For those of you who wrote negative things to Ema76 about her CS will you please read this.....

[Shooflypie]

because I am really, really shocked by some of the things that were said to her. I am repeating some of what I wrote on the original post on the basis that I think this issue is important.

I recently had an el cs for exactly the same reasons as Ema76. My mother had a 48 hour labour, forceps delivery, severe tearing which led to incontinence in later life (and further operations), was sectioned with severe PND, which lasted for over a year.

She said it was the worst thing that ever happened to her.

My experience was that my consultant took my fear of VB VERY seriously and his view was that a VB would put me at risk of PND and not bonding with my baby. (And btw I am perfectly robust in all respects other than this particular issue.)

I did have counselling, which was great and sorry but their goal is NOT to persuade you out of a CS as some posters assume.

I had an elcs and it was a fantastic experience. And the recovery was fine. And DS did NOT having breathing difficulties and he DID BF while I was still in the theatre.

Please take note of the following in particular:
A significant additional part of my anxiety and distress prior to the cs being offered, was that I was afraid of other women being judgemental of me.

I was so afraid of this I considered lying about the reasons for having a cs, or even trying for a VB (in the hope it would end in an em cs).

Due to a clued up consultant, a hospital psychologist, and a wonderfully supportive DP, I had the birth that was right for me and it has got our life as a family off to a flying start.

I am now very upfront about why I did have an el cs in the hope that it will be helpful to women like Ema.

I really don't understand why having a VB matters SO MUCH to some people that they think it is OK to behave with such viciousness to a pg woman? Or anyone.

Please will you reflect on the experience that I've outlined here and maybe try to be a bit more empathetic when someone tells you she wants a CS.

And bear in mind that a consultant and a pychologist took the opposite view to you.

Ok I dont think its unkind but apologise if others felt it was.

What I guess I am trying to say is that most women have fears during pregnancy.

When I was overdue with dd I was reading all these issues about placentas dying and the risk of still birth increasing ereryday I was overdue.
I was terrified- prob a little too overanxious but to expect regular scans to check on the placenta would be be in my opinion wrong.

It would be fueling my anxiety.

Gosh I read so many horrific tales about women having suspected m/c and having to wait days for scans- that is horrendous and unfair.

The nhs has limited resources and should not be used to pander to peoples needs.

Ema should fight this phobia head on and try to beat it and this may sound harsh but toughen up a little.

CS are no easy ride I am sure and tbh sound more horrific than vaginal cb.

I just think she needs to be given all the facts and counselling before embarcing on any decision

What would happen if she could not afford to pay for the scans?

I suppose it brings up the debate of whether we should be able to pay for extra treatment or not doesnt it

Which is a whole debate I dont even want to get into

And I'm also at a loss as to why any of you actually care anyway - so getting extra scans isn't for you? Well that's just great, pat on the back and all that, but why do you actually care that a lady that you've never met is going to pay for some scans?
Why the need to be so bitchy about her maybe ending up with a VB in the end anyway, it is neither here nor there!

Of course she is being precious. Isnt that fairly normal for somone having thier first child?

I know I was

I knew so much about PG and birth, as if that knowledge would give me control.
But did I know anything at all about looking after babies? Not really.

For people with children I think it is easy to look back and think that actually the only important thing is the baby, but beforehand all the stuff like how you are going to give birth, when the baby will be born seems really important.

I tried to get my due date adjusted because it was one day different from what I thought it should be .
So please dont say it is unusual to be precious!

If she could not afford the scans Lilymolly then she's unlikely to have them, the NHS won't give her any I shouldn't think unless they actually can predict labour.

However, I find it odd that people with a massive fear of MCs can have reassurance scans and no one give a damn but when someone has a massive fear of a VB it is suddenly the end of the world!

I will concede though that I don't actually see how having scans from 30w can predict anything related to labour, but if the OP would like to spend her money in that way then who are we to judge? I often wonder why people buy the crap that they do in the supermarket, but I don't stop them in the isle and berate them for wasting their money on nonsense - it is, after all, their money!

I can't believe this thread.

I have been the soul of reasonableness on the other thread but have, finally, lost my rag.

Ok, to some of you on here and there: STOP extrapolating and twisting what the OP said to suit your own rather embittered outlooks.

START supporting other mothers in their birth choices rather than slagging people off because they didn't do what YOU did. I couldn't give a shit how people give birth - home birth, epidural in hospital, c section. Whatever! Whatever, within reason, they want, because that's going to lead AWAY from PND. A c section isn't a crime, ffs. And an instrumental VB in theatre costs almost as much - IF we are talking about cost alone. Choice in childbirth. CHOICE IN CHILDBIRTH.

