why are people so against epidurals

[porcamiseria]

I am just curious, as the general vibe here (MN) and with the NCT and some midwifes is they are a bad thing.

I had one as was induced and literally could not cope with pain. I wont go into the whole story but its the usual ventouse, stitches etc. But baby was healthy and fine

My point is for me the epi was a godsend and the intense pains were not bearable.

If it happens again, I will have an epi if I can't cope. am due August, so its pertinent for me

It upsets me rather this attitude that they are to be avoided, as if you DO have one some people might feel like a failure?

Shaz, yes, they know whether it's worked within about 15 mins because of the way you are during your contractions. My first epidural didn't work (I don't remember any of this as I was off the planet) but apparently they said to my dh not to worry because it'll all be better in 15 mins, then when it wasn't they knew it hadn't worked, so they called back the anaesthetist, who then tried again and hit the right spot. And I was back in the room again

Later on he visited us to see ds, and laughingly joked that mine was the second one he'd missed that day. Hilarious

As the thread (as these threads always do) has turned into a list of anecdotes....

My epidural saved my sanity, made me dilate from 3 cm to 10 in 20 minutes and even made me able to tolerate my witch of a MIL in the same room.

I'd have it down as the greatest invention ever and would definitely have another one. Mine was a mobile one, whatever they're called, and I could get up and wonder around as I wished.

porcamiseria (bet you'll be cursing more strongly than that come August, before they jab you! ) Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy, and hope you get, and enjoy, your epidural!

Another anecdote - I was induced and had an epidural. I was glad I did at the time, could feel to push (partly because the epidural fell out before the actual birth ) and had no further interventions. BUT later I got a spinal headache, which happens to 1 in 100 women apparently. It was horrendous - lasted for 5 days and I couldn't lift my head off the pillow without being in terrible pain. Really truly awful with a newborn to look after, I have to say.
So next time I'll avoid an epidural if at all possible. But I would NEVER judge anyone else's birth choices now I've been through it myself. Everyone has completely different things to deal with (position of the baby, induction, size of baby etc), and it's not really about 'pain thresholds' IMO.

I was induced because I didn't go into labour of my own accord within 48 hours of my waters breaking (at term + 13) and had the epi at 5cm. I reckon I'd been in early labour for about a week at that stage (back to back, irregular-but-strengthening contractions).

I did end up with a forceps delivery/prepped for emergency CS with a spinal block BUT I wonder if it wouldn't have been like this anyway. My little man was back to back for my entire pregnancy and despite much floor scrubbing and optimal foetal positioning malarkey on my behalf he stayed that way. He had actually rotated to OA mid labour (after the epi) but rotated back again in the final stage. Monkey. So glad I didn't try that drug free, as much as I hated the forceps delivery.

DD1 - epidural with no ill effects
DD2 - no time for anything

I have had both experiences and would probably have asked for epidural for DD2 if there had been time but there wasn't.

I did get a lot of grief before I had DD1 as I was quite sure I wouldn't be able to cope with the pain. Got a lot of unwanted advice from people telling me not to have one.

I did what was right for me at the time. And would have the confidence to tell people to butt out if they were trying to influence my decision-making about labour.

If I went on to have a third (which I don't intend to do) I wouldn't have another epidural as I know now that I could most likely manage without.

But I would never judge anyone who wanted one or more epidurals. It's their call.

Had one and hated it. I had it because was induced and went from 0-60 on the pain scale immediately my waters were broken by the doc and an oxytocin drip put in.

Slowed everything down so labour took forever and then when it was time to push couldn't feel the contractions so it was a nightmare. Nearly had to have a ventouse but at last minute the episiotomy they gave me managed to help me.

Next time, I really hope I can avoid induction and also epidural.

To the OP - I understood it to be because the 'numbing' could affect the baby as well as the 'targeted area', and so risk making the baby less alert during the birth, slowing things down.

