BIRTH TRAUMA SUPPORT THREAD.

[VictorianSqualor]

As has come up on a number of threads, many of us seem to have suffered from birth trauma.

It's all well and good knowing facts and figures, which of course, can ease our fears slightly, but with every birth having a chance of going severely wrong, adding that to birth trauma issues is going to convince us that we could be in whatever small percentage of people do suffer from our fears.

This thread is to help us come to terms with what happened during our previous births that left us with these emotional scars and to support each other through the journeys that we will go through in both our minds and possible future/current pregnancies.

There have been previous threads on which people have oupoured their experiences but acknowledgement and discussion is more than each of us telling our own experiences, so I ask that not only do we tell our own stories but we acknowledge other's and help them to discuss their past too.

Giving birth should be a calm, and beautiful thing, not one full of fear and panic.

On another forum someone posted about an unexpected sweep - the doctor hadn't even said the word, she was supposedly just having a look. Someone said they didn't see the problem, she would have loved to have had one and had a go because she felt it was like being raped.

I'm glad I made that post because it seems to have opened up the way for others to say it. I don't feel raped, but I do feel traumatised by the whole experience which was well handled by the hospital, I have nothing but praise for them. I was raped a few years ago and I got over it better and faster than I have everything that has gone with having children.

jabber, it's nice to see someone say that! I get so fed up of the cheer up type comments sometimes. Pull yourself together, it could be worse.

I know! I got so sick of people saying "Well, just be glad that you have a healthy child and not..." It made me feel guilty that I somehow wasn't happy that I had a healthy baby. Of course I was glad that he was OK - it still didn't mean that I was OK

Hear, hear jabberwocky.
I find i start to cry when i'm offered help cos i'm so grateful.

Tell me about it! Imagine being told that when you have one in the ground and one in an incubator

Yes, I was grateful that she was huge (4lb 2oz) and breathing for herself but I would rather she was still inside me, my PGP had got worse, had hideous stretchmarks... I'd swap all those for her asthma if I could.

Jabberwocky - I think you have hit the nail on the head! I felt as if I was being over-dramatic about how bad the birth had been for me because everyone kept saying 'oh well, the baby's fine and that's all that matters'

Don't really want to bore you with all the details but for me it was frightening how unwell I felt for weeks afterwards and having to breastfeed and look after a tiny baby on top of that was overwhelming. I lost a lot of blood and was anaemic, had a urine infection and antibiotics which upset dd within first fortnight and immediately after the birth I was much lighter and thinner that I had been before I was pregnant. I looked frail and ill for 2-3 months afterwards. It also meant that I got silly comments such as 'you must be so glad to have lost the baby weight so quickly' I would rather have been a bit chubby and felt human!!

It sounds pretty awful, Louise I lost a lot of blood with ds1 and had an infection as well. It was all quite frightening. I remember getting the doula to come in the bathroom at one point and asking her if it was normal to lose that much blood. I'll never forget the look on her face as she said "no". She was also a lay midwife so I knew things were getting serious.

I'm 8 weeks pregnant and yesterday I had my first appointment. Before I even said anything, doctor said "I expect you will ask for a cesarean". He was not the assholedoctor who followed me during last pregnancy & birth, but he knows what I went through afterwards.

We agreed that if baby is anywhere near 3.5 kgs, I will have a cesarean section. (DD was over 4 kgs)

I feel a little bit better, but not by much. I was blinking back tears the entire time I was in the hospital. So many horrible memories.

Awww, cote...I cried all during my first appt with ds2 as I had to recount to my new doctor what happened with ds1 and why I felt that I absolutely had to have an elective with ds2. She was wonderful and kind and we never discussed VBAC again.

Cote, have you had any counselling. The memories may perhaps get a bit stronger and you might benefit from talking it through with someone. I cried today when I heard the trailer for Classic Radio at 6 pm, cos i heard it when i was b/f Katie and felt so tired and dreadful.

Oh dear - you have all been through so much! Makes my pitiful wailings seem rather irrelevant but I'm going to get them down here anyway, if for no other reason than to try and remember what happened!

