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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

This article has me fuming....thoughts?

342 replies

PrincessZ · 22/08/2011 22:06

I just read this article and I am so shocked at how they can categorically ban cesarean sections!
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2028443/Hospitals-ban-pregnant-women-having-c-sections-cost-cutting-move.html?ITO=google_news_rss_feed

I'm pregnant and I was going to ask for a cesarean. Reading this article has made me lose all hope.

OP posts:
northernruth · 23/08/2011 22:51

I'm not bitter - I thought I was explaining that I had an highly interventionist birth and yet it was OK, the outcome was good, healthy mother healthy child, short recovery time etc etc.

I wonder if you have ever had abdominal surgery - I had an appendix removed at the age of 11 so was VERY keen to avoid any further surgery in that area.

I also said that if a section was merited it should be granted. You seem unduly worried about the risks of a 4th degree tear and incontinence, both of which are minor risks. I know you say you've done your research, but what about the risks of infection in the wound?

I would agree that if you pay you can have what you want - your OP tho was about how outraged you were that you couldn't have a section on the NHS just because you wanted one.

northernruth · 23/08/2011 22:53

Seriously, and this is also not meant as an insult, your concerns about VB are so disproportionate to the reality that I do think you would qualify as a psychological case. Discuss your fears in detail with a GP and you may be surprised.

Primafacie · 23/08/2011 22:53

Isn't it funny that the various OPs on this topic always use the same rhetorical questions and the same examples of fourth degree tears and symphisiotomy? Grin

Princess, you are right, the whole world is against you. We are just a bunch of unsympathetic bitches, all jealous of your amazing fanjo.

tethersend · 23/08/2011 22:55

Actually, my fanjo is pretty amazing.

Primafacie · 23/08/2011 22:56

Ah, the colorectal fistula is out. Bingo!

northernruth · 23/08/2011 22:59

I actually think my fanjo is in better shape now (after the physiotherapy for my life threatening mild incontinence) than it has been for years Wink

northernruth · 23/08/2011 23:00

Isn't a colorectal fistula some kind of niche sexual practice?

kangers · 23/08/2011 23:00

I know you are not asking for opinions but botched episiotomies, incontinence and fistulas are not hugely common. And they are very much related to babies size which can be monitored pretty well (in conjunction with your pelvic size). i know of ONE person with the explosive version of VB due to a very large baby and not being able to not push (leading to destruction of perineum).
I was able to make it clear I did not want an episiotomy- and this is usually only given if doing ventousse or forceps. If you can afford private care then I would suggest if you are effectively monitored then aa VB is more likely to be efficient and right for you under those circumstances.
Just a suggestion.
35 is young but not as young as I thought.
Why only 1 child??

PelvicFloorOfSteel · 23/08/2011 23:02

Princess you seem to be totally barking mad, I don't think you need to spend as much time worrying about VB/CS issues now, you need to sort yourself out enough to meet a man before you start thinking about pregnancy and birth. Trolling on internet forums about symphiwhatsits isn't going to help.

HTH Smile

kangers · 23/08/2011 23:02

thethersend and northernruth you crack me up. I need to do some more physio on my fanny quite clearly- any tips...

Primafacie · 23/08/2011 23:03

Northernruth Grin

tethersend · 23/08/2011 23:03

I must reiterate, I had one ELCS and, should I get pg again, will insist on having another. Twas a very good experience for me.

I just liked the debate we were having and think it's a shame it was brought back to VB/CS wars.

The horror... The horror...

AitchTwoOh · 23/08/2011 23:03

re the 'it is major surgery' line. it doesn't feel like it, or didn't to me. i didn't labour, dd2 was wheeched out because she was in trouble. i deffo preferred dd1's vb to teh cs, because the cs was scary and felt like i was being yanked and punched all over the place but afterwards i was physically heaps better than i was after labouring for only 8 hours with dd1. i've spoken to a few people about this, those of us who have had both were surprised by how easy the recovery from cs was.

kangers · 23/08/2011 23:04

no pun intended

PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 23:05

what about the colorectal fistula?
A poster here mentioned it on the second page I think, and I took her example.

Of course incontinence is not life threatening!! I never said it was. You don't have to be sarcy about it. But it can affect your life in a big way.

As for risking an infection: it happens to 3% of women who have PLANNED cesareans.(I'm not talking about emergency)
But 4th degree tears? they happen to 25% of first time mothers.
Assisted births happen to 18%.
45% of women who have a VB get either mild or severe incontinence.

I'll go with the cesarean, thanks very much.

BTW, you are all quite judgemental aren't you? You want VBs? Go with them.
Unlike me you don't need millions or 'permission' to get the mode of delivery you want.

