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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

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Original poster

For those of you who wrote negative things to Ema76 about her CS will you please read this.....

344 replies

Shooflypie · 14/08/2008 17:35

because I am really, really shocked by some of the things that were said to her. I am repeating some of what I wrote on the original post on the basis that I think this issue is important.

I recently had an el cs for exactly the same reasons as Ema76. My mother had a 48 hour labour, forceps delivery, severe tearing which led to incontinence in later life (and further operations), was sectioned with severe PND, which lasted for over a year.

She said it was the worst thing that ever happened to her.

My experience was that my consultant took my fear of VB VERY seriously and his view was that a VB would put me at risk of PND and not bonding with my baby. (And btw I am perfectly robust in all respects other than this particular issue.)

I did have counselling, which was great and sorry but their goal is NOT to persuade you out of a CS as some posters assume.

I had an elcs and it was a fantastic experience. And the recovery was fine. And DS did NOT having breathing difficulties and he DID BF while I was still in the theatre.

Please take note of the following in particular:
A significant additional part of my anxiety and distress prior to the cs being offered, was that I was afraid of other women being judgemental of me.

I was so afraid of this I considered lying about the reasons for having a cs, or even trying for a VB (in the hope it would end in an em cs).

Due to a clued up consultant, a hospital psychologist, and a wonderfully supportive DP, I had the birth that was right for me and it has got our life as a family off to a flying start.

I am now very upfront about why I did have an el cs in the hope that it will be helpful to women like Ema.

I really don't understand why having a VB matters SO MUCH to some people that they think it is OK to behave with such viciousness to a pg woman? Or anyone.

Please will you reflect on the experience that I've outlined here and maybe try to be a bit more empathetic when someone tells you she wants a CS.

And bear in mind that a consultant and a pychologist took the opposite view to you.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

wannaBe · 14/08/2008 22:04

and for me labour started that simply. I had no shows, nothing. I had a contraction which I thought was a bh contraction and then they came every 7 minutes from there for 30 minutes and increased rapidly until by 2:30 I was lying on the floor saying to dh "you'd better ring the hospital and tell them we're coming in.". And that after I'd spoken to the hospital at 1:30 and they'd said that as was first baby I would probably be able to labour at home until the morning. .

We're not talking about premature labour here. We're talking about going into labour naturally from about 38 weeks, which is very common even with first babies.

Qally · 14/08/2008 22:05

"actually that's annoying of you, qually. i said it was A definition. and i don't think your definition works precisely because of the fact that it was mano a mano, one individual debating with another. the fact that the OP had so many people debating with her is because her thinking is wildly off-base if she assumes herself to be safer with a CS."

But you used your definition's adjectival descriptors to disprove bullying in this case, when they are arguably incidental. I mean, you;d not tell a kid who was ganged up on that they couldn't be bullied unless it was an orchestrated attack by habitual attackers, would you? Mob action by definition tends to be spontaneous and rather anarchic - a consensus appears and the behaviour is peer validated. Bullying is clearly not always pre-planned, and I don't think the world is divided into Bullies and Normal People either - I think perfectly nice people can bully if a group mentality appears, mis-representative statements are made about the victim, and people become indignant on that basis. I can think of occasions I've joined in with this type of stuff when I really disliked someone's attitude or statements, and in the cold light of day I'm ashamed of it - disliking a person's demeanour, or their views, is not justification for a group behaving as they did on that thread.

It was also not one individual debating with another - people frequently commented approvingly at other's posts, several times to laugh at swipes made to Ema. That's pretty bullying, no? And a large group reinforcing one another's words through repetition and accusations that she wasn't listening to the other viewpoints expressed also indicated that this was a group action. It is simply disingenuous to make out that all posters acted in isolation, unaware of the words of the rest. I mean, it's plainly not so for the majority.

Again, if she'd posted to ask for views on the subject and then only listened to those she liked, I could see it a bit more (though really, don't we all listen to views we like when forming our own?) but she didn't. She wasn't even rude, just assertiv e on her right to have the birth she wanted - with the same words, almost, I've seen home-birthers here get applauded for. And some of the comments were really horrible, though again a couple of those making some of them have apologised, which was good to see - as I said, I don't think a vile group action requires participants to be vile people. I think it requires a group created atmosphere in which the bar on acceptable behaviour drops, and that's most likely when you have a group against one or two individuals. That's how I think most group bullying (as distinct from the deliberate actions of a habitual bully, who just wants a victim) operates.

As to her views on CS - she's read up on it, and she is more scared of the risks of a natural birth, which with her family history isn't surprising. My Mum had easy labours, so I'm relaxed about the idea - as relaxed as you can be about something so inherent unpredictable and very likely painful, anyway. What I just do not understand is why people feel they have a need or right to argue with her, when she has a consultant and midwives to educate and inform. It just doesn't seem appropriate to me, and it's oddly the case that people do that here on ECS more than anything else. WHy do people feel the need to butt in on it? It genuinely baffles me. It isn't as if they can begin to believe that a person subjected to that thread is going to take their words into account when she didn't ask for their views on it to begin with, and while obviously birthing is very close to people's hearts in a childbirth forum, I still don't see why people flip out about sections. Most birth is safe, some awful things happen, and all we can do is what we think is our best hope. As we have to live with our choices, I really think we need to be able to make them. And again- if the OP was able (as she was) to cite risks on both sides, in between freaking out about how horrible vaginal birth is, it sounds like something she's thought about a lot. It's also worth commenting that planned, elective CS are far safer than crash ones, and that while I personally would still prefer a natural birth, it's notable that some studies in Australia indicate that a planned CS is safer than the other methods aggregated - if you deduct crash CS outcomes from the vaginal, you skew your figures on non-ecs somewhat, because you can't guarantee that won't happen either. Really, the only guarantee in this game is not to fall pregnant.

