Unassisted Birth Rights

[Nataliejayne85]

Hi!
I was wondering if anyone could direct me to what my rights are to have an unassisted birth in reality.
I met a nurse yesterday who very bluntly said it was illegal to which I informed her it wasn't!
I am not very far along and I am already being wound up by the medical profession, I don't mind being given the information but I feel that I am being bullied which is why I am relucent to have even midwife present (though may consider if funds allow an indepentant midwife but as I don't want to be checked, I don't want to be causing trouble for a midwife RE her legal responsibilties and requirements). Also having experienced bad medical practice in the past I know saying NO doesn't mean NO to everyone and I do not want to be worrying about people not listening to me.
Also can I have other people in the house at the time of the birth or will they be held responsible if something went wrong, even if I refused their help?
Also anyone know any good legal people to draw up paperwork re unassisted birth if applicable?

Thanks

You can do what you want but it's on your head, AFAIK.

I think most people on here would describe unassisted birth as foolhardy.

I think you might be surprised what sort of support you can get if you push for what you want within your local healthcare arrangements.

Please do not do this. Read up on everything, be armed with facts and figures and be ready to stand up for yourself with midwives and doctors (if necessary get a partner with a backbone or a doula) BUT please allow a medical professional (midwife or doc) to be present at the birth. The reason you may feel you are being bullied is because most midwives and doctors will think you are nuts wanting this.

You would be mad to even consider it.

Its not illegal - noone can FORCE you to have medical help - but I think you'd be mad. What if something went wrong? How could you live with yourself?

Hi NataliJayne

Can't really reply about your query re unassisted birth as I know nothing about it and it does seem a bit dangerous to me.

I would strongly suggest using and independant midwife if you can afford it and find one you like. I had some for my DS and they were fab and very discreet. Mostly I wanted to be left alone and I didn't want any internal examinations. They never did internal examinations because that was my request and a good midwife knows how you are progressing without it anyway. She must have checked my blood pressure and the baby's heartbeat on dry land may be twice, but because she was satified with the results, didn't insist on more. I think that when I was in the pool and near pushing she must have monitored the baby's heart rate with a sonicaid but to be honest she was so discreet and I was so within myself that I didn't really notice.

I personally think it is the best of both world as there aren't so many intrusions on your labour (as there would be in hospital or with a NHS midwife) but at the same time, I could really relax as I knew I and the baby were very safe should something go wrong.

Good luck with whatever you are deciding but please be safe.

There is plenty of info out there on freebirthing
There was a doc on Channel 4 a couple of years ago

Unassisted births are known as "free-birthing" so you might want to google that.

The midwife I had with my home birth was extremly unintrusive - it was as if she did nothing, apart from clean up the mess afterwards. But obviously, she did much more than that, bless her.

If you think the midwife won't liten to you, you need somone else there to act as an advocate for you, such as your partner or a doula....

it is not illegal to have someone with you who acts as a midwife, who is not a qualified midwief is illegal

if you are going to do it,and i strongly recommedn you don't, then please read up on neonatal resuc and ensure you avhe someone with you who can call 999 if you or your baby is in troubel

there is a big difference between an unassisted birth and a homebirth with an IM or NHS midwife in a different room , but present in case needed

you can labour without any VEs being done

i think the important thing to take on board is if you have an unassisted birth and the baby is compromised, or you are , in any way , how will you and the father cope>?

if you are going to go for an unassisted brith, i would ensure you have all your AN care done, to ensure you are aware of any possible complications, such as breech, low lying placenta, large/small for dates baby

meant to say, " it is illegal to have someone with you who acts as a midwife, who is not a qualified midwief but acts as a mw"

Just to say that when I had DD2 in NHS Midwife led unit they only did one internal exam (and thank god they did as they didn't think I was far on when I was actually fully dilated!) I had no interventions (apart from gas and air) and they disappeared off as soon as I had her.

That was exactly my experience, too, lal123.

Its not illegal for you to give birth unassisted but it is illegal for anyone who is not a qualified midwife to attend to you except in an emergency situation.

So if you husband/partner helps you he can be prosecuted. The law is fuzzy with regards to what 'attend' actually means and anyone in the house with you may leave themselves open to prosecution especially if they declare intent to assist you.

In the 80s a man was prosecuted for 'attending' his wifes birth because before the birth he said that he and his wife had no intention of sending for a midwife and were going to do it themselves.

