Support thread for those of us who are requesting an ELCS after a previous traumatic delivery

[withorwithoutyou]

Hello everyone.

I have noticed a lot of threads regarding requesting ELCS lately, probably because I am in the process of trying to request one myself!

I just wondered if it might be useful for us to have a support thread where we can talk this all through as I know it can be a challenging process to go through.

Can I please also ask in the nicest possible way that anybody contributing to this thread can respect our desire for ELCS over VB? Thank you!

Anyway, I'll start - I have one DD, born 20 months ago by forceps after failed ventouse. She weighed 9 pounds 11 and I am concerned this one will be heavier! I am 30 weeks and have my first consultants appt tomorrow where I will be requesting an ELCS!

Hi sophieandbelly I'm hoping not nut I read a thread on here recently where a lady had had it agreed by a consultant BEFORE she even got PG to have ELCS and when she returned at 36 weeks they said their policy had changed and she could not have ELCS!

Not sure who it was now, was a few weeks ago so dont know if she ever got it resolved or was forced to try VB, but have ben panicking ever since.

Sorry I went awol! I will let you know what consultant says next week - will find out more about counselling.

Hey Sophie,

I think it would be really difficult for them to put you in a position where they are basically going to force you into having a VB against your will. I think that their first line of defence is just to fob people off, but if you are persistent I think you'll get what you want.

It's not in their interests to make you do it against your will. Also, remember, you have really good reasons for requesting an ELCS and you have a right to see another consultant if the first one isn't sympathetic.

Hopefully you will get someone who is sympathetic from the start and you won't end up being reduced to tears! But if it comes to that there are a lot of people on this thread who can offer really good, practical advice as you go through the process.

Hello mookle - wow what a story! Huge congratulations on your pregnancy, that is amazing. I'm glad you've been offered a section already, I've heard it's quite common for them to attempt to talk you out of it at 36 weeks, but I don't think they can actually withdraw the offer. As long as you stand your ground I don't think you'll have a problem.

Wow, just seen your last post mookle, am at that, don't remember the thread in question but would be interested to hear the outcome.

Thank you withorwithoutyou - its been a long journey to get here! I didnt know it was common practice to try and talk you out of it at 36 weeks so I will bear that in mind and have my arguments inplace before I attend that appointment then!

will keep my fingers crossed for you sophieandbelly and withorwithoutyou that you get given your ELCS's without too much hassle

yes it shocked me too! I will try and find the thread tomorrow, off to bed now. Goodnight everyone nice to "meet" you all!

Hi everyone, hope you are all ok. I just had a quick question...have any of you ever asked to see your maternity notes/records from your previous traumatic birth?

I've been thinking a lot about it lately as I get nearer to the big day. I almost feel like I was in a car accident or some other big trauma and I cant get past it and maybe reading what happened in black and white might help??

If anybody has done this, how did you find it? Who did you have to speak to to get access and did you get to take a copy home or did you have to sit in a room at the hospital...how does it work?

I think you can do both - request to go through the notes with a midwife supervisor or afterthoughts type service and also to have a copy of your notes (there is usually a charge for the latter). I asked my midwife at booking in about going though so probably through the hospital somehow?

I went briefly through mine with my new consultant as I had so many questions still from DD's birth - it wasn't as detailed as I wanted as time was limited but she referred me to maternal pyschology. I am seeing them every few weeks at the moment to get support as I approach my next birth.

At my last ante natal clinic a week ago I was given my notes at the front desk to carry through for the clinic. I diverted and hid in the toilets and read them again (had turned up early with this cunning plan in mind, sad isn't it?!). Found some new information in them and a letter from my consulatant to my GP after DD's birth saying I should be supported and my mood watched carefully. I wasn't and it wasn't so that made me frustrated.

The cold, hard facts really help me get a grip on what happened and that I didn't imagine some things..... like a second stage of over 4 hours.....

