why are people so against epidurals

[porcamiseria]

I am just curious, as the general vibe here (MN) and with the NCT and some midwifes is they are a bad thing.

I had one as was induced and literally could not cope with pain. I wont go into the whole story but its the usual ventouse, stitches etc. But baby was healthy and fine

My point is for me the epi was a godsend and the intense pains were not bearable.

If it happens again, I will have an epi if I can't cope. am due August, so its pertinent for me

It upsets me rather this attitude that they are to be avoided, as if you DO have one some people might feel like a failure?

It's not just one or two people in the NCT, it's the NCT's original standpoint - pro-natural birth. Anyone who worked for them 30 years ago had to be against intervention, because it's what the organisation stood for. It's only relatively recently that they've allowed people who feel differently to lead groups.

We had a trainee NCT leader in our sessions who'd had much intervention in her births (and didn't breastfeed ), and the leader made sure that she didn't continue after our group because she wasn't 'NCT' enough!

However, I did like our leader, and I'm so glad that I went to our classes because I've made wonderful friends from them. We all slightly resented the 'no waivering on intervention' stance (some having necessary cs, which was also disapproved of), but it bonded us as a group afterwards

I think it's just a risk/benefit kind of thing. I don't think they should be given as a matter of course, but nobody should feel bad if they choose to have one.

I liked being able to move around for my birth and use the birth pool, etc. This wouldn't have been possible had I had an epidural - however I would have quite liked one just for the crowning stage I wouldn't have had a problem going for one if I had needed it, but I was also put off by the thought of a huge needle in my spine, just never got to the point as someone mentioned above that I felt it was a better option.

I don't think it's the same as having dental work etc - the pain is there for a reason, it's functional, so if you can cope without pain medication as thousands of women have done for millennia (I know that a lot more women used to die before modern medicine, but the majority did manage, or we wouldn't be here) - I just think why would it be painful for no reason?

The reason many women don't want an epidural is due to the increased risk of intervention such as forceps and ventouse.

That's it really.

I don't think it's anything more sinister than that. I have known one or two women who have a real urge to experience every moment of the pain fully, and are motivated by that, but I imagine that's fairly unusual. I think a lot of women are somewhere in the middle - they don't relish the pain, but they also know that in the majority of cases, a birth can be natural, and they choose this over the medicalised scenario which an epidural means. I also didn't want to have my baby in a large hospital, which I guess is another factor, as MLUs or home births won't give you the option of epidural anyway. Having said that, my last baby was a VBAC in hospital but I didn't have an epidural then either - I figured that if I'd managed my first baby without, number 3 would be easier!

Actually Bertie - you sound like me! I found crowning excruciating, and would have quite liked an epidural to not have to feel that part! But the downside of that would have been having to be numbed up for possibly hours beforehand, and I guess gritting my teeth and tolerating the pain was the preferable option.

As you say, it's risks and benefits.

I had an epidural with both last two and do feel like a failure so I do know what you mean.
I want to be able to prove to myself with this next birth that I CAN do it naturally.
I was most annoyed by how slowed down things were because of epidurals.
I am homebirthing to take away the stress of hospital in hope that I'll be able to deal with pain better.
If I went to hospital I know I'd just think 'fuck it give me an epidural again'.

I think I'll be more proud of myself if I get through it without

I was induced, so had an epidural. It only worked down one side, so my experience was that they don't necessarily stop you from being in agony - I was in an utterly ridiculous amount of pain, so I dread to think what it would have been like without anything.

The other downer of course was being strapped to monitors so confined to bed - but that was happening anyway as DS's heartbeat was fluctuating. Nothing to do with the epi. No, it wasn't great having a drip in my hand, and no it wasn't fun being unable to walk and having to sponge myself off on the bed afterward, but I didn't feel my DS crowning at all (at least, I don't think I did; I'd been awake a day anda half by that point so it's all a bit fuzzy now), and I didn't feel the jab for the local anaesthetic they gave me for the episiotomy, (I don't even remember being told I'd had that one) or the one for when they stitched me up afterward.