Anyway, this whole comment really IS OT! But yeah, I think it was bullying by the middle, and MN version of Darwin's Law or not, that remains my view. It couldn't possibly be construed as likely to help her, so what was the point? And the key point remains that the opinions rejected, which was what angered people, were unsolicited. Isn't it everyone's prerogative to ignore unasked-for advice?

DillyTanty · 14/08/2008 22:05

mslucy... seriously... who the FUCK is bullying ema on here?

ema, nothing wrong with me to cause an early labour, dd was being scanned on a weekly basis cos of high bp (although it didn't cause any problems), no sign of readiness but my waters broke at 38 weeks and i went into labour. when would they think of doing your C/S, bang on term?

your refusal to countenance even thinking about what you might do in such circumstances kinda suggests that you really do need some help tbh. being a parent is so much more than labour, that's totally correct, but i'd worry that if things don't work out on this the way you want them to it might open other cans of worms for you...

expatinscotland · 14/08/2008 22:07

i had no shows, either.

only indication i ever had were contractions.

waters didn't even break until near delivery.

i also had weekly scans with dd2, but again for high bp and swelling.

Qally · 14/08/2008 22:07

Oops, sorry, that took so long to write the thread had long moved on! Time for bed.

mslucy · 14/08/2008 22:08

Ema76.
For every person who has a baby in a couple of hours, there's another (like myself) for whom it takes days for anything to happen.
I also agree with youcannotbeserious and think it would help to talk to the consultant so that you are aware of what the signs are and have a plan in place of how to proceed should you go into labour early.

Ema76 · 14/08/2008 22:08

i agree Qually. many thanks.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 14/08/2008 22:09

Scheduled C/S usually done at 38 weeks to avoid having to counter labour.

wannaBe · 14/08/2008 22:10

my waters didn't break either until ... um some time at the hospital - it's all a bit of a pethadine-induced yaze now

wannaBe · 14/08/2008 22:10

my waters didn't break either until ... um some time at the hospital - it's all a bit of a pethadine-induced yaze now

Ema76 · 14/08/2008 22:10

agree mslucy and i will. night night

youcannotbeserious · 14/08/2008 22:10

Oh, FFS...

EMa....You WANT a CS, your consultant agrees.

You understand that having a baby isn't ever straigh tforward but (most likely) you will have time to get to the hospital.

You have no need to deal with any more hassle.

As long as (in your heart of hearts - which I know you do) you feel you are doing what's right for you and your child, then don't worry a bean about what's been written here

Dragonbutter · 14/08/2008 22:10

Gosh Qally, I hope there was nothing crucial in that 5th paragraph, I didn't get that far.

Ema76 · 14/08/2008 22:11

yes cs done at 38 1/2 weeks for that reason
vendividivickiqv

VeniVidiVickiQV · 14/08/2008 22:13

Yes, I know - that's why I posted it

i know one or two folk who've had electives.

Ema76 · 14/08/2008 22:13

youcannotbeserious - i know hun and agree. i am so pleased with my decision and today. everyone has to do what they believe is right and goodluck to them whatever they decide.
def bed now. so tired!

wannaBe · 14/08/2008 22:14

is ema new here? search doesn't seem to be working for me.

DillyTanty · 14/08/2008 22:14

look, qally, i just disagree with you. in fact i think it's pretty pathetic when people cry bullying on a web forum, especially when they have been rude and abrasive (as i saw ema being) to women who were trying to give her the benefit of THEIR COMPLETELY VALID experience. it's okay for ema's (family's) experience to be valid but not anyone else's? bollocks.

and i've seen plenty of people on here present with what appear to be phobic relationships to vaginal birth, breastfeeding etc and their threads haven't gone tits-up like the other one did. completely down to ema's responses, imo.

and yes, if my kid told me that they'd gone onto a site and been rude and foolish on it ('la la la i'm not listening, i don't want my legs akimbo etc') and got a bad reaction from the audience... i'd say 'no darling, you weren't bullied, it sounds like you acted like a bit of a prat tbh'.

WideWebWitch · 14/08/2008 22:14

Ema76, you are going to have to give up the idea that you can be in control of everything, all the time. You can't, not with childbirth, pregnancy, having children or life.

I think it sounds like that's what you're struggling with.

Qally · 14/08/2008 22:15

Lol, dragonbutter, a really good way of saying that I've seen online - "tl;dr". Or "too long; didn't read." ;)

wannaBe · 14/08/2008 22:16

hun? hun?

DillyTanty · 14/08/2008 22:16

38 and a half weeks would evidently have been too late for me, wannabe and expat then.

tiggerlovestobounce · 14/08/2008 22:18

At my hospital it is 39 weeks for an elective section.
I thought that most hospitals were doing them at 39 now because of the risk of respiritory complications before then.

Dragonbutter · 14/08/2008 22:18

tl;dr
i like that

jojosmaman · 14/08/2008 22:19

I can't believe that some on here have commented on OP without even reading the thread themselves?! At not one point did OP want/ ask for information and advice on CS over VB, she simply wanted some practical advice as she had made her decision. She politley declined to discuss further on many occasions but was pushed and pushed and it eventually turned in to a fanjo issue which she herself didnt bring up! She explained that she knew the risks for both but for her, CS seems like the the best option for her considering her fear of giving birth. Some of the things said to her were unacceptable.

The more and more I read on here the more I can see that some posters just like arguing for the sake of arguing.

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