Support thread for those of us who are requesting an ELCS after a previous traumatic delivery

[withorwithoutyou]

Hello everyone.

I have noticed a lot of threads regarding requesting ELCS lately, probably because I am in the process of trying to request one myself!

I just wondered if it might be useful for us to have a support thread where we can talk this all through as I know it can be a challenging process to go through.

Can I please also ask in the nicest possible way that anybody contributing to this thread can respect our desire for ELCS over VB? Thank you!

Anyway, I'll start - I have one DD, born 20 months ago by forceps after failed ventouse. She weighed 9 pounds 11 and I am concerned this one will be heavier! I am 30 weeks and have my first consultants appt tomorrow where I will be requesting an ELCS!

NanBullen, there was an article in the Times back a few months about all these female obstetricians who refused women caesareans but when they had their own children they were popping off to private hospitals for the 'slice'. A case of do as I say not do as I do! NICE guidelines say you are entitled to a second opinion - I would go for that. Really lay it on the line that it is making you ill. Did you know there are a couple of campaigners trying to get all this changed? One has a website called csections.org and the other website is electivecaesarean.com Apparently their are some sneaky things you can say that can make it tricky for them to refuse a caesaran.

Thanks BTABODS I'll take a look at those websites now, hopefully get some tips.

Just a thought, it says I have the right to a second opinion. Does the fact that i'm being referred to the head midwife count as the second opinion or does this mean i can also request to see another consultant?

oooh, dh just reminded me that i've actually seen hannah before! She did the heart scans we've had to have and she was lovely!

Hi Nanbullen - second opinion means second consultant opinion so you can see another cons.

If you don't like that cons answer you can transfer hospitals to see another cons, then another cons at that hospital if you want to.

I had to see the head m/w before my ELCS - she sent a very supportive letter to my consultant recommending I have an ELCS so they may well just be covering backs.

Good luck.

thanks flying zebra. I think i'll talk to the head midwife and then if I get no joy i'll ask to see another consultant.

I looked up the head mw on the rosie website and apparently she sees a significant part of her job as reducing the number of caesareans at addenbrookes. brilliant

Nanbullen, good luck, but if you need to, then go ballistic on her (calmly!).

Tell her that you do not consent to a vaginal birth, and that, should the hospital force you into one you will not hesitate to sue them.

Thinking of you.

Nanbullen i had similar to you and was turned down by an unsympathetic female consultant. She said I was entitled to a second opinion but should see the head midwife. Eventually I did see the head midwife and part of her job was to go through previous birth experiences. After I saw her I got an appointment to see a differnet consultant and he was much more sympathetic and agreed to my ELCS (DD2 5 weeks today). Apparently it went in my favour that I had been persistent and seen the head midwife first as it helped show I was serious and had thought the options through etc.
Good luck and stick with fighting for what you want. I had to battle hard but it was well worth it

I was in your position over a year ago and thankfully had an ELCS and it was the best decision by far. I too had a traumatic 4 day labour, with DD1. I had a terrible experience that left me so emotionally and physically scared I vowed I would never have any more children. 10 year later, DH and I decided that we really did want another baby and I fell pregnant almost instantly, which left me both excited and scared sh*itless!

3 months into my pregnancy I begin suffering from PGP so was referred to a physio who confirmed my pelvis was twisted. I had on-going treatment throughout my pregnancy and it was suggested an ELCS could be an option as I may find a VB difficult. I was referred to a consultant who decided that there was no reason for me not to have a natural VB and refused to sanction a CS.

I was distraught as I had convinced myself an ELCS was what I wanted. Before leaving the clinic in tears one of the mid-wives approached me. I explained what the consultant had said and her advice was to get a second opinion with one of the more ?flexible? consultants.

I asked to see my medical notes from the birth of DD1 as looking back I believe the reason I had such a hard time was because of the lack of care. Being much younger, I hadn?t really questioned what was happening to me or pushed for an epidural. I went 3 days without pain killers or sleep and was left on the labour ward strapped to a monitor.

I won?t waffle on anymore, except to say, each hospital has a different policy on requesting an ELCS, some give them easier than others. You can request one on psychological grounds though again it is the Consultant who makes the final decision. You may have to be persistent, which I know a lot of people on here will disagree with.

Luckily the second consultant I met was more in favour of me having an ELCS especially as towards the end I began to develop pre-eclampsia. I found the experience calm, quick and a million times easier than the first time round. Breast feeding took a little longer to establish and of course there is the pain afterwards but it was well worth it!