I certainly couldn't have coped without my epidural - but then I have epilepsy, so all other pain relief options were out of the question. At the end of the day, it's a proceedure with pros and cons like any other, which have to be weighed up. I do agree that there's far too much hate about them in some circles, but perhaps that has come about to counter the overwhelming love they sometimes get from other people? Or perhaps the two camps have evolved in parallel?

I wouldn't send anyone into a delivery suite without making them aware of the risks or potential variations in the experience they could have with an epidural - and clearly it really can vary a lot - but I certainly wouldn't try and put them off, either.

is crowning that bad? see I didn't know this because of epidurals.
Although I though mine mostly wore off by that part, I found pushing brilliant because I was actually doing something.
Sitting on this friggin bed wired up for 8 hours straight not being able to move and having to wee in a tub was bloody awful for me, I wanted to scream.
20 minutes of pushing was a brilliant progression and was so happy when it was over.
The drip in my hand (because of epidural) ruinned most of my experiences with my new little babies, I was almost crying and begging for them to take the stupid thing out at a time when I should have just been enjoying my baby.
I'm sure that needle went through my hand inside up to my risk, that hand was entirely incapacitated and was just completely horrible having it there.

But if you only have an epidural that works down one side, surely that is the worst of both worlds, because you can still feel the pain but you can't get up and move around or use a birth pool etc to help manage the pain a bit more.

I think this is what I was most scared of with an epidural!

I also had a catheter put in as epidural left me unable to feel my muscles that I needed to use to wee (great fun)
but at least I didn't feel the catheter either! or the stitching afterwards, woopee

good point bertiebotts that does sound bad!!

I always think that if a women doesn't need an epidural, then it obviously didn't hurt that much.

Now there are lots of reasons why this might be so, but rather than make the judgement about the actual pain relief, why not make a judgement instead about why the woman did/didn't want it and work hard on this issue instead!?

Bertie, i wasn't allowed a pool because of my epilepsy. As I said, for me it literally was epidural or nothing.

Also, I do have joint problems anyway - the pain I felt was as much from being in one place for so long and my hip doing something it often does as anything. For me, the bad bit was that I still hurt between contractions. When they moved my legs and strapped me into stirrups (okay, so yeah, dignity did go out of the window quite a bit) it suddenly got a lot better.

mumtotwoboys - yeah, the drip really pissed me off too. DS was born 5:30 pm and they wouldn't take the bloody thing out til the next day! They tried to get it into my arm rather than my hand, but I have such crap veins from years of having blood tests all the time that they couldn't find a vein and it went in the back of my hand. When they handed my DS to me I dropped him.

It is to do with the epidural interferring with the natural endorphins which can get you through labour and birth. I'd imagine in places in the world where epidurals simply aren't an option they have to look for alternatives which in turn makes the whole process easier for the mother and baby.

I've had an epidural and two natural births so far and the first was by far the worse, epidural slowed everything down, led to induction and then cutting and tearing, i felt like i'd been run over.

And yeah, had a catheter too. That bit was a lot better than I'd thought actually - before labour the bit I dreaded the most was 'having a catheter out in' and it was actually bliss not to have to stagger out to the bathroom and sit on the loo mid contraction. I could just switch off in terms of bladder function and focus on getting my DS out.

Ugh I will do anything to avoid that fucking drip.
I just hate them being in control of things like that, your first precious hours with baby and they wont take it out for several hours, or a whole night! ARG. Then they say you can go in the morning but you have to sit in hope for 6 hours for a consultant to be available to discharge you, complete lack of control over everything.
Must not go to hospital.

MMM, do you know it was the epi which slowed everything down? If it was your first birth, might that not have happened anyway? Sorry, don't know the details. But I went into labour, and then stopped and had to be induced, and that had nothing to do with the epidural - I just couldn't sustain labour on my own. (The epi came at the same time as the induction for me)

mumtotwoboys - I think different people find different parts the worst. None of it;s a picnic, contractions HURT, but personally I found crowning the worst part, I think because the thought of tearing freaked my out so much. As it turned out, I did tear which felt horrendous, but at least with crowning you're near the end.

