For those of you who wrote negative things to Ema76 about her CS will you please read this.....

[Shooflypie]

because I am really, really shocked by some of the things that were said to her. I am repeating some of what I wrote on the original post on the basis that I think this issue is important.

I recently had an el cs for exactly the same reasons as Ema76. My mother had a 48 hour labour, forceps delivery, severe tearing which led to incontinence in later life (and further operations), was sectioned with severe PND, which lasted for over a year.

She said it was the worst thing that ever happened to her.

My experience was that my consultant took my fear of VB VERY seriously and his view was that a VB would put me at risk of PND and not bonding with my baby. (And btw I am perfectly robust in all respects other than this particular issue.)

I did have counselling, which was great and sorry but their goal is NOT to persuade you out of a CS as some posters assume.

I had an elcs and it was a fantastic experience. And the recovery was fine. And DS did NOT having breathing difficulties and he DID BF while I was still in the theatre.

Please take note of the following in particular:
A significant additional part of my anxiety and distress prior to the cs being offered, was that I was afraid of other women being judgemental of me.

I was so afraid of this I considered lying about the reasons for having a cs, or even trying for a VB (in the hope it would end in an em cs).

Due to a clued up consultant, a hospital psychologist, and a wonderfully supportive DP, I had the birth that was right for me and it has got our life as a family off to a flying start.

I am now very upfront about why I did have an el cs in the hope that it will be helpful to women like Ema.

I really don't understand why having a VB matters SO MUCH to some people that they think it is OK to behave with such viciousness to a pg woman? Or anyone.

Please will you reflect on the experience that I've outlined here and maybe try to be a bit more empathetic when someone tells you she wants a CS.

And bear in mind that a consultant and a pychologist took the opposite view to you.

i did not say that i "wanted a tight fanny and no saggy tits", however, who would want them?

dragonbutter

but ema... it's PREGNANCY that causes these changes in our bodies...

No, that is not THE definition. It is one definition. Dictionaries vary, you see.

Another:

bully[3,verb]

Main Entry:
3bully
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
bul·lied; bul·ly·ing
Date:
1693

transitive verb 1 : to treat abusively 2 : to affect by means of force or coercion intransitive verb : to use browbeating language or behavior : bluster

I think that fits rather neatly.

I was the person who posted that I thought her desire to have a CS was not motivated by a phobia, but rather the need to maintain control.

Two different things.

However I qualified that by saying that I did not know the whole history, simply what she had chosen to disclose on the thread.

I only posted that after the saggy fanny/tits postings, which in my professional opinion didn't seem like phobic symptoms.

Aslo, I felt her lack of willingness to genuinely explore her fear through counselling was strange. Most people with phobias recognise that their fears are irrational and really really want help in overcoming them. The OP did not want this.

But hey, I could be wrong

I did see the original thread, did post and do agree with this OP.

I also had El CS (No medical indication), was a wonderful, positive experience, no rpoblems with healing, with DS's breathing etc.,

It IS a choice, it was my first choice from the moment I found I was PG and backed up totoally by DH.

Ema is going to be fine. She's got what she wanted, and she's going to get the support she needs.

FWIW, I got flamed when I first mentioned El CS but I went through with it and, by the time I was due, not only was I totally happy with my choice, I'd given up caring if anyone said anything. ANd it WAS the most wonderful experience of my life.

GOod luck Ema

jimjamshaslefttheyurt - I never even bothered putting pen to paper for a "birth plan"
I know so many people who were distressed because their delivery didn't go to their plan.
I had the opinion of why bother to write one when I have no clue about what is going to happen to me, how painful it would be, how long it would take etc etc.

By DillyTanty
but ema... it's PREGNANCY that causes these changes in our bodies...

i never brought the topic up! when it was brought up about saggy bits i just commented that i might be lucky and follow my mum and gran who are lucky with their bodies after having a child. that is it! if i am not i am not!! but who doesn't try to look after themselves - putting on bio oil etc.. to help themselves. there is nothing wrong with that. i use body mosturiser regardless of pregnancy or not always have. is that wrong as well?

All my birth plan said was:

Adverse to nothing that helps

And I stuck to that plan and it worked for me

actually that's annoying of you, qually. i said it was A definition. and i don't think your definition works precisely because of the fact that it was mano a mano, one individual debating with another. the fact that the OP had so many people debating with her is because her thinking is wildly off-base if she assumes herself to be safer with a CS.

Ema, since you're here, and everyone's so het up, can I ask you a direct question?

Do you think you need to get counselling about your phobia?

Oooh... Ema - I SOOO recommend bio oil - I wasn't a big fan of moisturiser beforehand, but bio oil was lovely, and I don't have a single stretch mark...