I was really surprised when everyone congratulated me on my epi-free birth as it didn't seem like much of a big deal to me. I had an epesiotomy and ventouse as DS was back to back so maybe, like someone else said, the local made crowning less painful. G&A is so fucking lovely that I didn't feel as though I needed anything else and I'm allergic to pethidine anyway.

My SiL had to have an epi for her second and her graphic description of the needle in her spine put me off so much that I would have tolerated an awful lot more before I asked for the epidural. I was lucky though, I have a couple of friends who laboured for days and, jesus, who wouldn't have all the pain relief they could get in that situation?

It's interesting to hear that other countries do not have this whole stiff-upper-lip is best approach to pain relief; how ridiculously British of us! My NHS ante-natal classes were also quite anti-epi. We had a yoga teacher come in a couple of times and she told us that we should try to birth without G&A for the "full experience"! and fuck that!

Lots of reasons - for me its because more change of intervention - ie epis/forceps/cs. My view is that yes you avoid labour pains but more likely to have ongoing pain afterwards. I don't know why you were induced but once you are on the intervention cascade anyway may as well have the epidural as induced labour more intense/painful in any case.

With DS natural birth (although did use tens/G&A/water) and totally recovered around 7 days later when the bruising had gone. Was in park pushing DD on swing around 10 hours after the birth.

And as others have pointed out NCT is the natural childbirth trust, so why would you go to a NCT class if you didn't want a natural childbirth?

Errm.... It's the National Childbirth Trust!

Having said that, IME of NCT classes there is a big focus on natural methods, so personally I wouldn't have paid the money if I hadn't been totally committed to fully using all the natural methods they promote. My classes had a really big focus on breathing, and relaxation, and tbh I wouldn't see the point if you weren't fully intending to go for a pretty much non-medicalised birth. The classes did discuss epidurals and Csections, not in a judgemental way, but just to give the facts/risks info.

ok, didn't realise but set up by birth activists like sheila kitzinger who is passionate about natural birth

Yes I understand Violet but do they give the information and balanced opinion about dealing with the consequences of pain of natural birth, both emotionally and physically? I know that many women who give birth naturally have positive feelings about their birth experience, but I also know personally many women who 'didn't have time' to have an epidural and have had some severe psychological scaring from the pain. One of my good friend (who is a psychologist) her first birth was very quick and didn't have time for any drugs but gas and air. The baby got stuck, my friend was in agony, they had to use forceps without an epi. She was in so much pain that it took her years to try for another baby. She had flashbacks, nighmares about it months afterwards. She had problems bonding with her girl. I'm not sure if people who advocate natural birth without medical pain control really give out the full pros and cons about it. If it's about informed decision, then we should have more information about some of the risks associated with not having pain medicines.

Hey
No worries re your decisions re pain management - the issue here as I see it is the risk of someone sticking a ruddy big needle into your spine and the well documented risk of long term damage/effects. If you are willing to take that risk then all the best - I wasn't and that was simply my decision but no doubt heavily influenced by my mum being a health visitor and knowing a number of women who paid a high price for the rest of their lives when the needle went into something it shouldn't - it does happen and is not necessarily a failure on the part of the anaesthetist but bad luck.
Life is all about balancing risks and the best course is to be well informed so that you understand what you might be letting yourself in for. The worst case scenario is the hell of 'if only I had known, if only someone had told me' Just make sure that there is no other combination of pain relief that you might be able to manage with even if it does not switch it off like an epidural.
Very best wishes.

Blueberry - I'm sure there is some degree of variation in the quality of teaching, but personally I found my NCT classes excellent at giving the full picture. The teacher didn't romaticize anything - just gave us honest straightforward information. I didn't go into labour expecting it to be a picnic - I expected it to hurt like hell, and even then I was shocked at the level of pain, but I'm glad I had the support of NCT classes to help me get through a natural birth.

with my second baby i had an induction without epidural. yes it was intense, and fast. but there was no way i was having an epidural, even though i was offered it several times.

Anyone who "admires" a woman for having a baby without an epidural needs to get out there and find better things to admire. Why is it admirable? I just don't get it. What is so impressive about being in pain?