My NCT used the old trick of getting us to put a finger in each side of our mouth and pull gradually sideways...then keep pulling even when it starts to hurt.... she said that's what crowning feels like x 100 - and I think she was spot on, specially first time round when your body hasn't donw it before.

People have mentioned the cascade of interventions, so I won't bang on about it as well.

I know this viewpoint is a very crude one, but how can a needle going into your spine be a good thing? And then all the other associated things that come with an epidural, a catheter in your arm and a catheter in your bladder. They're all infection risks that could be avoided in some situations.

I had an epidural with ds1 because of an emerg csection. DS2 was a vbac in a pool at home and I have to say that during transition if someone had mentioned an epidural I would have said yes. But being at home there isn't that option - and I was glad of that.

If you are in the most pain you have ever experienced and someone offers to take it away there aren't many people who would say no. But it's not always the best thing for them.

mumtotwoboys - as I mentioned above, ds was a waterbirth and I never felt him crown. The MW had to tell me he had! Maybe the water softens the perinieum? Or I have a wizards sleeve

Wrt crowning, I had a ventouse delivery and episiotomy - but no epidural. They gave me some local anasthetic before they cut me and I didn't feel the crowning at all. In fact I remember (through the fog of contraction pain) feeling suprised when they said the head was born - I really hadn't felt it. I did then feel the rest of my baby slithering out however. It's always puzzled me that I didn't feel her head crowning and being born but I'm guessing it was down to the local anasthetic for the episiotomy [shrug]

mumtotwoboys - I don'thave a choice, sadly. I have to have consultant-led as there are so many risks of complications with me.

But diven that they gave me absoultely sod all through that drip this time around, next time I'll be sorely tempted to wait until no one's look and remove the damned thing myself. (Can you tell I've long since lost all squeamishness about needles )

I had ds1 without any pain relief. It was really painful but I never felt out of control & coped really well.

With ds2 I was in horrendous pain at only 2cms & asked for an epidural in spite of having always said it was the one thing I didn't want. It hurt so much more than when I had ds1 & the mw said it was because his head wasn't in the right position as I also pushed for a really long time before he came out.

I narrowly avoided intervention both times (ventouse 1st, episiotomy 2nd) due to dropping heart rate. I was in more pain 2nd time round due to baby being in a bad position which led to the epidural & made intervention more likely. If I'd needed intervention 2nd time round it would have been because of the positioning of the baby which is why I was in so much pain. So while more women who have intervention have had epidurals maybe that is because of some sort of birth complication making the labour more painful rather than because of the epidural. There's a point in there somewhere I'm just struggling to word it properly

Personally I wouldn't have an epidural again. I had one because I couldn't sit or lie down during a contraction and consequently had been practically standing for 24 hours and was exhausted and needed to lie down (as well as pain). They made me lie down on a bed and put in the drip etc and it really hurt. Then it took an hour for the doc to turn up and put in. Then it failed, so I was still in pain but unable to move and was on my back in the most painful position, they put a catheter in, that hurt as well, the tube into my spine hurt. Doc came back after an hour of screaming. Still failed. Strangely enough it was at that point that the labour speed up, and I told them when I needed to push, and I needed to get off my back. Again they refused me because "I had had an epidural" and therefore was not allowed to because my legs were numb. Then I had to scream at them to give my a local anaesthetic before they stiched me up because they said I didn't need one because I had an epidural.

Anyway my point is that I wasn't aware that they could fail so badly and make everything so much worse. If I was aware of that I probably wouldn't have asked for one. However that is just one personal experience that probably doesn't happen very often.

I think I was offered just gas and air first time I was stitched. The second time I had a local anaesthetic, but am pretty sure it was just gas and air first time. I was quite happy tbh (compared to giving birth, stitching was a walk in the park!) but wonder if my memory is correct? Perhaps a midwife can answer?

I have an epidural question. When I had my CS spinal, they sprayed me with something (ice water I think) to test it. I could feel the water all they way down my legs, but it was only icy cold from my boobs upwards (that's how they knew it worked). Do they test the epidural too?

Shaz yes they did to me