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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

Original poster

Unassisted Birth Rights

255 replies

Nataliejayne85 · 27/02/2010 13:38

Hi!
I was wondering if anyone could direct me to what my rights are to have an unassisted birth in reality.
I met a nurse yesterday who very bluntly said it was illegal to which I informed her it wasn't!
I am not very far along and I am already being wound up by the medical profession, I don't mind being given the information but I feel that I am being bullied which is why I am relucent to have even midwife present (though may consider if funds allow an indepentant midwife but as I don't want to be checked, I don't want to be causing trouble for a midwife RE her legal responsibilties and requirements). Also having experienced bad medical practice in the past I know saying NO doesn't mean NO to everyone and I do not want to be worrying about people not listening to me.
Also can I have other people in the house at the time of the birth or will they be held responsible if something went wrong, even if I refused their help?
Also anyone know any good legal people to draw up paperwork re unassisted birth if applicable?

Thanks

OP posts:
Chellesgirl · 28/02/2010 10:41

I completely agree ATOOO ...AND I also think that she may need to consider either saving some real hard money to go private with the likes of BUPA...

Lulumaam · 28/02/2010 10:42

I agree totally with that aitch, re getting help and support for whatever experience has led the OP to this point

as a doula, i have declined to support women who are wanting to freebirth, i am not going to get caught up in a situation where i could be in trouble, there is a difference between a BBA and catching a baby whilst mw or ambulance is enroute, and being there when no mw or ambulance is en route

Chellesgirl · 28/02/2010 10:46

and not to mention that would be illegal lulu...I dont see how anyone could put the responsibilty on someone else when it comes to thier choice to freebirth. The ownus (sp?) is on the mother and the mother alone..but she has the choice right???

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 28/02/2010 10:46

lol at bupa. if the shit hits the fan everyone gets transferred to the nhs and are hugely grateful for it.

you don't have a clue about the quality of the OP's local nhs maternity hospital, chellesgirl. the OP sounds like she's spoiling for a fight with them, imo. for the record i got exemplary care in my local nhs hospital, each time, and just yesterday drove past there thinking how lucky i was to have given birth there under the care of such fine professionals.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 28/02/2010 10:50

my brother has had to deliver quite a few babies before getting to the hospital, he says it's a terrifying every time because he's also seen what can and does go wrong.
of course he conceals these fears, that's his job, but as a paramedic who is the first line support when a mother delivers unexpectedly, he doesn't report these glowing scenes of relaxed and fulfilled mothers, i must say. i know he's spoken of haemorrhage before, and getting there just in time.

Lulumaam · 28/02/2010 10:52

yes, i know, discussed that a bit further down i think.

the onus is on the mother should anythign go wrong, but on free birth threads, i always want to know what the partner /baby's fatehr thing.

how would he feel about it? what would he feel if things went wrong?

how would the relationship move forward of the unassisted birth ended with an injured ( or worse) baby?

i think that choosing to give birth alone, especially with no ante natal care is foolish.

IMs or NHS comm. midwives will attend a HB and be in another room if required, they dont have to touch or examine, giving birth in water also means it is a more hands off birth

there is a lot of m iddle ground and compromise to be had before unassisted birth is decided on

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 28/02/2010 10:59

re the internal exams, btw. i only had one, i don't remember it as being traumatic in the slightest. the midwife just took a peek and that was it. is that not normally what happens?

Lulumaam · 28/02/2010 11:02

some women find it really hard, and uncofmortable and if tehre is little break between contractions it can be difficult, also, a lot of MW seem to rpefer a woman to be lying on the bed for a VE, which can be v v uncomfy esp with a OP baby or if the woman has been enjoying been mobile ! women can also find it traumatic and invasive for all sorts of reasons. early on in labour, tehyu can be more painful and disheartening if progress is not good

Chellesgirl · 28/02/2010 11:03

Which I also discussed previously in the thread...and agree with you that having a midwife present at a birth is the best thing in the OP's case where she most likely knows nothing about labour and birth itself.

aitch I have been too transferred from private to NHS...though I remained with the same consultant (just used NHS resources)... surely just having one to one medical care with the same consultant and/midwife could be beneficial to her circumastances...yes when 'shit hits the fan' and shes transferred over the the NHS...she can the be thankful for what the NHS did and maybe change her perceptions...