Hey there. I've been popping up on a lot of these threads too. I'm 38 weeks pregnant and had a pretty awful first labour. I was in very painful back labour for 4 days and nights before finally being admitted to hospital (they wouldn't admit me because the contractions weren't regular enough). I then spent half of the 5th day in the midwife unit (alone, apart from my husband and mother) before it was discovered that I'd failed to progress at all and there was meconium in my waters. I was then transferred to the consultant unit where I was put on the hormone drip and epidural. The next few hours were bliss as I could finally sleep! I was told to start pushing later that night, and all was going OK until we hit the 2 hour mark and I was told that they'd have to use forceps. All hell broke loose as the obstetrician's manual examination somehow triggered a sudden failure of the epidural and utter agony (not helped by the obstetrician's hand being inside me alongside the baby's head)! Suddenly I was being rushed into theatre to be prepped for c-section. The anaesthetist was a complete arse and at one point the surgical team were arguing with him over my head that the anaesthetic would be insufficient for a c-section (he even started flicking the icy cold water they use to test you at my mother). Anyway, that was all eventually resolved, they gave it one last go with the forceps, and the baby eventually came out. I didn't find out until the next morning that I'd suffered a 3rd degree tear until an old dragon of a matron barked it at me. I recovered from the tear pretty well, but the mental trauma of the whole thing was much more difficult. I've always found it difficult to come to terms with my lovely mum and hubbie seeing me like that, and yelling at the theatre team to just take my baby away when it was born.

Anyway, I could only contemplate pregnancy again after being assured that I'd be able to have a c-section next time. I got to 35 weeks (having seen one consultant at 20 weeks who'd told me that I could decide and book a section at 35 weeks), then saw a different consultant who wasn't at all keen and said that I may not be able to opt for the section after all as they were shortly to remove patient choice at the trust. However, the baby was transverse and I needed a further scan at 38 weeks to assess that.

Sooo...I had the scan yesterday. Although I know the baby has been transverse in the last few days, of course it decided to head in a vaguely downwards direction for the scan. I braced myself to be packed off for VB, then saw yet ANOTHER consultant who while not being particularly supportive said that I could opt for a section if I wanted. Me and OH practically bit his arm off and it is now booked for 11th May. This is only 2 days before my due date though, so there's a decent chance things will kick off before then. But as it's now acknowledged that the baby is an unstable lie, they will admit me immediately if I go into labour and will do the c-section if that's what I want.

Bit of an epic, but I've actually tried to be brief and have still missed loads out! Am so relieved to finally have the section booked, and am finally able to look forward to the arrival of the baby (with 10 days to go)!

Regarding debriefing, I've never asked for my notes as such, but we did put in an official complaint about the anaesthetist's behaviour and were quite gratified to receive a written apology and a very long and detailed description of what happened (apparently they interviewed all of the surgical team who were there that day about it), and we were informed that the anaesthetist was no longer allowed to practice alone without further training. It did help me to appreciate how much I'd actually tolerated (as opposed to previously focusing on the failures), and it was reassuring and surprising to hear them admit fault and explain what had happened. I wouldn't say it made me feel loads better, and it was read once then filed away never to be read again, but I think I appreciated the apology and the acknowledgement that others were in the wrong that day more than anything.

Hi, I feel a bit silly posing this as am currently ttc dc2 but ds is nearly 3 and the reason i've put off trying to get pregnant again is the horrible experience i had having ds.

I had g&a until 5cms then requested an epidural which i was assured was coming but never did. needed ventouse to get ds out, couldn't push as was so painful. i actually kept putting my legs together as i just couldn't cope with the pain after 2 hours pushing got ds out (my legs in stirrups)

then the fun began. Placenta wouldn't come out so whilst i'm cooing over ds they decide to give me the drug that causes contractions without telling me (already had canula in hand ready for non existant epidural) I then find myself in absolute agony again for an hour literally sreaming with pain until they could finally get me into surgery to get the placenta out and stitch my 2nd degree tear. had 1300cl pph so found i could hardly stand for about 2 weeks after the birth.

i really can't go through this again, do you think i have a case for an elcs or will they think i'm a wuss?