Nanbullen- Go to another hospital, then. Really, it's not a big problem.

My advice is to cry. Lots. See the hospital psychiatrist, and cry buckets. Tell her all you feel about previous birth and why you can't go through that again.

It worked for me . DS was born by elCS at 38 weeks, in a calm, lovely birth. I wouldn't change it for the world.

Thanks for all of your replies. I've calmed down a lot now.

I think i'll see the midwife, see what she has to say then ask to see another consultant.

I just wish the baby was here now and i wouldn't have to worry anymore!

Anyone read the article in the Guardian about the huge rise in women requesting caesareans after traumatic birth. What gets me is the professionals all saying it is all because women are not prepared to put up with the pain. GRRRRRRRRR....what other field of medicine do they leave people mental wrecks as a result of their experiences and then tell them they should have been better prepared for the pain. DOUBLE GRRRR.. Anyone noticed this is one of the biggest threads. I wonder why?

Hello all, i'm new to mumsnet but have read through this thread and it's helped alot!

DD1- 9hr labour, no pain relief, 2nd degree tear, in and out that day.

DD2- 1hr labour, unexpectedly born at home on the kitchen floor, cord round her neck, delivered by my mum (paramedics didn't arive on time), 3rd degree tear. Stiched in theatre, DD2 had jaundice, stayed in hospital for one night, PND and just a really bad experience that left me shaking in shock.

Would like another baby (DD2 is 4yrs) but due to the speed of labour, PND, shock, 3rd degree tear and the SPD throughout the pregnancy and the soreness of the stiches (due to sex and when AF is due) i'm scared that i'll have a repeat of DD2's birth.

Would I be allowed a Csec?

Sorry it was short and to the point, find it really hard going it over it so just wanted to keep it short.

If you have ever had anal incontinence, it may be quite difficult for them to refuse you - not suggesting anything of course!!!!

Have a look at Patient UK - good site with balanced info on this www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Episiotomy-and-Tears.htm

Good luck:)

Hi all,
Just wanted to say reiterate how much this thread has helped me throughout my entire pregnancy and continued push for elective section.
I have my section booked for this Monday so finally the day is here!
NanBullen stick to your guns - ask your consultant to refer you for a psychiatric evaluation. This is what I did and saw a Dr Michael T Isaac ( unfortunately he is in London). Anyway he assessed me and as has nothing to do with getting number of sections reduced was to rally objective. His write up advised that from a psychiatric point of view an elective section was recommended. Once my consultant had this in writing she had to comply - prior to this she had basically been totally unsympathetic and said that an elc was out of the question and if that's what I was pushing for then I would have to go private implying I was a " too posh to push". Anyway, hang in there and get in front ofk someone who can force the issue.
Good luck to all of you who are pushing for their sections and please if anyone has any words of advice before I go in on Monday or any top tips it would be appreciated - even though I am elated to get my section I am also so nervous about it too xx

Hi all,
Just wanted to say reiterate how much this thread has helped me throughout my entire pregnancy and continued push for elective section.
I have my section booked for this Monday so finally the day is here!
NanBullen stick to your guns - ask your consultant to refer you for a psychiatric evaluation. This is what I did and saw a Dr Michael T Isaac ( unfortunately he is in London). Anyway he assessed me and as has nothing to do with getting number of sections reduced was to rally objective. His write up advised that from a psychiatric point of view an elective section was recommended. Once my consultant had this in writing she had to comply - prior to this she had basically been totally unsympathetic and said that an elc was out of the question and if that's what I was pushing for then I would have to go private implying I was a " too posh to push". Anyway, hang in there and get in front ofk someone who can force the issue.
Good luck to all of you who are pushing for their sections and please if anyone has any words of advice before I go in on Monday or any top tips it would be appreciated - even though I am elated to get my section I am also so nervous about it too xx

Lisa, watch they don't try and talk you out of it at the last minute. They will make sure you are 'giving informed consent' which means running through every conceivable and ever recorded risk of c/s in the history of man ( or woman) and not mentioning any of the risks of vaginal birth like anal incontinence, emegency caesarean, agony, psychological trauma blah..blah.

Good luck and if you go into labour early take your psychiatrists phone number and arrange for your partner to kick up hell if they refuse to carry out the c/s because you are in labour.

Isn't this AWFUL? Where does women's choice come into this? GRRR and double GGGG!!!

