River Cottage/Nigella etc are aspirational. What you have to remember when you start to feel incredulous/inadequate about people like her is that being like that is her job.

And actually, I take DS for woodland forage walks, make my own apple sauce and work 40 hours a week as a solicitor. If we're in the mood for a contest.

I work FT. Ex-DH stays at home with DS (2). Yes, I think it is best for DS to have a parent at home at his age. We'll probably use some childcare when he is older. I don't think it makes me particularly judgey for thinking that, on the whole, young parents benefit from having one parent at home where possible - at least, no more judgey than all the PFBism around on MN.

It gets to be a pretty bland world where we all have to trot out the 'your child, your choice' mantra - there would be no debate left on MN.

tothepoint88, I am a SAHM well was until last month as I now work the grandtotal of 6 1/2 hours a week outside. I am absolutely baffled that you would see woking mums as selfish.

Most working mums I know do so for financial reasons because set of wages is not enough, how is that selfish? they do it for their families!

The other ones, who have chosen to go back to work very soon because they love what they do definitely not love their children any less, they just found ways that allows them to have children and to also keep on doing something that keeps them sane and independant, how is that selfish?

"It's not a matter of wealth (childcare aint cheap!), it's about priorities."
Yes it is about priorities, you are right . I am going to go for the cliche of the century but 'a happy parent makes a happy child' really works in this situation. A friend of mine was so adament that she wanted to be a SAHM problem is after a while she got very very depressed, her DH was not cut out to be a SAHD she decides to go back to work and use childcare (friends and family helping arround) She is so much happier for it. The difference is stricking and her DCs are much happier too, not because they see less of mum but because when they see her she is happy, does not shout at them and actually has fun with them.

In an ideal situation I agree that Mum or Dad looking full time after the DCs is a great idea but real life is not necessarely ideal.

"So basically if a women wants children she has to marry someone rich, or chose not to work stay at home and claim benefits."

I desagree with op but I also desagre with this statment. I was able to be a SAHM for the last 11 years, DH definitely not rich and without getting benefits other than CB.
I do agree though that the only way to really not 'let down'our DCs would be to HE if we consider anyone outside Mum and Dad to be unfit to look after our children. I do not think I would be abletoo, not in the long run anyway.

meant to be "able to" not "abletoo"

I agree with those who couldn't do childcare 24/7. It would drive me mad. I love spending time with my DC, but not all the time. A break (ie working) helps me regain my mental balance.I work hard but it's sitting down, thinking and using a computer so completely different. Plus I can have a nice cup of tea in peace. I know it sounds daft but that means a lot to someone who never gets to hand the DC over to granny etc.

Also, yes women have always worked, mothers have always worked and they did this by leaving their DC with other members of their community (extended family or neighbours etc.) Children traditionally aren't just brought up by their parents but by their society and community. A good nursery or childminder is a modern version of this but basically nothing new.

Georgimama I want to be you when I grow up :)

Really? Be my guest. Can I be Kristen Stewart instead?

LOL

I want to be a family solicitor and have a family life too. Instead of working 70+ hours a week raising other peoples albeit gorgeous babies...

I'm not in family, I'm afraid. I have done a bit of family but now I do general litigation but mostly personal injury.

As far as the likes of the Daily Mail go I am basically scum.

Ignore the DM it's a pile of potential loo roll.

I'm all for parents doing what makes their family life work for them.

I did a placement years ago with a PI firm. It was incredible how many people thought they could sue someone for tripping over their own two feet. Then there were the cases that made me cry, mis managed labour and delivery and undiagnosed cancer etc

It must be generally interesting work though.

wow - its amazing what happens on a friday night on mn - i must not have a life and go out to the pub [hgrin]

'wipes brow after all that reading - esp finn and his room' [hhhm][hsad]

i am a nanny and i am part of the family - i am a 3rd parent and will always be there for my 3 charges when their parents arent - they can come to me for love/cuddles/kisses as well as the fun playing as well as firm but fair discipline - i love my 3 dc with a passion and would do anything for them

many woman work very hard at their career and want to continue with their success once they are a parent

some woman love their dc with a passion but are not cut out to be a sahm

others HAVE to go back to work to afford their mortgage/bills/food etc and scrape together to pay the nursery/cm/nanny fees

NO ONE should make any parent feel guilty (as often they feel guilty enough theirselves for leaving their dc)

There will always be parents who work whether they have to or ant to is another matter, and shouldnt make any difference - just as well or i would be out of a job lol

i wouldnt say i do a better job then a mum or dad, but i am there to help and advise them (if they want it) as this is my career (been a nanny for almost 20yrs)

many of the problem they may sometimes have such as child not sleeping/eating/being potty trained etc - i can help them with,as i have had experience in those areas before - and all of my familys welcome my views and advice because they know i have have had years of experience (just like you would go to a mechanic for a car and lawyer for legal advice)

in the end no one batters an eye lid when the man rushes back to work 2 mins after he becomes a dad, but many fell (including the op) that the woman should be tied to the kitchen sink

EVERY mum needs to do what is best for her,some love being a sahm,others hate it and go to work, some want to be a sahm but have to work to pay the bills - so they find the best childcare they they can

in the end NO ONE should judge another parent for their decisions they make!!

quite right blondes. I am really touched that by coldly and unemotionally putting my little ones into childcare, I have extended the number of adults they know who really care about them. Yes of course there are problems fitting FT jobs in with family life, but hey, we all seem pretty fine actually! Everyone has to find what works for them.

think some parents worry that their child will love their nanny/cm/nursery teacher more than they love them

this is so not true [hsad]

a child love never runs out - its like an elastic band and just stretches to allow more adults love in [hsmile]

LOL Blondes, that reminds me of what an old charge told me one day "are your boobies so big because your heart is so full of love?"

Awwwww she made me cry :)