Again sorry for hijack as not actually pregnant yet but this is causing me some anxiety.

Hello all.

Mookle - you can ask for a copy of your notes. You have to pay if it's not within something like a month or two of your birth. I did this, going through PALS and I think it cost around £20.

I haven't done a birth reflections thing as I basically didn't feel ready. I was also pretty upset as there are a lot of omissions in my notes, as well as some downright lies.

I was pretty upset about that and couldn't face going through them with someone who would just read them out to me and tell me that apparently I was only in very mild pain during the 2nd stage (when in actual fact I was crying and pleading with them to top up the epidural that they had decided to take away from me hours before).

Anyway, I agreed to go through them next week with the sr midwife as the consultant thinks that I shouldn't make a decision about a c-section without first properly understanding what went wrong last time.

I agree with him on that actually, and I'm hoping that as I'm at a different hospital to last time the m/w is more likely to believe my side of the story (i.e. the truth!) rather than my notes.

Sorry, that was long!! I just wanted you to be warned that your notes may not accurately reflect your experience.

Ealey - hello and welcome, and I'm very sorry to hear your experience. at the anaesthetist! Brilliant that your c-section is so soon, I hope you enjoy these last days of your pregnancy and have a far better birth experience this time round.

Nanbullen - hello and welcome also. There is absolutely nothing silly about being on the thread whilst ttc. Lots of people on here will be able to give you good advice and reassure you about getting a section. It sounds as though you have very good reasons for having one, and I'm very sorry you had such a horrible time last time.

Can I join you? Currently 20wks with DC2. DS was delivered by EMCS 16 months ago after 4 days of contractions and 24 hours of active (I hate this - the whole bloody thing was very much 'active' as far as I was concerned) labour. He was back to back, bizarrely lassoed by his cord and forehead presenting.

When they eventually realised he wasn't coming, they opted for EMCS. He had to be pushed up and out and was born with a very large haemotoma on his forehead, which is still there.

I can't really think abut his birth now - I feel a lot of guilt about his haemotoma. I also felt very out of control throughout and had a lot of internals (and the pricking of his head to check for signs of distress), which affected me psychologically.

I initially wanted to go down the VBAC route, but was having panic attacks at the thought, so think an ELCS would be better for me. My consultant seems very supportive and I don't think she would 'refuse' me one. I think I'm tussling more with my emotions about it - am I doing the right thing? Am I wicked to have the baby delivered before they are necessarily ready to be?

On that note, has anyone successfully delayed an ELCS? I was under the impression that the norm is to deliver at 38wks.

Thanks lovethesea - second stage of over 4 hrs I thought mine was bad at 3.5 hrs....

ealy - I think yours is the post I had been reading about thats now got me panicking that they will withdraw my ELCS...I really hope not but forewarned is forearmed I think.

Your experience sounds absolutely barbaric and almost like a scene from a horror movie, no wonder you have been traumatised by it. I am so so sorry that you had such an experience, its just unbelievable. I bet you are so releived to have that section booked - but bloody hell, I cant believe they have messed you about so much it makes me really why are mothers treated like this? I just dont understand it. I will keep everything crossed for no early labour for you.

Nanbullen - I cant see any reason why you would be refused, again it sounds like a horrendous experience. Its so hard to tell as it seems to depend on which hospital you are at and even then which consultant you see. All you can do is go in armed with the facts and stick to your guns. Best of luck with it

withorwithoutyou - I have a feeling that my notes will not reflect waht really went on, I almost want to read them to confirm my suspicion about it.

redllamayellowllama - my consultant told me their policy now is to ONLY deliver byELCS at 39 weeks and no sooner.

thanks withorwithoutyou

Hi there redllama, I'm really sorry to hear about your experience.

My DD also had a haematoma which thankfully disappeared after about 2 months. I can remember how guilty it made me feel so I totally sympathise with how awful it must be for you to know it is still there .

I'm really glad that your consultant is supportive and you shouldn't have a fight on your hands if you do choose an ELCS.

