Men staying overnight on postnatal wards

[quesadillas]

Hi,

I'm getting myself really worked up about what seems to be an increasing trend for men to be able to stay overnight on postnatal wards. Last time I gave birth, men weren't allowed to stay. But I'm pretty sure that my hospital now allows it. This really bothers me. I found the postnatal ward absolute hell last time, begged to leave as early as possible , even though I knew I wasn't ready, and I ended up being re admitted. It was just a horrendous experience. This time I'm pregnant with twins, and the hospital have said that although I'd be a priority for a private room,there's absolutely no guarantee and there's probably more chance I'll be on the ward. I simply cannot imagine having visitors there 24 hours a day when I'm trying to get my head round having twins and feeding twins, and after a c-section. The woman in the neighbouring bed last time had her partner there at visiting hours and he was a nightmare. Loud, demanding of the staff (for him, not her) and thoroughly unpleasant sounding. I admit this may be affecting my views.

Did you have men on the ward 24 hours a day when you gave birth? How was it? Am I being ridiculous? And am I actually within my rights to refuse to spend a night in a room with members of the opposite sex, given that if I was having my tonsils out, it wouldn't be allowed?

Getting myself too worked up, need to get a grip!

I think you miss my point entirely -
postnatal ward - way too hot, cramped, noisy esp during visiting times, disinterested and rude staff (some wonderful, some awful).
At least when all the partners left there was some peace and quiet and you could try and get some sleep.
In my 4 bedded ward the partners (in the day) spoke loudly on their phones and were quite disruptive.
It is a strange man, cm away from you separated by only a thin curtain, maybe snoring (added to the other women snoring and babies crying).
I had to have very personal conversations with midwives about vaginal tearing next to men I did not know. Trying to get breastfeeding established needs quiet, good nutrition and trained help, men staying on wards is not going ot help this situation.

I think men staying on wards will make a dire situation even worse/

chibi

As many people have said, intimated, implied.. Their partners are there as an insurance against the neglect so many experience by HCP. that is the rationale. I agree with that, and I used the word 'protect' instead of the words 'compensate for'. I was writing at Godknowswhatoclock and my choice of language was not entirely specific.

As regards my stance, I concede to point that I, a special interest, should not have undue influence on the needs of the majority. Patients with babies who become ill immediately after birth, and who are to be held for observation and treatment, should always be placed in SCBU or into private rooms. In such rooms fathers can remain with their partner and child. There should be no need to leave unless to seek medical assistance.

I'll say it a third time if it was unclear the last two times. No issue in society should be influenced by those with 'special interests', in lieu of common sense and the needs of the majority.

MuffMuffTweetAndDave - Could be threat, but staff could be a fellow threat too. Or even your fellow patients. You don't have the stats to back up to say one is a bigger threat than another.

Also love the peddling the 'oh I think the majority / minority' support x point of you without actually pointing to any research! Fun!

Ironic that many of you are banging on about what you want - it's all about you darling, what you need - what's good for you, what makes you safe - without considering that makes OTHER women feel safe. All of this talk of 'minimising' - ever thought you are minimising the legitimate concerns of women who DO want their partner there to look after them and their own baby? Hypocrites!

Anyhow, the NHS should be working towards helping all women to have the post birth experience they require.

I just don't think you are in the majority pinkyplonks.

I haven't read the whole thread and for that I apologise. When I gave birth to DS1 men were not allowed on the post natal ward, even in private rooms. The midwives had no time to help you and I found it utterly isolating I had severe SPD and without my husband had to use guard rails just to hobble to the bathroom. Showering was plain humiliating with me kneeling in the shower trying to manage that. Add to that lifting and feeding my newborn and I've never been so glad to get home.

Also my husband was utterly dejected to have to say goodbye to his newborn after only an hour and a half (I gave birth in the early hours of the morning) and back then visiting wasn't allowed until 12!

They've changed the rules now however birth was DS2 was so smooth I went straight home.

Ellie, you were writing 'protects' shortly after 11 this morning, and denying it not long after

Perhaps you are in another time zone?

At any rate, I maintain that the issue of poor maternity care, whether postnatal or antenatal is best addressed by improving the standard of care, not by drafting in family members to fill a gap

12 hour visiting periods are more than enough for partners to assist mothers, bond with their babies etc.

chibi I think most people understood what I have written. I apologise if you do not. I do agree that maternity care needs to be improved, but it is not something either of us will see in our lifetime. The NHS is one huge unaccountable uneconomic bureaucracy, but that is a whole different topic.

Why is it not something either of us will see in our lifetime?

As a human institution, is it beyond the power of human intervention? Really?

This is a strange and defeatist position

I find it really pretty shocking that they're funding reclining chairs for men to sleep in women's wards.

It will take a post-partum woman (or probably several) to be raped and/or sexually assaulted before they realise that this liberalism puts women in very real danger. And that will happen, sadly.

Nope. An understanding of economics and the ability of the country to fund a welfare system. The maths does not work.

This is entirely a matter for a different thread, and we should not attempt to derail this thread by exploring NHS funding here. I'd be happy to contribute if you wish to start a thread elsewhere.

