Unassisted Birth Rights

[Nataliejayne85]

Hi!
I was wondering if anyone could direct me to what my rights are to have an unassisted birth in reality.
I met a nurse yesterday who very bluntly said it was illegal to which I informed her it wasn't!
I am not very far along and I am already being wound up by the medical profession, I don't mind being given the information but I feel that I am being bullied which is why I am relucent to have even midwife present (though may consider if funds allow an indepentant midwife but as I don't want to be checked, I don't want to be causing trouble for a midwife RE her legal responsibilties and requirements). Also having experienced bad medical practice in the past I know saying NO doesn't mean NO to everyone and I do not want to be worrying about people not listening to me.
Also can I have other people in the house at the time of the birth or will they be held responsible if something went wrong, even if I refused their help?
Also anyone know any good legal people to draw up paperwork re unassisted birth if applicable?

Thanks

"And mums who give birth without a health professional present seem to have much lower rates of birth injuries, oddly enough."

tittybangbang - you'd have to consider all factors that might lead to birth injuries, including things like size and position of baby relative to mother's physiology and so on. If 'born before arrival' babies are babies born to mothers who were meant to be attended (or in hospital) but things went too fast, then you've got a self-selected group of births that were able to happen without health professionals (babies capable of arriving faster than the health professionals could). Babies that are never going to come out without intervention (for whatever reason) by definition can't be in that group, so you'd expect that their absence from the group would lower the statistical rate of birth injuries relative to the norm.

That doesn't mean of course that being in hospital or attended can't raise the statistical rate of birth injuries - possibly it does. But you can't take the 'bba' group as representing any kind of norm because by definition there's a whole class of 'difficult' and 'slow' births it can't include.

NatalieJayne, it seems from reading your posts that you don't already have any children? So you are basing your assumptions on how labour will be/what will happen on other peoples experiences?

And you know that we are not talking about prosecuting people who don't get to the hospital on time or the mw doesn't get to them in time, we are talking about people who purposely plan not to use a midwife. Which is a completly different situation.

"Then we'd have more children in care as this would be a child neglect incident then they wouldn't be allowed to have children, work with children or vulunerable adults"

I don't even get what you mean here. And did you google Janet Fraser? You couldn't get somebody more clued up on freebirthing if you tried.

Randi Hutter Epstein?s new book Get Me Out: A History of Childbirth From the Garden of Eden to the Sperm Bank may be a very good one for you...

sunshiney why is labor so terrifying?

stewie, I agree, the whole thing sounds utterly naive and immature

Natalie tbh it doesn't even seem that you are worried about bad birth stories, you seem to have made your mind up based on being 'wound up' and a nurse telling you 'birthing on your own is illegal'

Winnie you said what I was going to say - but so much better.

That small sample us a self selecting group.

Op - morally I think you have to consider that this isn't just about you and your birth experience. There is the baby to consider and also your husband - how will he cope if things go wrong? Is it right to ask this of him? Is it right to jeopardise your baby's health?

sunshiney I agree that if she eventually goes for a hospital or midwife attended homebirth then speaking up for herself is what she needs to do...but its not always that easy, once your in labor, like myself I have hardly any confidence when it comes to voicing my opinion 'in real life', I just cant spit the words out...Even though I said NO to an injection, and was pressured into having it anyway by 3mw's while DP went to get a drink...I just couldnt manage 'fuck off' I am such a calm person and when I went in into well established labor I could hardly think, let alone speak for I was 'tuning' into my body and my baby...I didnt even speak to DP hardly...and after 3 months and realising I had 'something wrong' with me and they way I was feeling, I contacted the chief exec of the hospital and compplained, to have him pass it on to the head of midwifery and write me a letter to say 'sorry'....I wish I had spoken up, I really do, I just couldnt.

I guess OP you really need to tell your DP/H everything that you 'want' out of your birth experience so that he can be your advocate (your voice).

Of a small sample of my friends, two have children with develpmental problems due to problems during birth; several, like me, had a child in foetal distress, c-section and SPUC care; two others hospitalised with jaundice; others suffered third degree tears, another almost managed a natural birth but they had topush the baby back in and perform emcs because the cord too tightly round neck; hell, dd3 was breech -,have you considered that; another friend of a friend had complications and her baby was stillborn.

I have 4 friends who had lovely natural births - two at home.

I think you are being naive. It isn't about your rights, it's about a safe delivery.

"Labour is frankly terrifying"

Well it shouldn't be, and being frightened of it really doesn't help!

Try reading "Childbirth Without Fear", Grantly Dick-Read for details.

That book is Brill smile and could help the OP come to a conclusion about her own situation...being scared of something only makes things worse...I wasnt scared of labor or birth, I welcomed it, enjoyed it, it wasnt painful for me...I had anatural delivery witha premie baby who was born just fine...I could probably say that If I was soo scared of hospitals before I had dd that I probably would of ended up having a panic attack and halting labor, contracting high blood pressure, resorting in a pictocin drip and maybe some more intervention to get baby out. Dont be scared by what others tell you about thier births...my dd's care wouldnt have been so bad if I was a nurse or doctor myself...I would have known what they were doing, why and all the rest..yet I didnt and blame myself for 'letting things happen'...dont do this, know that you can birth a baby, dont have high expectations, write a birth plan but be prepared for it not to go exactly to plan, and rejoice in the end at having a baby in your arms - whichever way you choose to birth.

