Support thread for those of us who are requesting an ELCS after a previous traumatic delivery

[withorwithoutyou]

Hello everyone.

I have noticed a lot of threads regarding requesting ELCS lately, probably because I am in the process of trying to request one myself!

I just wondered if it might be useful for us to have a support thread where we can talk this all through as I know it can be a challenging process to go through.

Can I please also ask in the nicest possible way that anybody contributing to this thread can respect our desire for ELCS over VB? Thank you!

Anyway, I'll start - I have one DD, born 20 months ago by forceps after failed ventouse. She weighed 9 pounds 11 and I am concerned this one will be heavier! I am 30 weeks and have my first consultants appt tomorrow where I will be requesting an ELCS!

Great idea thanks!

I am currently 32 weeks pregnant with DC2 and elcs booked for 10 June. DC1 was 12 days late so I am hoping this wee one stays put until the planned op!

I also feel I've been popping up on loads of threads - I just feel a large part of my trauma from last time was not being taken seriously as a firsttimer and I would hate others to be dismissed lightly with their valid concerns.

DC1 needs attention! Back later....

Hi!

I had a traumatic birth with DD (3 years). I was in labour for four days, kept travelling to and from hospital as I was only a few cms dilated (noone took me very seriously for a long time). I had an emcs on the fifth day as my DD was distressed and they finally realised that I wasn't dilating as I should. I heamorraged badly (spelling) and was very scared and exhausted. I am currently 37 weeks pregnant and have my elcs booked for the 11th May (2 weeks to go)! Was very, very relieved when it was given the go ahead by the consultant.

At my 12 week scan, i discussed MOD and my previous labour and delivery with the Dr. I actually wanted a natural birth at this point but the Dr was so dimissive of my questions (I only wanted to know how long they would let me labour for until admitting me to hospital or taking me seriously (did not want to labour for four days again only to have an elcs). The Dr was so determined to convince me to have a natural labour and delivery and didn't actually answer any of my questions. In the end i (and my DH) didn't feel confident that anyone would listen to me (again) during labour.
The funny thing is, I am now terrified that something will go wrong or that I have copped out in some way although I know I would feel worse if I was having a natural delivery iyswim? Sorry - very rambling post!

Hi lovethesea, so glad you came to post.

Hello 30ish - four days labour sounds absolutely hellish. I am glad you've been able to get your ELCS agreed.

I can relate to what both of you are saying about being fobbed off as a first timer.

Strangely, I have more faith in the hospital performing an ELCS well than I do of them caring for me appropriately in labour.

I think that's largely due to the way my concerns were ignored first time round (as were my pleas for pain relief).

I felt very dehumanised by the birthing experience last time - one of the (delightful) memories that keeps coming back to me is the SHO who did my stitches giving a running commentary to her colleagues about which part of me she was stitching back together, and one of them having to point out to her that I was crying out in pain - she was so absorbed in the task at hand I think she had actually forgotten I was a person.

I'm feeling nervous about seeing the consultant as my concerns have been largely fobbed off by the community m/ws I've seen so far. One of them advised me to have a homebirth and I explained I was worried about the baby's size. She told me just to have it 2 weeks early before it got to big!!! How am I supposed to manage that?!!

Anyway, enough rambling from me!

I am still early days (am 27 weeks with DC2) but have pretty much decided that if BP goes up like last time I want an ELCS instead of induction and the horror of forceps! I sway between the certainty (well, as certain as anything to do with birth is!) of a CS and wanting to try it naturally if all is well and I go into labour spontaneously.
I have a consultant appointment next week so will raise it then - although all they have done so far is offer me counselling to get over my fear of induction and forceps/instrumental delivery.
WOWY - what a load of tosh from your comm m/w!

Hi biggest,

Good luck for your consultant appt next week. I think counselling could be a good thing, so it's nice that it's been offered.

I'm not sure I will ever get over my fear of instruments, I think I've got good reason to be scared of them! I'd be really interested to see if the counselling helped though - do you think you will take them up on it?

Such a good idea! Wish you had thought of this prior to last Wednesday, when I had DD2 by ELCS!

I know I technically am not eligible to join you, but figure I might be useful to have around as I have got the T-shirt so to speak, and am soo supportive of ELCS following birth trauma.