I'm 25, been married for a year, and had my son 4 weeks ago. I had a great pregnancy and nothing remotely interesting happened the whole time other than the usual grumbles. I was not, however, impressed by the level of care I received. The hospital clinics were overcrowded and we had to wait for 2 hours every time. We were then told that because the hospital was so busy, we had to attend a midwife clinic in another place that was a train journey from our home. The midwives there were very nice but I think I saw a different woman each appointment, knowing that none of them would actually be there when I gave birth (at the hospital).

At my last midwife appointment, the day before my due date, I was told that everything was fine but that baby had turned back-to-back. Midwife suggested some things to do to try and turn him but said that the head was beginning to engage. I went to 41 weeks, when I had to go back to the hospital for a scan to see what was going on. It was only then that we were told the the baby had turned breech. We were amazed because this was a seemingly new development and I would have thought that I might have felt a full-term baby flip upside down! Anyway, we discussed options with the consultant and decided that a c-section was safest (I was a section baby, as were most of my family, so I had no fear of it). This was a Friday and the section was arranged for the Monday. On Friday night, however, I went into labour.

9pm: Contractions were painful but not too bad at first and I wasn't even sure if I wasn't having BH at this point. Suddenly, I started to shake uncontrollably. This scared me because I had never heard of this happening in labour before. We called the hospital, who said to come in. I distinctly remember right before we got in the taxi, being laid out on our bed shaking so badly it was like I was having a seizure and my poor DH trying to sooth me but not really knowing what to do

Midnight: Got to hospital, where I had a show while in the waiting room. Contractions were now really painful but only every 5mins. Finally got seen and examined by a nice doctor and was 4cms. A pair of doctors came in (who I later knew to be surgeons) and basically tried to convince me to deliver naturally. I firmly but politely refused but I was appalled that they would try to get me to reverse my decision when I was already in pain!! Waters then broke

2am: We were basically left alone after that. I asked for G&A but it never came and we were left in a dark labour room to get on with it. The doctor came back and forth once in a while to tell us our progress in the c-section queue. Around this time, DH noticed that my contractions were getting worse and every 2mins now. I was rolling around on the bed, biting sheets and pillows, groaning and moaning in so much pain. It felt like someone was stamping on my spine.

4am: Finally got examined again and was now 7cms. I was now becoming very scared that all my plans were going to be changed and I would have to deliver naturally, which I was scared to do now. Finally, the G&A was switched on but when I took some, it made me so disoriented that I felt totally out of control and stopped using it as it made contractions feel worse in my head.

4:30am: Blessedly, we were finally taken to theatre and I had the baby. I think the worst moment of the whole thing was when they put Joe, wrapped up in a blanket, next to my head. I looked at him and felt absolutely nothing. I had expected to be overwhelmed with a rush of motherly love or something but I didn't feel anything towards him at all. Thankfully, he was whisked away and my DH went with him.

Saturday was ok - Joe mostly slept and I thought we had got BF going. The problems started that night. He just wouldn't stop feeding all night and if I put him down at all, he screamed. I felt so worried and stressed, all alone with him for the first time. I felt that something was not right with this but the midwives kept saying that he was latching on fine. Eventually, he passed out at 6am for 2hrs.

Sunday was more of the same - he fed non-stop for 6hrs and screamed if I tried to stop. It wasn't until 7pm that evening (I had had no sleep since Thurs night by this point) that a midwife finally helped me to hand-express and we saw that I was producing absolutely nothing. She said we needed to get him on some formula for the time being and she cup fed him. When I saw him feeding, I actually sat on my bed and cried.

We went home on Monday, continuing to FF and I tried to express but was getting nothing. In the meantime, my stitches were making it difficult to move around easily and I was walloped with the baby blues on Tuesday. I just spent the whole day crying. Thank God for DH, who was amazing and took charge of Joe for me.

By the end of the week, I had eventually got myself together again but I was so stressed and anxious about his feeding, I couldn't face returning to breast feeding again and we have remained on formula.

My main problem after all of this is that I feel as though I have had a baby but have had none of the experience of a mother, if that makes sense - no natural birth, no breast feeding. I feel that my bond with Joe has suffered as a result - I love my son to bits but sometimes I think that DH has a better bond with him than I do. We also found out that Joe has a large sized head and the community midwife remarked to me that she doesn't think I could have delivered him naturally anyway.