The nurse that you spoke to was correct in that there are laws in place around the role of an attending person. They are not clear however, but are more likely to be invoked if during the labour and birth process, you or your baby suffered trauma, injury or death.

N, of course it's not illegal for you to give birth alone.

In fact there was even a case where some poor woman in labour was refusing a C section (in hospital), the hospital went to court over it and the judge said you have an absolute right to refuse medical treatment even if your unborn child will die. She won. I found that decision was encouraging - it was just before I had my twins 11 years ago although I did have independent midwives.

My father delivered my sister at home as the midwife had not got there in time (but he was a doctor).

In the C section case the doctors were trying to argue that a woman in labour cannot make decisions, isn't competent but the court did not agree and here is would be you alone and taking a decision now in advance.

It's inasane that the way in which a woman gives birth should be dictated by law, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was!

I stupidly told my midwife that baby would probably sleep with me when born, I got an earful of how dangerous that was, and THEN a very indirect threat of 'I wouldn't hesitate to make a social services referal if I needed to, let me make this clear, I do not think that is needed 'right now'"
Basically you have to do whatever they say.

We're not free at all.

Just play ball, don't tell them in you plan to co-sleep, don't tell them if you plan to give birth as humans have been giving birth for millions of years (without proffessionals).
Tell them what they want to hear.
Sorry but that can be learnt the hard way or the easy way.

actually, mummy2byapril, historically, women ahve always given birth with assistance.

even back to biblical times

the midwife has existed in some form or another for ever, whether it was a village elder, or someone's granny who had had 15 babies of her own.. women don't tend to birth alone

co sleeping when done safely, is not a reason to be referred to SS, your MW is clearly misinformed and scare mongering.

avoiding ante natal care and giving birth alone are two very foolhardy things to do , and more likely to lead to further interventions and referrals.

natalie visit here for some amazing unassisted birth info/vids/interview. I myself am truly amazed by this woman...in a good way

I am always a bit at people liek the woman in the link who cite Evolution as evidence that a natural process like childbirth or breastfeeding ought to work without complication every time. Is that how they think evolution works: by every individual surviving intact?

Surely their biology teacher ought to have explained to them that evolution is based on the majority of individuals not surviving and being able to reproduce? That's how you get survival of the fittest and the evolution (=enhanced potential for survival) of the species. Not the individual. Under natural circumstances, weaker individuals (that would have been my dcs) die at birth or in infancy.

Yes, historically women have given birth without professional attendance (and in many parts of the world still do), but in a healthy, well-nourished population you would expect a maternal mortality rate of about 1% (this is based on religious groups within the US who refuse any intervention - many developing countries have much higher rates). There are no figures for neonatal deaths / stillbirths but it will be much higher - they are statistically generally much more at risk of adverse outcomes than the mother.

Just because it's natural certainly doesn't mean it's risk free.

lulumaam
I meant without NHS proffesionals.
I watched a documentary on a tribe where women were expected to give birth alone.

Who is saying unassisted birth is risk free? it's obviously far more dangerous in general, I think mortality rates were something like 50% in that tribe!
But that's beside the point.
If a woman wants to risk her baby possibly dying in order to give birth alone, why shouldn't she be allowed to?
Can you really arrest a woman for wanting to give birth alone?

As I said above it is lawful if you are alone or hire your own midwife. That doesn't mean it's a good idea but in terms of the law I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Lulumaam I like your post, I agree giving birth with some form of assistance is probably the norm historically.

I thought you guys were referring to me thinking I was saying it's risk free cause it's natural.
Nature is about death as much as it is life, I know that :-)

I think it should be a woman's choice to go give birth alone and refuse antinatal care.
But it's probably not our choice in this country.

Cory, a species will not survive at all if the majority of individuals don't survive or are not able to reproduce.

I find it so sad that the anti natal 'care' we receive in this country leads us to desire an unassisted birth. I totally understand your feelings but would urge you to find an IM that you like and trust. If you just hire their services for the later weeks of pregnancy and birth then it may not need be a huge expense.

I cannot understand people who hark back to some sort of mythical time 'before medicine' where women were allowed to get on with it and all was well with the world. They still had mothers/sisters/older women of the community assisting them through labour. Oh, and lots of them - and their babies - died.

In fact, the same situation happens in the developing (ie. majority) world today.

OP, you have every right to choose where and how you labour, but don't think that by ignoring the (small but very real) risks of birth they will go away. At least have someone on standby that can act on your behalf if there is an emergency.