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 28/02/2010 11:07

oh, righto then. my midwife was v clear in advance that she wouldn't be poking up there more than once if possible (and so it turned out) so i was fine with that.

technically, mine was a pretty medicalised birth, because of my own high bp and pre-eclampsia risk etc, but i remember it with such fondness. it was interesting in the nct class etc hearing all about mobility etc and thinking 'i can't even get into that because of my condition, i just want the baby safe,' it was freeing in its own way actually. that was my birth plan, just keep us both safe. and they all did. i'd do it again in a heartbeat.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 28/02/2010 11:12

sorry, chegirl, but no, during a medical emergency is not the time for her to be changing her perceptions of the nhs. she has a responsibility to address them now. but then 'just used NHS resources' really sets my teeth on edge, tbh, given that your consultant mimsying about with you in a nice office will have taken his attention away from patients who couldn't pay for his services.

Chellesgirl · 28/02/2010 11:15

of course you would, but thats your individual situation...mine was the total opposite...I was a low risk, healthy young female...baby was born just over 4 weeks early via natural delivery. Baby was not put on my chest, just left there to grunt, no suctioning of the airways then left in a cot without any attention other than that of DP taking 2 pictures. Pead checked her two hours later after two hours of being left alone while grunting. 12 hrs later she turned blue and had to go to NICU for oxygen...bunged up with mucous that could have been suctioned to help her breathe.
Midwife then had the cheek to record on computer that she had given her to me to hold straight away and that baby was suctioned and given agpar score of 9/9...bollox was it cause she could hardly breathe.

As for over 20 other reasons in which has made me lose all trust in NHS midwifery services...a lack of compassion throughout the whole system from chief exec to head midwife to midwives that had never met me before nor delivered dd.

I understand the OP wanting a freebirth, I dont understand WHY she wants to free birth having not experienced birth for herself yet.

Lulumaam · 28/02/2010 11:19

agree , aitch.
and i do love the word mimsying !

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 28/02/2010 11:20

aye, chellesgirl, so by all means advise the OP not to give birth in your local hospital, it sounds shite from the top down. there are great hospitals and less good ones, but to opt out of the NHS and medical care in its entirety is petulant and dangerous.

did you give birth in an nhs hosp btw, or private? or was it just your consultant you saw privately?

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 28/02/2010 11:23

and didn't you say your mother was a midwife, chellesgirl? it's definitely not your responsibility to double-check the midwife but as the child of a midwife yourself i'm surprised you weren't informed enough to ask for the baby to be placed with you for feeding etc. two hours seems a bonkersly long time to not attend to your baby. were you very ill afterwards?

trellism · 28/02/2010 11:24

I laboured at home for 5 days. Eventually I had to have an emcs. The baby's cord was too short to allow her to descend and progress labour.

We would both have died without medical help.

My point is that there was no way I could have known of the problem in advance.

If you want to give birth alone, that's your decision, but bear in mind that you are shouldering responsibility for two lives here.

Chellesgirl · 28/02/2010 11:30

I couldnt afford his services, and so he thought it was best for me, to get the best care to transfer with him to NHS. He had the right to do so, and I had the right to recieve it.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 28/02/2010 11:35

tbvh i would tend to avoid a consultant who does private work, they've kinda nailed their colours to the mast right there. i want believers.

funnily enough the one consultant i saw in the NHS (when i had my first ectopic pregnancy) who i thought was a grade a little shit left the NHS shortly after and went strictly private. he's making a ton of money now, good luck to him and his patients.