I have lost all faith in the system. I know we will have another baby in future as we don't want Joe to be an only child if possible but I am terrified of how it will go. The idea of having another c-section and all the problems with feeding that resulted from it make me want to consider a VBAC but I also feel as though natural childbirth is still a mystery to me and I'm terrified that my wound will tear, etc. And if our next child also has a large head, what then?

I'm sure all these feelings will fade with time but I just feel let down.

Sorry for waffling on - just had to get that out!!

Wow, Squitten please don't compare each story because it's a very personal thing and I think you have been through a terrible ordeal.

Reading your story I can see things that make me go "oh that's because of..." so I'm going to write down my thoughts. Ignore them if you want to and I hope they don't upset you as it's not my intention at all.

That rush you were expecting was blocked because of your experience. You were in a lot of pain and very scared and that stopped you from releasing the right birth hormones in the right place. When the baby is born and it's all over those hormones are all whirling around together and make you fall totally in love with your baby, you have oxytocin the love hormone and adrenalin the fight or flight hormone so your body tells you to stay and fall in love. There's nothing else like it!

Then when you go to breastfeed you have lots of oxytocin ready to deliver the milk to the baby so when your birth process is interrupted or you have a CS you don't have that build up and it can take longer to happen. You would have been releasing milk but a pump is not the best judge of how much milk you are making, especially if it's the first time, post section and so early on. In the early stages you make teaspoonfuls a time. It took me a very long time of four hourly pumping to even be able to supply one feed to Tink. Constant nursing is normal although doesn't happen for everyone and the MW's were wrong to undermine your confidence like that. It was him trying to boost your supply up manually. He would have been getting something, but not loads which is why he wanted to be on a lot.

The CMW has really puzzled me! It used to be thought that head size was important - my dad is a radiographer and he said he used to x-ray pregnant women all the time so they could see if the head was small enough to go through the pelvis. Two things stopped that, safety of x-rays in pregnancy and the fact it was a load of rubbish anyway! The soft spot on a baby's skull is to allow its head to shrink to fit through the pelvis and the reason for the awful PGP (aka SPD) problems is because there are five soft spots on the pelvis which allow the pelvis to grow and fit the baby's head through. I guess it's possible that the CMW was trying to make you feel better about having a CS but, even if it worked, she's now worried you about having another baby!

You were treated badly in the first place by doctors who allowed you to labour so long when you were due for a CS (wondering if they were so busy they were trying to get you to change your mind so shorten the queue ) and let down by the MW's who told you you had no milk and then the CMW who told you your baby's head was too big.

SquittenI haven't written on this thread before but firstly, sorry the birth was traumatic for you and I so related to the breast-feeding problems. I had a difficult birth two years ago as my my Ds was back to back - midwives didn't seem to know while I was in labour and thought at that point that I wasn't pushing effectively. It was unremitting pain for 10 hours (no breaks in contractions is what it felt like - I now hear that's not uncommon pain with back to backs). Eventually born assisted with deep episiotomy (some of which stitches came apart and got infected after 3 days) and ventouse. Lost loads of blood unbeknown to the docs and was dangerously anaemic - only found out because I was still in hospital and having breathing problems/chest pains so they tested me- so then transfusions. Baby was in SCBU for 8 days with his own breathing problems and then jaundice. I was taught how to express in the hospital and managed only tiny amounts -5-10mls, which was seen as not enough by the midwives in there (I realise now that it was normal amounts as newborn stomach capacity is tiny - drops will do!) and I think the enormous stress of the birth, anaemia and above all having my DS in SCBU made it so frightening and undermining as a new mother that the breastfeeding thing became impossible for me. I was so anxious that my baby wouldn't be hungry on top of all his birth/SCBU experiences I was easy to persuade into formula feeding. The other problem was that after nurses had fed him bottles for days he was not impressed with the breast (different sucking technique and speed of delivery) and would cry/scream with frustration. I managed to continue expressing small amounts for about two months for him before I dried up, but in retrospect I wasn't getting his 'demand' to produce milk because I was satisfying his hunger with bottles.

What I wish someone had told me - anyone at all! - was that if I had continued to try just putting him to the breast, skin on skin, not necessarily always specifically breast-feeding but just having that stimulus to produce milk, I may still have been able to get into breast-feeding even long after the SBCU experience. And it's shocking how little support there is in the NHS for actually helping women establish breast-feeding and in my experience health visitors are useless. La leche leauge (spelling wrong) are very good apparently. You can talk to them on the phone or arrange help.