Oh I was definately precious first time around
You get nowt second time around

I was not being bitchy though, in fact trying my hardest not to be. I was just trying to put across my point thats all.

I actually have huge sympathy with ema I really do, but I am the sort of person who would tackle this head on and that is why my opinion reflects a tough approach.

Yes she should have an choice, but she should be told be the consultants that these scans are unnesscery and could be potentially dangerous.

Presented with the facts so she can make an imformed decision

Agree tis not my business but still entitled for an opinion.

I agree it is a phobia if a Dr thought there was any risk at any point they would whip you in for a c-section no messing. In fact they are far more likely to err on the side of caution than take any chances. If you expect the tax payer to foot the bill for a psychological issue then you need to expect to be judged or pay for the c-section yourself. If it was me I would be looking to overcome the phobia first rather than give in to it, counselling is not the best treatment for phobias, I would try NLP or hypnotherapy. I have a real an intense fear that doctors will give me drugs I'm allergic too that can kill me as I suffer with allergies to many pharma drugs, I had to overcome this, I paid to have someone there to represent my interests and give me accupuncture.

C-Sections come with risks too, Dr's weigh up the risk of a natural birth with the risk of a c-section. If you immediately rule out a natural birth you may be putting yourself and your baby uneccessarily at risk.

here

I'm not against people having an opinion! I WANT to read lots of opinions. That's why I come on Mumsnet. I am not insecure enough to CONSTANTLY need my own views reinforced.

But when people express a view (fine) but THEN scream the other person is naive/selfish/arrogant/will be a crap Mum (just a tiny selection of some of the words bandied about here and on the other thread) for having a different view...it's unpleasant, and rank bad manners. I am not saying everyone falls into this category. But several do, and it's often the same old people.

RM the public pay for other phobia conditions and mental illnesses without asking pts tp pay for treatment

consider cost of a psychiatrist,sw, ot, CPN, Homevisit

Counselling and CBT are effective treatments for many pts with phobias

maternal mental heath and physical health are inextricably linked

Didnt say any of those things
Going now

I think it is perfectly reasonable to disagree that a c-section is the best course of action for a phobia. Likewise women like to have their wombs removed for no medical reason other than a phobia. I don't agree that the NHS should do operations for purely psychological reasons for no clinical reason.

Rebelmum, yes - I DO expect me, the taxpayer, to foot the bill for a psychological issue. Because that's a MEDICAL issue. Why, if something is a mental issue, do some people not classify it as a medical issue. Well actually, most health professionals do. Just as, if someone had a traumatic birth (of whatever kind - people need this to get over VBs AND CSs) and needed psychiatric treatment after, I wouldn't say, fuck off and pay for it yourself - it's a psychological issue.

If the NHS provide the treatment use it. I advocate personal responsibility I'm afraid and personally wouldn't hand over my mental health.

actually psychological criteria fulfills the elgibilty for CS.so psychological reasons are clinically legitimate

maternal mental health is inextricabily linked with physical health

Find a psychological solution for a psychological problem not a medical one.

Don't know what you mean (genuinely, not being funny) 'wouldn't hand over my mental health'??

You shouldn't be able to have any organ removed or any operation on the NHS because you have psychological problems. It doesn't make sense. Pay privately and have what ever body part you wish operated on.

A psychological solution for a psychological problem? Mmmmm, so no meds for people with mental problems, say? And treatment which just involves therapy, or stays in hospital, (which sometimes women with PND need) STILL costs the taxpayers money. Which seems to be your main beef

I would prefer to take personal responsibility for my own psychological issues, finding an appropriate counsellor with a track record who I trusted in the area I wanted. Than have somebody else decide what I ought to have and who I ought to see. But I take control of my life and health and don't see the NHS as panacea or Nanny who should take care of me.

you cannot hand over mental health!it is not a tangible appendage like a hand.Mental health is a state of being (not always under one's volition)

i hope you are fortunate enough to maintain good mental health

many people at some point will need to see a psychiatrist or more likely GP.GP's manange over 90% of mental health presenations in the community

They don't operate on mental health patients if it is uneccessary. How can you suggest that people should be operated on willy nilly without seeking to resolve issues first.

CoteDAzur, on the other thread, had the VB from hell and was FORCED to have a large episiotomy, which went on to cause a lot of problems. She was utterly traumatised as a result (there are lots of other details which are better coming from her) and wants a CS for the next child. And you'd make her pay for it herself, would you?

Well, you are entitled to your opinion of course....

A phobia is a fairly common problem we're talking about here not severe mental and psychiatric problems.