I had a traumatic birth (on back of pre-eclampsia and induction, incl PPH) with DD1 (nearly 4) and had counselling etc, but could not even think about or talk about her birth, or the impending birth of DD2 without crying.

I have faced considerable 'judgement' by folk who thought I was wimping out, and not doing what was best for baby, but knew for my own mental health I had no other option (hard to admit as I am a MH nurse).

I am so glad I did - Within hours I was healing mentally, and have not felt so well in years!

I am enjoying my baby this time, have healed physically so much quicker, was in hospital for 2 nights as opposed to 7 nights with DD1, and am even considering having a third!

Yes it was a painful operation and recovery, but give me physical pain any day over emotional pain!

I had pre-eclampsia again this time, and my baby was an unexpected 10lb 3oz (scan said 8lb) so I would have needed a section anyway.

Hello stinkypinky and welcome!!

Of course you are very welcome to join us, our first ELCS graduate!

Big congratulations on your new DD, I'm very glad to hear that your ELCS went so well for you.

I was wondering if you are breastfeeding this time around? I had a pretty tough time with b/fing last time although did manage to continue. One of my niggling concerns about having a section is breastfeeding initiation so just like to here how that has gone for others.

I had an appt with the consultant today (well, was with the registrar, but the consultant came in too).

It was pretty horrible, I cried loads which was just really embarassing. I asked for a section and they said they want me to see the sr m/w next week to go through my previous birth notes to see if they can reassure me about a VB.

They did basically say that a distressed person who doesn't want to give birth naturally turning up in labour is not exactly their ideal situation and that it was up to me how to give birth so I think if I am adamant that I want a section I should be able to get one.

Interesting about your scan stinkypinky - they mentioned growth scans for me at 36 weeks but yours just goes to show how inaccurate they are!

Hi ladies

I have my section booked for tomorrow ekkk!

I had forceps delivery after long labour back to back and saw consultant at 16 weeks who offered me an elcs! I didn't even ask! In fact at that stage I was Pershing the hypnobirth route and said to jim I wasn't keen on a section je told me to come back at 36 weeks with my final decision which was a few weeks ago. When I went back I saw the registrar who really tried to push me into a VB luckily my hubby was there and helped be firm and insisit that an elcs is what I wanted. Definately taken support with you I didn't tat 16 weeks but was lucky I didn't need it!

Good luck x

Wow, good luck butterscotch!!

Am quite you didn't even have to ask for an ELCS. I felt that the Dr's today were really not keen and would love to feel as though they were slightly more supportive!

Come back and let us know how it all goes, hope it goes really well for you x

Oooooh, all getting exciting and really daunting now! My elcs is planned for 6 weeks tomorrow - 10th June. Soooo close it's scary but not as scary as still having to fight my corner for it as some of you are.

Can't believe how reluctant some consultants seem to be in letting a woman decide between two sets of informed risks. I know an elcs is far from a simple option but rotational forceps, bad tears, horrific pain, uncaring staff, ignored wishes, incontinence, longterm health issues, vaginal pain, let alone fetal distress ..... it's not like we are blind to the down side of vaginal birth gone wrong!

Bad experiences often push you to try an alternative route. I thought a lot about what I would regret more - an elcs that goes badly or another vb that goes badly. I decided that another bad vb would be far harder to live with for me than a bad elcs. The latter would just show me that no matter how I get babies out it won't be easy and I am glad I only wanted two. But another bad vb would leave me thinking 'if only I'd had a section' all the time.

I can quite understand why some people want to try for a good vb after a bad one. For me it's that whole longterm health thing - the baby's and mine. IF I were the unusual case that had another OT baby in distress and oxygen deprived would DC2 be as lucky as DC1? Maybe there is something about my internal shape/pelvis that encourages them to turn OT at the end. The sunroof means it doesn't matter.

Hey lovethesea, 6 weeks is not long at all, I'm sure you'll be absolutely fine but totally relate to how daunting it all is.

It's interesting what you said about your pelvis - before I even got pregnant with DD I saw a chirorpractor who said my pelvis was twisted and he adjusted it throughout my pregnancy. I remember he adjusted it again just before my due date, but when I went to see him a week after DD's birth my pelvis was out again.

I had some very weird bladder pain in labour - basically contractions would peak in the usual way and then would peak again at the end in a really intense cystitis x 1000 type bladder pain (sorry if TMI!)

I've discussed this with a few people and they suggested the strange pain may well have been because my pelvis was out and suggested seeing a chiropractor!