I think it's very common to have feelings of guilt about wanting an ELCS. Something I think that for me, is largely fuelled by other people's attitudes - weird competitive birthers mainly, plus the media banging on about women who are too posh to push.

At the end of the day, you have to do what is right for you in your circumstances. I think I've made my peace with that now - mainly because I still feel terribly, horribly guilty about DD's birth and the trauma she suffered as a result. It's therefore entirely possible to feel guilty even though I was attempting to do it the 'right' way!

Mookle - yes why are Mothers treated like this? Is it because the medical profession know that women, particularly first time Mothers, will go along with what they are told and are so vulnerable they can be easily coerced?
If some of the stories here are the NHS Maternity services at their best then heaven help when financial cuts are implemented, which seem inevitable, after the election regardless of which party gain power.

Ah shit, don't say that about the election gailforce. I can't get my c-s agreed for definite for another 4 weeks!

another 6 weeks for me I'm going to kick up such a stink if anyone tries to take it off me..

Is anyone about today? Feeling very down, two RL friends who were pregnant have just lost babies. One an ealryish miscarriage and one lost at 20 week scan. Feeling so upset for them and scared for myself even though its not terribly logical, but you never know, and I'm just so gutted for them sorry for rambling.

Hi Mookle,

I'm here.

I'm so sorry to hear about your friends, that's absolutely awful.

Are you ok?

Thanks for the info Mookle. Really sorry to hear about your friends - a friend due on the same day as me this time round miscarried at 8 weeks and it's so hard. The combination of feeling devastated for them, guilty that your pregnancy is going well and seeds of doubt being planted that something might go wrong is a bad one. I felt really awkward offering support to my friend, but knew that it was really important that I did. She's in the early stages of being pregnant again and I've got everything crossed for her.

withorwithoutyou - thank you. I think you're right about the guilt etc. A fairly good (and open-minded) friend was shocked to hear about me wanting an ELCS and talked to me at length about the hormones I'd be missing out on and how wonderful her home birth was. Which really served to help me...

You're absolutely right - I have to do what's best for me, both psychologically and physiologically. It's just so hard to negotiate to it all!

redllamayellowllama and withorwithout you, sorry to bring this off topic thing to the thread was reall upset about it all this morning. One friend who is in her 40's and has been trying for 10yrs and was in process of adopting fell pregnant naturally and started bleeding yesterday nothing seen on scan not too sure how far along she was as her periods irregular, and like you say, want so much to support her but know even though she wont think anything bad towards me that it will hurt her to look at me pregnant, I know I've been there too. Other friend same age as me had IVF to concieve her first daughter and fell pregnant naturally, miracle, had 12 week scan and evrything ok, then 20 week scan and baby died and IM just so, so gutted for both of them and scared incase it comes in threes and something happens to my baby I know I'm being a bit silly but I just feel really all ove r the place today and have 2 family parties to go to one in the day and one at night and I cant be arsed with either! lol rant over.

Somone give me a slap

Mookle - sorry it's taken me so long to reply, weekends are so hectic.

How absolutely terrible for both of your friends. I have no personal experience of pregnancy loss so can only imagine how terrible it must be, especially combined with fertility issues.

I think the mixture of emotions you're feeling are totally normal - it's totally normal to feel vulnerable when something like this happens when you are pregnant, particularly if you've been through a traumatic birth experience where you feared for you baby (and I think all of us have been there). I hope your parties go ok and you manage to get some rest and reassurance today.

Redllama - I would have been really upset at your friends home birth lecture too. It's taken me a long, long time to realise that people don't mean to be as insensitive as they are.

I was reading about post traumatic stress on the birth trauma website, and it said that feelings of isolation, inadequacy and loneliness when you first have a traumatic birth are often exacerbated when you then talk to other mothers, hoping to find some kind of mutual understanding but who weren't traumatised by the birthing experience.

That really resonated with me - I can remember our first NCT meet up after the baby's were born listening to four women talking about how their babies just popped out after a few hours with a bit of gas and air. I think it definitely made me feel worse than ever.