OP posts:
northernruth · 23/08/2011 23:06

But the original point was, should women be able to have one on demand for no medical reason? and IMO the answer is no. I do know lots of women who've had sections who would have one again, and vice versa

PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 23:07

Kangers,
why is it so shocking to you that I want one child?
Surely, its my business.

OP posts:
AitchTwoOh · 23/08/2011 23:07

i totally support your right to have your first and only baby by elective cs if you are paying for it, princess.

PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 23:08

Thanks AitchTwoOh:)

OP posts:
kangers · 23/08/2011 23:08

H2O very interesting to be able to compare. The one thing that makes me laugh about CS is that they often claim it has ruined their bellies and they have a 'shelf'. I have a ruined belly and a shelf but no CS- its just the three pregnancies that ruined it. I am sure all of us can improve it by exercise.

herethereandeverywhere · 23/08/2011 23:10

Primafacie regardless of the manner of the OP post, I really do not think it appropriate to mock the risks of childbirth, or belittle them, whether they are cited as a reason to fear a VB or otherwise.

Colorectal fistula is awful, as is incontinence (I did not find living with incontinence by avoiding the situations that made me piss/poo myself a way to make sure I "led a normal life", it was humiliating and debilitating and came as an horrendous shock - the NCT classes didn't really have a "what can go wrong" section.) I have a friend who is suffering terribly after a prolapse from delivering a 6lb1oz baby. Oh and if only my episiotomy was 1cm long! Try 5cm, stitches came undone and I suffered sitting on an open wound for 2 months. Excruciating. My NCT friends who had CS were giving me their pain killers because they recovered so much quicker!

The risks of ELCS as major abdominal surgery are actually very small (compared to EMCS and generally).

PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 23:10

And btw Kangers, You know of ONE person right?

Well, whose going to give me in writing that that ONE person isn't going to be me?
It very well could be. I'm not interested in that risk.

OP posts:
PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 23:11

herethereandeverywhere

I'm so sorry to hear about your experince:(
Thats exactly the kind of thing I wish to avoid.

OP posts:
Flossish · 23/08/2011 23:13

I wonder if people are suspecting you of being a troll because you claim to have researched this so thoroughly and yet seem blinded to all the complications of abdominal surgery - you only discuss the complications of vaginal delivery.

A few points I'd like to raise - in a normal vaginal delivery, the baby is signalling they are ready to be born. Usually this is because their lungs are mature and they are due. I rather feel this is important. Likewise your body is better geared up towards breast feeding.

You may be keen to retain good pelvic floor control but again, this is due to pregnancy as opposed to just the birth itself. Otherwise my pelvic floor needs to have a strong word with itself right now. By undergoing a c section you are at long term risk of hernias and adhesions - which can require pesky hospital stays and annoying surgeons having to open up your abdomen. My friend had an emergency cs 12 weeks ago. Her wound is still infected, still causing her pain and still impacting on her life. But you'll be back at work then?

The most upsetting thing I've found you to say has been that you have three months mat leave to recover. Really, it should be that you have that precious time to bond with your baby. The better you are physically following birth the better you can bond and enjoy the new life you have created.

You say you have a history of big babies. I can tell you having already delivered a 7lber and a 10lber I healed a lot quicker with my heavier baby and was up and about with much more ease. I tore both times, btw. They usually try to avoid episiotomies if they can as natural tears heal better.

Ultimately, as you say, you're prepared to pay for it. But to feel the NHS owes you a c section is wrong imo - budgets are there and cancer treatments don't always get approved. It's not just the cost of the initial surgery to consider, also follow up care, GP care for wound infections (friend is currently on visit number 4) and possible multiple hospital stays for complications, which can be recurrent and difficult to treat. Your abdominal wall is precious. Much, much better to keep it intact ime.

As a last post, I'll c and p one snippet of info I found on wikipedia I'd be surprised if you haven't come across in all your research, which for most mothers would cause some uncertainty over a choice to have a non indicated cs.
'Higher infant mortality risk: in c-sections which are performed with no indicated risk (singleton at full term in a head-down position), the risk of death in the first 28 days of life has been cited as 1.77 per 1,000 live births among women who had c-sections, compared to 0.62 per 1,000 for women who delivered vaginally'

Good luck with what you choose and what you can arrange.

AitchTwoOh · 23/08/2011 23:14

oh no, it's a different thing post-cs. it's like someone took a drawstring at the fattest part of your tummy and tightened it, making it much more solid than an ordinary overhang. it's the reason why the celebs have a tummy tuck at the same time, to prevent that effect.

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