I know from my notes that DD was right occiput transverse at 4cm, although I presume that at some point she turned as I only had neville barnes and not keillands forceps like you.

Anyway, I've never mentioned my dodgy pelvis to any medical staff as I imagine chiropractic talk will just be dismissed as quackery. But I am convinced that interally I am not best shaped to delivery in a straightforward way!

After traumatic 1st delivery.Wanted elcs for 2ns and ended up 'going natural' I then needed an emergency section.My 3rd was elective I didn't even have to have a tantrum!
Good luck to you all

Wowsers dooby, I bed you were seriously pissed off about your 2nd birth, I'm sorry for you.

Glad you got your elective 3rd time though.

Just bookmarking this as I want some tips on talking to drs about an elcs!

Had an em c/s with my first - I feel a bit of a fraud being on this thread as it wasn't really traumatic. No pain, staff were great, recovery took a while but was OK as long as I didn't overdo it. I'm sure I want an elec c/s this time but my mw keeps going on and on and ON about VBACs despite me making it clear I think an elcs is the better option.

I think a few years ago it would have been assumed I would have an elcs after an emergency one first time round but now there seems to be a big push (no pun intended!) for VBACs. I'm classed as high-risk (high blood pressure), am 38, have had a previous c/s - I really really feel an elcs is the best option for me. My mw is just so anti-cs I'm feeling guilty for wanting one!

I'm 29 wks now and I see an obstetrician at about 35 wks, I have no idea if he or she is going to be sympathetic or not about a cs so I want to get my arguments and reasons clear before I see him/her!

Hi whatshesaid and welcome.

Hopefully your obstetrician will be more suppportive of your ELCS than your m/w.

I try not to enter into birth discussions with midwives, I tend to see them as smiling assassins - all very lovely and outwardly supportive but every one I have met seems to have an agenda to make me give birth without drugs. I know I do not want to give birth without drugs, and I've already been tricked into doing it once before by a m/w, so I have zero trust in them, unfortunately!

Clearly I have issues on that front but unless one suddenly appears capable of respecting and following my wishes I won't ever trust them. We live in hope!

You must be due the week after me if you're 29 weeks. It's crap having to leave it so late to have all of this stuff sorted out isn't it.

Thanks withorwithoutyou. I'm due 15th July. I wish I could get it sorted out now, then I feel I could relax. I keep thinking "Surely they can't MAKE me have a VBAC if I really really don't want one." I just have no idea what the attitude of the ob is going to be.

It's not helped by the fact I know 2 people who have had VBACs who said they preferred having an emcs! Though I know that's not always the case - some people seem to have great experiences with VBACs.

I think I need to do a list before my appt so I remember everything I want to say and can show I've thought it all through. I need to get a bit more assertive with my mw too. She's otherwise very nice and I don't want to offend her!

I'm was more relaxed about it earlier in the pg but as it gets closer to the end I want to get it all sorted out!

A list is a good idea whatshesaid, just to get things all clear in your head and to have notes to refer to.

I had a list for my appt today which I intended to refer to but unfortunately I just dissolved into tears at the first question about my previous birth and it all got a bit chaotic about that.

They've stuck a big orange sticker on my notes now, I have no idea why - think it might be a warning "beware - this woman cries!"

Meant to say - I think it's doubtful they could force you to have a VBAC against your wishes.

Whatshesaid - You should definitely not be made to vbac without your full enthusiasm for it! There are risks to vbac over elcs and if you weren't confident it was a good idea you'd have so much more trouble adjusting to any trauma caused by it.

{Horror story] When I was due with DC1 someone due just before on an internet board had a vbac stillbirth - ok totally rare and so unlikely, but the baby was fine 5 mins before delivery and then blue when out. If you had been persusaded against your gut to go with a vbac and then this worst case scenario happened how are you meant to process it at all? Might have happened with a section, might not - but if you hadn't really felt free to make the choice I think the regret would be overwhelming.

Withorwithoutyou - very interesting that you have had a tilted pelvis diagnosed and had an OT malpresentation. I had a chiropractor tell me years ago that my pelvis was wonky. A couple of sessions and my awful period pain subsided for some time. Didn't have the money to keep it up so I presume my pelvis had tilted back again. My contractions were so intense from the start and there was constant pain, no breaks as the ante natal classes so stupidly promised me.