Thanks LisaClapham.

I've still not heard back from the head midwife about an appointment. I rang on monday (a week after my joke of an appointment with the consultant) and the midwife i spoke to said, well, are you trying for a vbac? when i said no, the exact opposite actually! she lost all interest and said well the head midwife is very booked up until xmas

I said i needed to see her and so she said she'd send her an email. I've to ring back next week if i've not heard anything

Anyway, i then rang the antenatal clinic and said i wanted to see another consultant for a second opinion and got one booked for the beginning of december. here's hoping that this consultant is more sympathetic!

this is really getting on my nerves now. i'm thinking i may discuss induction with guaranteed epidural (if they do this ) because then at least i'd feel a little bit in control. I don't want to give up on the elcs but maybe i'll just have to accept the inevitable.... don't want to though!

Thanks Ushy Having got this far I do not plan on being pushed around. Will def bear this in mind when we go in on Monday. Isn't it terrible the way they try to constantly push you into a "natural" birth when the reality is soo unnatural - I won't go into the full details of my horrific previous experience.
NanBullen just to warn you if you say you are happy for induction with guaranteed epidural they will not take your elcs request seriously and just move forward as normal. I was induced with DS1 and had guaranteed epidural in birth plan and agreed - reality was on the actual day the anesthetist was not available at the time I required and I had to wait an additional 6 hours (of agony) only to be told I was too far gone - although ended up in theatre some hours later for traumatic forceps delivery.
My advice would be stick to your guns for elcs.

Thanks Lisa, i think going for an induction is my absolute last resort. I don't think i'll mention at my next appointment, i'll probably wait until i'm about 36 weeks and if it looks as though i'm definitely not going to get an elcs then i'll talk about induction.

Does it say something that this is one of the biggest psts on Mumsnet - nearly 800 replies?

This is one of the biggest childbirth threads - I have put a link on the mumsnet campaigns link asking mumsnet to run a campaign for more sympathy for traumatised women and that they should not be forced to give birth vaginally. Please sign up to it if you can.

Here is the link www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_campaigns/1087589-Traumatised-women-should-not-be-forced-to-give-birth-vaginally-against-their-will

Look at this comment: GRRR!!!! One reply got so heated their post had to be deleted - not surprised!!!

"Oh FGS.
Have you really nothing better to worry about?

What next?
A MUmsnet campaign to promote handwashing.

Ridiculous."

So I hadn't heard back from the hospital about an appointment with the consultant midwife so i rang again today. i was again asked if it was about a vbac and when i said no the midwife was again dismissive and said well the head midwife is booked up until march next year so you'll just have to discuss your concerns with the consultant

Apparently they hadn't thought to let me know that i wouldn't be getting an appointment.

Obviously i'll be making a complaint, not least about the attitude of the midwife. I'll wait until i see the consultant next week though because chances are she'll be worse than useless as well and it'll save me complaining twice!

I'd ask to be switched to Hinchingbrooke (the other maternity hospital in cambridge) but I've heard they're even worse than addenbrookes so i'm stuck really!

The thing is, it looks as though i'll have to give birth vaginally and since speaking to the so called experts i have absolutely no faith in the hospital (they obviously have no interest in me). I'm actually more scared about it now than ever!

Have my appointment with another consultant today. I'm going to write down a few pointers as to what i want to say as i don't want to get bulldozed again!

Reasons for elcs-

• 2nd degree tear with ds and recovery time from this

• retained placenta so put on syntocinon drip without pain relief. had to wait for 2 hours until i could be taken to theatre. in absolute screaming agony.

• could not hold or bond with baby, see above

• pph 1500 mls

• long recovery time of about 3 weeks. felt very faint every time i stood up and needed help standing up in the shower etc

Basically, I have no problem with the care from the midwives, i just don't feel that the retained placenta issue was handled well. I don't really have faith that the birth will be handled any differently this time as there are clearly staffing issues (esp availabilty of aneasthetists)

I was told by a registrar i saw at 22 weeks that there is a good chance i'll have retained placenta again. If this is so I would like to just go straight to theatre for an elcs and bypass all of the drama quite frankly! Especially as the registrar said that there was no more risk to the baby. I'm prepared to accept a longer recovery time as it took me ages to recover last time anyway.

Anyway, just wanted to get my thoughts down. I'm really not looking forward to this appointment

Also, had ventouse delivery so am clearly a bit crap at the pushing stage!