Personally, I cannot imagine anything more terrifying than Janet Fraser's experience.

just out of interest, why do people want to refuse VEs during labour? not adding any scathing emotion to that whatsoever, just confused about what the issue there is- is it medical or not wanting to be fiddled with?

I wish people wouldnt pick stories like 'janet fraser'...her baby dies of a cardiac arrest and they also say thet there was no evidence to say the baby wasnt stillborn. Cardiac arrest in a newborn baby can be from anything: chromosonal abnormalities, rare genetic disorders and metabolic disorders...Janet frasers baby dies, yes, but a baby dies in the US of cardiac arrest or being stillborn every 15-20 minutes! Its sad story but not one to use to scare women into thinking they shouldnt give birth at home without medical help. I profoundly doubt if that baby was born in a hodpital that it wouldnt have come off with some sort of brain injury/trauma or severe chromosonal abnormalities.

we do have at least one mumsnetter whose baby is severely brain damaged because a homebirth went wrong and they did not reach the hospital in time; she has frequently mentioned it herself so I hope she won't mind my mentioning it

as for myself, there is absolutely no way I would have known that ds' heartbeat had dropped dramatically if I hadn't been monitored in hospital; I thought labour was progressing fine so would no doubt had laboured on happily

Natalie,
Childbirth is just a day (or two) out of your life, it's not the be all and end all. So why go out of your way to be be different? All you want, surely, is for your baby to be here safely and then you can get on with the important bit - raising your son or daughter.
It makes absolutely no difference to anything at all how the baby gets out, the main thing is, that you and baby do so safely.
I had two very natural, non intervention births in hospital, no tears, no drama, nothing. Yes of course it hurt like hell but that was all. It's just like going to the dentist - you COULD pull your own teeth out at home, but why on esrth would you want to when a dentist can do it so much better and more safely?
We are so so lucky in the West to have the facilities and expertise to almost guarantee a safe delivery of baby and survival of the mother. Why people don't appreciate that is beyond me.
All you are going to do is wind everyone up and have a drama - and for what? Just go to hosital and have a normal birth like everyone else. There's no need to be special or different.
And I guarantee you that once your lovely healthy baby arrives, it will be the best day of your life. It really will.

did you know cory that electrical fetal monitoring for over a certain amount of time can actually put a baby into distress??? It happened with dd.

tricky a womans birth is not just one or two days out of her life, she carries that moment forever...and of course it matters how 'baby gets out' - its been known for babies that have had calm waterbirths at home are very calm babies and children as they grow...not only does the place in which you give birth affect the way a mother thinks and feels, it can affect baby too.
how can you justify pulling your own teeth out at home, I know I fucking couldnt!!!!!

'just go to hospital and have a normal birth like everyone else' - how incredibly unthoughtful are you??? most women who go to hospital dont end up with 'normal' births like you...

Chellesgirl, that may well be so, but I hadn't been monitored for very long at all, so unlikely to have had an effect in my case. Otoh ds does have health problems that we had no means of knowing about at the time.

why would you have not known then cory about your dc's heartbeat, dont you think the midwife at home could have listened for it with a Doppler??? (if your dc's case wasnt to do with his illness)

Yes, but this thread was discussing unassisted births, chellesgirl. If I had had an unassisted home birth, then by definition there wouldn't have been a midwife listening to anything with a doppler.

None of my remarks have anything to do with assisted home births since that is not what the thread was about.

Chelles girl, I just cannot really get why people bang on for months and years afterwards about how their kids were born and make such a goddam fuss about it. That's all I'm saying.
I cannot believe having a waterbirth would make a kid have a personality that's different to the one he/she would have had anyway and will develop thanks to his/her family situation. Just think about it for a moment - that has got to be an absolute load of bollocks, surely? You're saying that swimming up through water for what, 10 seconds, instead of popping out into air, makes a difference to their personality. Come on...
And I HAD a waterbirth, so I ain't knocking it.
I'm just saying, OP is clearly worrying herself sick over the birth to the point where she is contemplating something that (to me) seems utterly barking.
I honestly don't carry the moment of my kids' births with me forever, I smile when I think of it and have a laugh at how much it hurt and what a big deal it seemed at the time. But mostly I'm too busy being a mum to them to dwell on it. Who cares? The real fun starts when the baby is out, is all I'm saying.

You have totally not got what I was saying about the dentist - why would you refuse a dentist and do your own teeth. Likewise, why would you refuse a midwife and give birth alone?

Now I come to think of it, the three sunniest and most laidback people I have ever known were all born by caesarian. I don't actually suppose there is a connection. There must be other factors involved.

"Just go to hospital and have a normal birth" - Chelles girl that just means, go to hospital and have whatever hand you are dealt by dear old Mother nature, with the midwives doctors, SCBU etc all on hand in case it's a bad one. Anything from straightforward to c section would be normal, in my book, just don't do it on your own at home with no help, in case it is a complicated one.
I just find the idea of freebirthing or unassisted birthing or whatever it is called plain terrifying, especially for your first when you - no offence OP - cannot possibly know what you are letting yourself in for.
I'll say it again, I find the intense scrutiny and fuss over the moment of childbirth completely bizarre and out of balance with the rest of life. Childbirth is not that big a deal, it's just something you have to do to get the baby out. If you come out wioth a live baby and in one piece yourself, then surely that is a good - or good enough - birth - by definition.

Some people do end up traumatised by birth experiences, Tricky. They can't help that.