After my 36 hour labour with a back-to-back baby who eventually came out by forceps (with an epidural, of course) my husband's friend asked me if I felt "a lack of achievement".

Words failed me.

I agree Solongasitshealthy, I admire women who face other horrendous challenges in their life but giving birth without an epidural? Whatever. I find the smugness of women who bang on about giving birth 'naturally' really unbearable - and FWIW, I've done it both ways. I was screaming for the epi the second time - was induced, the pain was out of this world. But couldn't have one because there were a couple of emergencies and the docs were all busy.

Every birth is different, there are a myriad of factors involved in how painful it's going to be - we don't all suffer the same degree of period pain do we? - so assuming that everyone should have to get by on G&A or whatever is just nonsense. Pain relief options are there for a reason.

SoLongAsItsHealthy

I think that's a really weird thing to do, to ask someone if they felt a lack of achievement!

But I would guess that's pretty unusual.

I do think there's some confusion around the whole issue though, because some people feel that if a woman feels positive things about her own natural birth, it is somehow an implied criticism of other people's birth experiences. Which it isn't.

I felt tremendously proud of myself for managing my births without drugs, particularly the first one. It's not about being in pain being 'impressive.' Not at all. I had decided that I didn't want the risks associated with heavy duty pain relief, and I managed to get through it. It's difficult to explain, but I felt a huge natural high. I also felt ecstatic after my (pretty much pain free) Csection with dd2, but it was a different feeling.

Nothing wrong with that. I'm not remotely bothered how other women choose to have their babies - no judgement about it. But equally, I'm not going to be judged and told I shouldn't be proud of my natural birth.

i was induced without an epidural. it wasn't pleasant or successful.

i felt very proud of myself for surviving it and producing a baby.

There are risks and benefits of an epidural. They're not 'bad.'

But if you can manage without, it IS a lot safer for you and your baby. The US has a very high epidural rate which leads to managed birth, restriction on activity and upright positioning in labour which slows labour down and often causes it to stall, bumping up the assisted delivery rate.

And actually, there is considerable evidence that epidurals make caesareans more likely. actually, there is considerable evidence that epidurals make This study for example, from pubmed found that epidurals almost tripled the risk of caesarean.

Epidurals also carry some significant side effects and risk of their own. I know someone whose blood pressure crashed terrifyingly after an epidural. It can cause very low blood pressure and there is a small risk of spinal damage and persistent back and headache.

It's up to you if you have one. They have significant benefits (in that they relieve pain) but in a normal labour, there are other methods for dealing with pain that might be worth trying, rather than laughing off, before you decide on an epidural.

I think the kind of implied criticism as experienced by SoLongasItsHealthy (and many others, I've had people say to me "oh so you didn't have a natural birth then?" Well, last time I looked, natural meant babies came out of vaginas which is the way I did it) says a lot about the insecurities of the person doing the criticising. There is nothing more snide and bitchy (as can be documented day after day on parenting forums worldwide) than the judgements of women on other women's choices.

You preferred to sniff lavender oil and give birth underwater whilst listening to Take That? Fine and dandy.

You yelled for the drugs 5 mins in? Fine and dandy.

Women (in the UK and other countries where "empowerment" is a buzzword) insist on having their birth choices, but omit to say that what they mean is that only their choice is valid. Pah.

There are risks with an epidural. Yep. There are risks with a prolonged labour causing fetal distress that an epidural and/or c-section might alleviate/exacerbate depending on individual circumstances. There are risks with getting out of bed in the morning. There are risks not getting out of bed in the morning.....

I feel proud of myself for digging my heels in and telling my Italian doctors that I was going to have an epidural even though I was being told that "The Madonna didn't have an epidural".

OFFS, what is up with my links? this study. Sorry.

That's really interesting -thanks Carmen

Oooh, our NCT antenata teacher was v v judgey about epidurals.

It's wrong that women don't know how it feels to give birth to their own babies apparently. They should only be used as a last resort after 3 days back to back labour apparently.