Sorry, that was a response to chibi.

Staff will have been CRB checked though plinkyplonk. That won't weed out everyone of course, all sex offenders have a clean CRB until their first conviction, but it will weed out more than letting strange men stay overnight will.

As for patients, please, please tell me you're not actually trying to suggest that women who have just given birth are going to pose the same physical threat as men who haven't? Because that would be a strong contender for the most ridiculous thing said in this thread. And really, you can't actually have a postnatal ward without patients and medical staff. Whatever threat you feel that a post section woman woozy from GA who can't even stand up unaided poses to you, there's literally no way round it. She's the patient. Whereas the potential threat from partners staying overnight can be entirely eliminated by not having them there.

Staff also won't be drunk, as a non-negligible number of visitors are...

Maybe the whole problem goes away if MWs are prosecutable for injuries to mother or baby sustained through neglect. Why should they be immune to prosecution personally?

Midwives arent immune to prosecution no and it has happened. I can think of a couple of cases in the national press overs be last few years where nurses have been charged with causing death by neglect. There was also a case with a Dr and two nurses following a termination recently and the mother died after the proceedure, they've been charged. I believe the police are now looking again at the Morcombe Bay debacle and some of the midwives there may face criminal charges.

What you have to be careful though is that an individual isn't used as a scapegoat for a huge systems failure. One of the midwives at Morcombe bay said she didn't recognise that one of the baby's who died was sceptic as she didn't know that a low temp was indicative of sepsis. Surely that highlights a major issue with training at that hospital?

There's also the fairly common scenarios nationwide of midwives/nurses been short staffed on a ward. If there's only two members of staff instead of four on an antenatal ward due to sickness and they've gt double the amount of patients and miss a blood pressure or two....if that patient goes on to have an abruption or eclamptic fit due to high blood pressure should the individual person be prosecuted? I don't think so.

After all these strange men were good enough in the maternity wards (where they are allowed to stay overnight), in the labour wards but as soon as a woman has given birth these fathers now become strange men who are a threat to vulnerable women?! seriously?!

No, not necessarily - but what they are going to be is a bloody nuisance to the other women. I don't care how wonderful your partner is, I do not want him staying overnight in a hospital ward for women. Are you going to stay overnight with him if he has an operation?

manslaughter charges

MuffMuffTweetAndDave Couldn't that equally been an argument for not having men on the wards at all - after all, they could turn from supportive birth partners into rapists during the day too? And couldn't that also be used as an argument as to why women should have people their trust i.e. their trusted birth partners with them at all times to protect them?

Yes, let's play the battle of ridiculousness in a thread full of self centred women :D

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Couldn't that happen during the day time too?

AllThePrettySeahorses - if you don't want that, fine. But if women do want their birth partners there (either men or women) should have the opportunity to do that if that makes them feel supported, safer, to take care of the baby etc. How that should be provided should be the real argument.

Seems that there are a lot of women here to want to deny women that choice.

No plinkyplonks it couldn't, because we are more vulnerable when we're asleep. Also there are fewer staff on the wards at night. So no, having men around during the day is not the same as having them around overnight too.

And no, it couldn't be used as an argument for why women should have trusted birth partners with them at all times. For a number of reasons. The first is the effect it will undoubtedly have on some other women. The second is the fact that some women's birth partners are, far from protective, actually abusers. The poster sockreturningpixie has posted an account of how partners being allowed to stay overnight has kyboshed quite a few women's leaving plans, I try to dig it up for you. And the third is that not all women have got anyone to look after them overnight. Neither you nor any of the other posters arguing for men to be present to look after their partners have explained how you plan to mitigate the effects on women who don't have anyone to stay over and look after them. Farfrom being self-centred, I don't remotely fall into that category: my family live locally and would have my other children, and my DH could stay in with me as long as necessary. It's women who don't have that who'd suffer. I presume we'd all agree that strange men being present 24/7 exposes the other patients to a greater risk simply because of the greater opportunity? So these women are going to be at greater risk than they are currently. Good luck justifying that one.

Actually it might have been Ineedasockamnesty. She works in DV anyway.

Wonder how it would be before we get the first case of a man in the bed and a woman in the reclining chair post birth

If posters who have regaled us with their experiences on this issue before are to be believed, it's already happened!

Any provision could be made for men to stay overnight in postnatal wards without affecting the actual patients who need to be there will have a detrimental affect on already stretched maternity funding and that is ridiculous.

If there are to be resources (and imo there shouldn't), then there should be a hefty charge for private rooms to cover all costs incurred - extra cleaning, water, furniture, food, bleach, staff time to do this, everything, because it's a hospital and not, y'know, a hotel, and if the room is needed for a patient under any circumstances, then the partner will have to go home.

But they shouldn't be there overnight in the first place. No one should be there overnight except patients and staff, as in every other hospital department.

That happened to me farfalla
To be fair I was feeding in the chair and said to DH to have a quick nap. We got a massive bollocking!
Different in my case as it was my suggestion but I shouldn't have done it. But there was one woman in whose DP was demanding she fetch him water etc because he was tired and shouting and swearing because the baby had pooed etc.