By the sounds, you use it already, but wanted to share!

Midnightexpress - It's a case of 'been there, done that' check out the original thread.

YCBS, I was there on the original thread, but Ema never really responded to that part of the erm, debate, that's why I thought I'd ask her directly.

Bio oil schmio oil.

didn't you say that thing about legs akimbo, stirrups etc? ema, i'm sure you did.

you do seem to have been ignoring any negatives about C/S and soaking up negs about vaginal birth. that's worrying, i personally think, becasue if something does go wrong after your C/S then where will you be left?

my friend, for example, recently nearly died a number of times after an elective section (consultant was right behind her, she'd had a difficult time after her first vaginal birth). infection, haematoma, blah blah blah, a month in hospital, it was really very serious. she now regrets her choice to go for the section, feels that it has ruined her first month with her child and separated herself from her ds1.

none of us can see into the future, i wish you luck, but if they're offering you counselling it might be a good idea to do it in the run-up to the section.

I think there are some things you just can't consider. I have a massive phobia about birds, and as much as I recognise it's my problem and totally illogical, I still can't get over it.

I would freak completely if put in the same room as a butterfly. I KNOW it's my problem but it's just a huge massive issue to me.

If Ema feels that way about VB, then I can totally empathise. I don't think she should have to convince us of her worthiness of a CS. Her consultant agreed and that's that.

I think she deserves our total support. It is not easy to come on MN and admit to wanting a CS.

Ema, didn't both your Mum and grandmother thave VB, at that? So you were hardly pegging those things to avoiding vaginal labour, either, just hoping you'd benefit from your genes! (And I plan to have a VB with midwife-led care, and to breastfeed exclusively for at least 6 months, yet I too forlornly hope my pelvic floor tone will recover once all the relaxin leaves my system, and the giant bazookas I currently sport will deflate without drooping so low I'm polishing my shoes. I guess we should just book seats on the shallow train, hey.)

I'm so, so sorry you had to deal with this. Your vagina, your uterus, your business.

lol stretch marks are inherited... i never used anything and never got a single one. nor did my mother or grandmother. they're a bit like phobias in that respect...

agreed jimjams. I didn't have a birth plan - I was totally open to whatever was going to happen - my filosophy was that I'd never been there so how could I possibly know how it was going to be?

When I was on mat leave I watched all these baby programmes on discovery health, and so many of them would be saying that they wanted all natural birth, no drugs etc etc and within minutes of going into labour they were begging for the epidural. .

I actually think that counselling is vital if a phobia is that extreme. After all, there's always a chance that you could go into labour naturally, have a ve quick labour and be unable to have a cs. it does happen - in fact it's not that uncommon.

I think a birth plan is a good thing: I went through what I'd LIKE to happen with my consultant. With the proviso that what I wanted was a healthy baby.

NO WAY would I have gone against his wishes...

I had a CS and that is surgery, so it is up to the surgeon as to what's best... but still nice to know that he understands what I'd like.

yes i love bio oil, i cover myself in it everynight.

to the point of counselling from midnightexpress. my phobia does not affect any part of my life from day to day, i do not think about it in an average week, but obviously would when pregnant for the first time.
if it affected my daily, weekly, monthly, annually then i would def need help. but it doesn't, it might never affect me again. do people need counselling when they choose water birth for example because they really feel that water will be better for them and would panic at the thought of having to do something different?

it just seems to me that people wanted me to have counselling to decide to have a vb, as someone counselled of fear of snakes, would hold one at the end of it and be cured. i know my own mind, i am not stupid. i agree i have a phobia but it is dealt with by having a cs and why shouldn't it be.

it is not something i will come across everyday - like crossing a bridge, spiders, birds, balloons, dogs, cats, open spaces, high places.....etc and surely you could only do that counselling if you really felt it would cure you and you could do it and above all it was affecting you life and you personally wanted to sort it.

childbirth is not an everyday thing for an individual so doesn't affect the way i behave in life. tell me what counselling could possibly achieve when i am simply not prepared to change my mind over something i have genuinely researched.

oh yes, wannabe, my birth plan was 'do whatever it takes to keep me and dd safe'.

and OF COURSE it's ema's uterus, ema's choice etc. i've seen women on here talking about elective c/s plenty of times, the reason that thread went tits-up is that the OP wouldn't engage with the people who were trying to give her the benefit of their hard-won experience and that was suggestive of deep problems that might benefit from counselling.

personally i think counselling might help you to explore where these extreme feelings have come from, ema. what will happen to you if you go into early labour? will you freak out? you just don't have that level of control over your body, really you don't.