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Childbirth

Share experiences and get support around labour, birth and recovery.

This article has me fuming....thoughts?

342 replies

PrincessZ · 22/08/2011 22:06

I just read this article and I am so shocked at how they can categorically ban cesarean sections!
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2028443/Hospitals-ban-pregnant-women-having-c-sections-cost-cutting-move.html?ITO=google_news_rss_feed

I'm pregnant and I was going to ask for a cesarean. Reading this article has made me lose all hope.

OP posts:
MetalSian · 23/08/2011 13:42

And if messing up your 'fanjo' is more important then I think you being a bit silly.

posterofawolef · 23/08/2011 13:42

PrincessZ I have reported your posts as I'm pretty sure you have posted similar things here before and on other forums.

I apologise if I'm wrong but the similarities are astounding.

Once again I beg you to get professional help.

FingandJeffing · 23/08/2011 13:43

Having had 2 children by VB I am aware of the risks of an epidural but I still maintain that the women who opt for them during labour as opposed to as set out in their birth plan are more likely to do so because labour is not progressing easily. The fact that the labour is not progressing easily is the greater factor in the instrumental delivery.

Most modern birth text books state that birth is a physiological process so hard pushing as such should not be required (whilst my own experience with a back to back baby would differ) that is the theory.

Cheria · 23/08/2011 13:46

MetalSian because vaginal birth is not the be all and end all of having a child. Some people would prefer to avoid that part. Like some peopel even prefer to avoid the whole having sex thing to get there and go for artificial insemination. Do they have any less right to wanting a child Hmm

And messing up yuor fanjo can mean a lot to some women. If my DD had been born naturally they predicted she would have given me massive tears. Babies in my DH family have big heads. If I have another I will also have a CS (elective this time). I don't want my fanjo extremely messed up. We're not talking a stitch or two here.

Opinions such as yours really annoy me actually.

cardamomginger · 23/08/2011 13:56

So sorry Celia - that's awful for you Sad Angry Sad Angry. Yup - that's what she said, I am afraid. But she fights for each one and won't back down. And I think she gets one for each woman where it is indicated. Sounds like you have excellent reasons to want one both medically and psychologically. Have you raised this with your MW/consultant? Good luck.

As regards my own case I'm fuming because the gynaes putting me back together have told me that hypermobility is a known risk for doing poorly with vaginal birth and sustaining birth injuries. One Prof I saw told me that if she had seen my antenatally, given my hypermobility, fact that this was my first child and my relatively advanced age (39 at time of birth) she would have strongly recommended that I have an ELCS. How I regret not knowing then what I know now!

MetalSian · 23/08/2011 14:07

As yours annoy me Cheria, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion =].
I think if you want a child that child should be put first, so what is better for them not someone just not feeling like getting a tear down below.

I am not against CS as I said above, if you have a good reason then of course you should.
As it sounds you have a perfectly good reason, but I don't see why people who have no reason should have a CS on the NHS.
By all means if you have the money to waste go private, but without a good reason I don't think it should be an option.

gailforce1 · 23/08/2011 14:25

I dont know if this is the same article but in yesterdays DM p25 (sorry cannot link) is an article headed "Hard up hospitals tell women they cant choose a cs"

"They have launched the crackdown on women who are too posh to push" - I did not think that cs had ever been handed out freely and easily by the NHS and women for whom the operation was a "lifestyle" choice paid privately.

It goes on to say that health experts argue that cs mothers would find it harder to bond with their baby but surely any mother that has suffered a traumatic birth whether cs or vb may find this an issue?

The article then states that mothers groups argue that women opt for planned cs to avoid the trauma of of an emergency cs and to reduce risks of post natal conditions such as incontinence. Vicky Cook a consultant ob and gynae is quoted as as saying that she had two elective cs as she had seen so many patients forced to have emergency cs. Her specialist area is urinary incontinence and she says "there can be no doubt that childbirth does cause long-term problems in some women".

Dr Paul Armstrong is quoted as saying that "just as a woman has a right to choose home birth or other non interventionist techniques so she should have a right to choose a cs".

The over riding issue seems to be cost but no-one seems to factor in the cost of repair ops for women who are injured by vb or the psychological problems that also require treatment. Also the cost of ops for incontinence caused by vb.

There has been discussion before about the obsession the WHO has with cs rates and no one seems to be able to find out their rational behind it. They do not seem to offer guidelines say for tears that only, for example, 1% of women should suffer from these or only 2% of women should have forceps used etc.

The Sunday Times also had this item on the front page just on case anyone thinks that this just a DM story.

willow3006 · 23/08/2011 14:29

I dislike the fact that anyone who asks any question on these boards related to wanting a cs are immediately 'reported' because they MUST be the same person as someone else who asked a similar question! I think there must be so many people who want to ask questions about cs's on here who don't dare because of the people that seem to patrol the boards looking for any hint of someoen wanting one and then reporting them!