I really hope you don't feel I'm trying to persuade you to breast feed or anti-formula. My Ds is formula fed and a healthy strapping lad now. There are even possibly advantages to FF (your DP can do it for a start!). But I just want to say if you want to breast-feed you don't have to think it's too late. I've read that even up to an incredible six months after giving birth it is possible to get milk flow going. Traumatic births can really effect breast-feeding initially but you want to do it you can get help, support and don't be afraid of still trying it or think you've failed.

Lovemymum - No, I didn't have any counselling. The French are not big in post-natal hand-holding. I got a pat in the back and "We will take care of you this time, don't worry"

squitten - It is entirely normal not to feel immediately connected to your baby, especially since you must have only just started feeling human again, 4 weeks after birth.

That big love/connection came about 2 months after DD's birth for me. First couple of weeks, I felt nothing. I think it was around the time she started to smile at me that our bond started.

As for big heads, I had a "pelvis scan" towards the end of DD's pregnancy, to determine if her head could pass through my pelvis. All was measured, and unfortunately, I was told she could pass and pushed towards a normal birth. Nobody cared that yes, she could pass through the bones, but the flesh would have to be cut massively

I found it very strange how in antenatal classes, everything was described as being very "natural" and that it would all just happen. I think 90 percent of all women have probably experienced some kind of problem with birth and particularly feeding.

I think midwives would do a lot better to be more upfront about the challenges that you are likely to face and be honest about how much it generally seems to suck for the first week or so. I know they say it will be "difficult" but that seems to be rather an understatement!

Squitten, what an awful experience I too had problems with bfing after having ds1 and ultimately wound up pumping exclusively until he was 13 months. It was awfully hard work and i sometimes wonder what propelled me to continue on. FF is fine if that is working for you. At 4 weeks you also may be able to re-establish bfing if you want to but don't beat yourself up about it if you don't. Doing what is easier and more comfortable for you right now is what's important. You've been through a really traumatic situation and you don't need any extra stress.

Apologies for intruding but I have been posting on a similar thread due to my own birth trauma from my DD's birth in April 2005 and am wanting to get a group of women together to try to prevent this kind of thing happening to other women.

I have read so many birth trauma stories that have really upset and angered me and moved me to write to the Birth Trauma Association to see if there was anything that could be done.

I am starting a new thread on this (with the full support of Mumsnet administrators) for anyone who would like to be involved in contacting MPs and lobbying the media on the subject of the appalling experiences so many women have undergone.

Well done Verso!

Have you started that thread yet?

Yes I have - it's here

I hope something does get done to decrease the number of appalling situations women find themselves in during and after childbirth. Interestingly enough, one of the key factors in my experience was that I opted to go for a more "European" birth (I am in the US) vs. the more typical American style.

With ds2 I actually said "I want a highly medical birth" and got it.

Squitten - I completely agree with you! I feel quite annoyed when I think back to my antenatal classes and how the mw just glossed over everyone's worries about giving birth and breastfeeding. In the case of my class it was breastfeeding - any question that was asked got the answer 'its best for baby' No one was disputing that but I think that being honest would help so much! Luckily I had very few problems with the mechanics of bf but I wish I had been given more info about the hormones, feelings, emotions and physical effects of it.

I would have felt a lot better about my experience in general if the mw had been honest and said "you will feel overwhelmed at first and the first few weeks may seem like hell but this is normal and it will get better!" Instead I felt as if I should be coping as it was normal and natural.

I wished someone had said about bfing "It will feel as if someone is trying to chew your nipple off"

The thing with all the natural comments we're given during pregnancy is they're only half right. Yes it's natural to deliver a baby and your body can cope with most of what's thrown at it, but we're not generally allowed to have it naturally. There's so much messing the mother around that it's no longer natural and it's not so easy. Think about it like having sex, it's the same hormones involved could you have sex with all the messing around and interference that happens during birth?

The same is true of breastfeeding. We don't have the births that facilitate it, which doesn't make it impossible but will make it harder and then we have lots of messing around. Also it's not totally natural in our culture, in other cultures women support each other, children grow up with it as part of their lives so when it comes to breastfeeding your own baby it's a lot easier because you have experience and educated support.