Hope tomorrow is great butterscotch!

Yes, I think you need to feel fairly confident and enthusiastic about a VBAC and my gut feeling is it's just not the right option for me.

It's the blimmin' mw saying things like "But a VBAC is safer for your baby" that is pissing me off. I know a cs carries risk but I have done a LOT of reading about this and I'm thinking - hmm, what if something goes wrong e.g.difficult forceps birth? Safer for my baby?

Also, everyone I know who has had an elcs has said it was a good experience. I don't know anyone who has regretted it.

It depends a lot on why you had an emcs last time. I know consultants who have said if the person just didn't dilate the time before properly - with no obvious reason (ie baby was in correct position, over due date etc) then there is a good chance it will happen again.

You have to weigh the specifics of YOUR body and experience. Have they said why you ended up with the cs last time? Your high BP would also be a factor surely?

I know vaginal birth is safer for babies than surgical removal, but I feel those odds change when you have already had problems with vaginal birth. If there is lasting damage from the previous birth or a similar reason still exists to cause problems again in the baby exiting or being in distress - then clearly it's not the same as someone heading in for a first birth.

I have also found a lot of focus on the birth experience (for mother and baby) and less comment at times on the longterm health issues for both mother and baby. I know I could well have a fine vb this time, but even if I avoid fetal distress and a rush to theatre for forceps again I might well end up with such a weakened pelvic floor/further bladder trauma that I spend the rest of my life dealing with catheters and physio appointments. I already have issues to deal with daily with my bladder.

It would impact me a lot as a parent if those worsened because of a vb rather than an elcs. I want to be the best parent I can to my current and cooking DC's - not depressed or in pain all the time from birth injury. I'm not seeing the elcs as preventing all that risk, but it does change it and in my case I feel lessens that risk for me.

Whatshesaid - I think you can only ever really go with your gut instinct with things like this. I can't imagine going into labour feeling that way I do about it and having a successful birth.

I really hope your consultant agrees to an ELCS, from what you've said I think it's highly likely.

I went for my GTT test for gestational diabetes today. My results were fine, which I'm really pleased about. I didn't think I did have GD but I think I could have done without the lecture yesterday about how I "should never have had a 9 pounds 11 baby" and how I should eat healthily.

I was a healthy weight when I got pregnant with DD and put on 2 stone. My DH is 6ft5 and his cousins were all around the 10 pound mark at birth. Not that I was asked about any of that stuff, the assumption was just that I ate too much and it was all my fault.

Getting a bit fed up of everything being all my fault but really trying not to get into a victim mentality about it all as I don't think that's helpful at all.

my god withorwithoutu i put on 3.5 st and dd was 6.5 lb so def not down to what u ate!! knobs.

i to feel as tho i will be booing my way thro consultants appointment, next mnth.
can u just point blank refuse to have a vb after trauma do u reckon, i no we go and put forward our plea if u like, but is it (or should it b)down to them,sounds astho u will be getting urs how do u feel now? did u leave feeling postive?

i feel astho its all i can think about. fingers crossed i can calm down after appointment, and get excited (silently shit myself about c-sect) and calm the hell down!!

Hello, hope no-one minds me joining this thread. I am 30 weeks and have been told I can have ELCS but have to return at 36 weeks to get a date for this so hoping they dont suddenly switch on me and change their mind!

Had traumatic 1st birth with DS (9lb 70z) who is now 8yrs old, inc prolonged 2nd stage, forceps, PPH, episotomy, split stitches, abcess on split, return to hospital for treatment and 2.5 years of pain and issues, unable to have sex etc. This all led to DH having a vasectomy because he was so freaked out by what happened (against my wishes) he finally got it reversed and we (eventually) found out he has 100% anti-sperm antibodies which mean we could never conceieve naturally ever. So after fertility treatment and then IVF with ICSI we have finally managed to get PG (so grateful!) and hopefully all being well I will get an ELCS.

phew, long winded! Just wanted to join this thread for support as I have encountered some bewildering attitudes to my decision to have ELCS and hoping it doesnt become a place where people come to try and persuade me to have VB as seems to happen when I discuss it normally!

And well done stinkypinky

all those people will be told to get lost, we r all here for positive advice and help eachother not to talk each other out of it, wow u have had a busy time eh!! good luck to u, they cant back out on u if they have already agreed can they??

good luck to u xx