Chellesgirl · 28/02/2010 11:38

I had shit hospital antenatal care..so went private...transferred to dif hospital to have consultant care..I was having a planned HB...baby came early so went to hospital, was then thransferred to the horrid hospital that I had bad antenatal care at to give birth. The only reason the midwife explained to me why I could hold my baby was that I was having a 1st degree tear stitched (which took 40 mis after 5 failed attemps at getting anesthetic into me) Yes my mother was a midwife back in 92, and she gave me lots of info, but I also knew practically everything I needed to know anyway as did my own research..she just backed me. I had it written in my notes that I wanted skin to skin straight away...they took no note...didnt even read my notes properly. I was not ill I was perfectly capable of holding my baby...the midwife said i neither me or DP could hold her as the 'head midwife' had said no as she needed pead to look at her...I just didnt get the difference to her being stimulated on me and being cuddled up close to mommy, than being left on her own on a hard piece of plastic (cot).

I am not in anyway telling to OP to not go to her hospital and see what its like...I was giving my circs just like you did...yours were good, mine were bad.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 28/02/2010 11:44

nevertheless, i had a terrifying birth experience with dd2 (nothing to do with nhs though) and have worked through it with help of birth trauma counselling. i do feel that your attitude to childbirth and the nhs has been poisoned by your experience, did you get some help with that?

wrt birth plans, i thought the gist was that it was up to the partner to make sure they were being followed if the mother wasn't up to being assertive?

Babyonboardinthesticks · 28/02/2010 11:46

If you want non medicalised care you don't go to a private hospital in the uK though as they ave very interventionist, more so than the NHS. I had my twins with a private mid wife (www.birthcentre.com/what_we_do.htm) and that worked very well (babies 4 and 5; the first three were on the NHS but even so I came home under 6 hour transfers all 3 times - I like to be back in my home) - they even had permission to go into hsopital with me and deliver there (as it was twins).

The first twin came very quickly at home and his twin was born in hospital (my choice for us to go there) but no C section. Have you ever heard for two separate 7 hour labours in one day? Neither had I. No one told me it wouldn't just be one twin and then the other immediately. But still worked out fine and we planned for them to be born in hospital as twins are much more likely to die etc.

I was very happy with both births. I felt in charge. I was paying. I was deciding but I'm also pretty pragmatic and after 5 births you get a feel for how different they can be and how random it is. The aim is to have a live child and many natural births - look at many in Africa for example - babies and mothers die.

AitchTwoOhOneOh · 28/02/2010 11:49

hey xenia, i saw you on another thread and went to say hello but you'd gone. good to see you back.

Babyonboardinthesticks · 28/02/2010 11:52

(Thanks. I've been a bit busy with work. I was in Dubai on business (which is very rare for me) last week but because I'm a parent it was one night on a plane (economy), one in a hotel and 3rd night on a plane back overnight, whereas non parents would probably have had a day in the sun at each end - I didn't see sun once but may be that's saving me a skin cancer risk rather than losing me a vit D top up)

FlyingDuchess · 28/02/2010 11:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Chellesgirl · 28/02/2010 11:56

my green notes, not birth plan...never got to print that one off the comp let alone have someone else read it ...DP was in a trance...he too was wondering why I never got to hold her, but the shock of our first baby being born was the reason why he couldnt speak up. I dont blame him...the midwives should have gone by the rule book...I yes got some 'help' with that and complained to the NHS Chief exec for that trust. The answer was that they were 'sorry' but it had been recorded on the computer that I had been given skin to skin straight away.

My attitide to the NHS??? all i have told you about it MY birth experience...I dont have an attitude at all...for I think some hospitals are great (including the one my SIL gave birth at - which was actually nicknamed the 'slaughter house' ).

'up to being assertive' wtf??? you dont get tp be 'up to it' it just happens...I was aware of my surroundings completely, knew what my body was doing...the fact is as soon as my baby was out, she was left alone for 2 hrs struggling to breathe...When the midwife said she was grunting, and i wasnt able to hold her, a lack of hormones must have kicked in cause I never got that 'bonding feeling' we got scared that something was wrong, then I had G&A for the stitches which made the whole exprerience feel I wasnt even there.