RealityVonCrapp · 23/08/2011 14:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 14:33

Why did you report me? Is wanting a c section so offensive?!

Btw, having a CS is "giving birth". To the poster who said "why would you have a baby you didn't want to give birth to?"

Pfft.

OP posts:
PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 14:34

gailforce1: great post:) It really does say it all.

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willow3006 · 23/08/2011 14:48

RealityVonCrapp - what do you mean by you again? As you can see by searching my posts, I've only been on here for about a month and am a genuine poster so am unsure why you felt the need to write 'you again'. I read an article actually recently about how bullies seem to rule the boards on Mumsnet and didn't think it could possibly be true but am starting to think it might be.

Maybe as I've only just started reading these forums I'm naive but really I just think if you don't like the topic e.g. cs's then don't read them and don't post on them so that others with good advice or opinions (many on this thread actually) can contribute without fear of reporting!

cardamomginger · 23/08/2011 14:55

Yes, gailforce but you are forgetting that the costs of repair, etc comes out of someone else's budget [cynical face]. My total to date, excluding GP appointments and prescription is 10 grand. And I haven't had any of my operations yet. Admittedly I have had treatment and investigations privately, but even if the mark up is 300%, this is still going to be a stonking bill.
Sorry OP for going off on a tangent. Will doubtless get flamed, but a flaming is nothing compared to what I'm going through Grin. If you were my friend I would say to think very carefully before going for a VB. We're all told that it's natural and we are designed to do it and everyone else manages OK and the risks of all these terrible things happening are very very low. But when you do sustain injuries it can be horrific, deeply traumatic, and result in life-long health problems. If you were my friend, I'd advise you to go and see privately a consultant gynae and ask him/her if there was anything about you that meant that your risk of doing poorly with vaginal birth was greater than might be expected. And I'm afraid I think a key part about this is to go privately, where the consultant will be able to speak much more freely without feeling constrained by policies and budgets. It wasn't until I went privately that I found out that my injuries were more or less bound to happen to me.

Longer recovery time, major abdominal surgery, etc, etc, etc. I wish to GOD all I had had to cope with was a C-section scar and a 6-8 week recovery period.

gailforce1 · 23/08/2011 15:04

"Card2 please forgive my ignorance but what is hypermobility and how did it effect your labour?

PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 15:04

Thanks cardomomginger:)
I appreciate the advice! I don't want a VB myself. IMO, in case something goes wrong it can be too horrific. Incontinence and tears can affect daily life, work and married life.
An abdominal surgery may have a longer recovery, but at least it doesn't impact other aspects. I have a 3 month maternity leave anyway, I don't care about the longer recovery.

OP posts:
PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 15:05

How do I find a private consultant in manchester?

OP posts:
sheeplikessleep · 23/08/2011 15:06

The irony of your posting name has made my day.

ScatterChasse · 23/08/2011 15:08

There are definitely private hospital around Manchester, The Alexandra and The Regency to name two.

cardamomginger · 23/08/2011 15:13

Hypermobility is basically when your joints bend or rotate more than is usual. It can also go along with a "too strong" and "too rigid" pelvic floor. When you try for VB the pelvic floor goes into spasm and doesn't want to let the baby out. If this happens you are at risk of bad tears, including of the deep layers of the pelvic floor, prolapse, and damage to the pelvic bones. Not nice.

cardamomginger · 23/08/2011 15:16

It's the too strong pelvic floor that stuffs it up, not the overly flexible joints per se.

MugglesandLuna · 23/08/2011 15:17

Is this for real?

PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 15:17

Do the Alexandra and Regency provide maternity services? They sound like hotels!!

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picnicbasketcase · 23/08/2011 15:18

Is there anything to indicate that you have a higher risk than others of 'fanjo damage' though PrincessZ? I understand other posters choosing CS because they already knew they were having large babies or family history of babies with large heads or existing damge that could be made worse etc, but do you have any actual reason to think you will be damaged by a VB, or are you just scared of it happening and don't want to risk it?

FWIW, I felt the same before I had my first DC, but it was made very clear to me that since I had no real reason for a CS (paying wasn't an option - too poor), the NHS wouldn't give me one and I had to get used to the idea of VB. I then had another child and the thought of CS didn't even cross my mind, so I guess it couldn't have been that bad after all.

nunnie · 23/08/2011 15:24

I think there is one in Cheshire but not sure about Manchester sorry. Cheshire is a bit nearer than London for you though.

You will have to google yourself though because I can't remember where i found it and I am ordering labour bag items at the moment.

PrincessZ · 23/08/2011 15:24

Good for you picnicbasketcase:)

I will make sure I can pay. Thats what credit cards are for and I think this is important enough.

BTW, I do have a family history of large babies. However, even women without it can end up having very traumatic births and ruining their pelvic floor. Not a risk I am willing to take.

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