Your child freedom formula / child anxiety programmes - thread 2

[Psuedoshoes]

Carrying on the discussion of YCFF and other similar programmes...

Link to previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/child_adolescent_mental_health/4239684-your-child-freedom-formula-has-anyone-tried-it?msgid=108493516#108493516

Some of you mums may prefer to spend your money on designer clothes, bags and shoes.....some of you may not work at all... indeed a suspect this is the case for quite a few of you as you seem to have so much time on your hands to rally round and try to ruin a perfectly good business.

I'm sure plenty of you trot of to slimming world or weight watchers each week, paying your money to hop on those scales and get advise from... not a qualified nutritionist....but someone who's been through the programme and come out the otherside (don't mind giving them the commission of the books and snacks you buy too on top of it...how dare they rip you off like that?)

go and get a job cause seriously you have too much time on your hands to be sticking your noses into something you know nothing about.... there's lots of shortages currently.... HGV driver....NHS worker...hospitality industry.....honestly find something else to fill your time!

I’m not an HGV driver, true. I am gainfully employed though, so eh, you’re right, I don’t need to care about this “programme” for helping vulnerable, anxious teenagers and their desperate families.

I don’t go to Slimming World but if I did it would be because the service is up front - they don’t pretend there’s a magic secret formula to success you can only discover if you show up and pay a huge fee up front. In fact, they offer you all the information you need for free - they’re pretty clear that the purpose of meetings is for mutual support. Training is nationwide and I’d bet they have shit-hot safeguarding procedures.

I have no skin in this game other than concern at this company’s tactics. I’m on record in the earlier threads to say I think Sam is probably genuine but has tried to scale up a perfectly viable and helpful individual-based local word-of-mouth support service via dodgy mass-marketing internet sales tactics that are hugely inappropriate for the clientele she’s dealing with. And all this “Mumsnet is so mean and ruining my business in a targeted campaign” and sending flying monkeys to defend it here just show that this is not someone who ought to be trading on the internet. They don’t have the understanding or the right business a d have been terribly advised.

I’m glad they’re helping you. I’m sure they can keep helping your family, or point you in the direction of support, even if they cease trading in the current format.

@NoSquirrels this is what I don’t get though, everything they told me prior to signing up, on the ads, the website, on the very long chat I had before joining, EVERYTHING they said has been fulfilled. They explained who Sam and the mentors were, what their backgrounds were and the experiences that led them to bring there, I was never hoodwinked into thinking they had degrees in this and that, Sam is an anxiety survivor and so are the mentors either through their children or their own experiences. You don’t pay the money just to get the ‘information on how to cure it’ because there isn’t one size fits all answer! you pay for their ongoing support, guidance and help with every issue that comes up in YOUR household as it comes about until you start to master it yourself, there’s no end date, they are there for as long as you want them, at least I hope they will be if this doesn’t ruin it. Not one thing I was told before I joined has not come to fruition and to have them there on a daily basis for as long as we need them has been not only a life saver but a game changer. My son is finally starting to smile again and our family are starting to have fun again, and it’s been a long time I can tell you! There’s a glimmer of hope that his schooling will get back on track and his education won’t be wasted, which for such a bright kid, but one that can’t get into the classroom most days would be a tragedy. No one else has helped before this, NHS, schools, no one! The thought of this company closing because this campaign against them is so upsetting, the parents all support each other and we know the team, pointing us in another direction that may not work so well could be devastating to all the progress we’ve made so far, just because people don’t like the way they market themselves, or this and that that really don’t matter in the grand scheme of things, those things may well need improving but that can be changed, to be deemed charlatans and vilified in the way I see on these threads is just not right. Calling us flying monkeys for trying to defend this is really offensive too! Do we just sit back and potentially see our support hounded out of business? This thread needs a balance of people who support it instead of those just trying to ruin it, which the creator has already said she herself personally is setting out to do! This has changed my life, my ex husbands life and ALL my children’s lives through the new parenting skills I’m being taught and the new skills they are teaching my son in learning to handle his anxiety. Ok, it didn’t work for the one woman that started this, there could be a whole host of reasons for that, god there’s plenty of companies I’ve fallen out with because I’ve spent good money on something and it’s not worked or been crap! I don’t set about to put them out of business though. If we try and post positive comments we are accused of being ‘socks’ (I’d never heard of that before) accused of being crazy or ‘friends’ with Sam! This thread is NOT a fair and balanced argument it’s a witch hunt! 😞

I don’t think you can say calling people ‘flying monkeys’ is particularly offensive when you’ve deliberately come over to Mumsnet and created an account to post belittling other people’s opinions by saying they’ve got too much time on their hands and don’t work, prefer to spend their money on luxuries than on helping their children, are ignorant and “vindictive poisonous bullies” etc.

It’s great you are getting benefit from this programme. I understand you don’t want it to fold and lose that support. I’m sure Sam will still support you even if the company in its current form isn’t viable - FB groups can be started and managed free of charge and can be great supportive spaces, for instance.

The public defence of the company in this forum is doing more harm than good, I’d say. Running an internet-based service isn’t the same as doing 1-1 work in person with families. If Sam and team have been badly advised on sales tactics, marketing and business model that’s up to them to fix, really -but bad PR doesn’t go away if people throw fuel on the fire.

Anyway, I wish you all the best and hope your family continues to improve with the work you’re doing.

If the company is ethical and has satisfied customers it won't need to close, will it?

Part of the problem though is the numerous name changes so we don't actually know what company we are talking about.

Plus the fact that the outward presence of whichever company is evolving quite a lot (mainly it seems in response to MN comments).

However when you have seen on their website '100% success guaranteed' it is difficult to 'unsee' it even when the claim is later removed. It makes me question the ethics of the people behind the claim.

I am also still trying to get answers to my questions

• what kind of advice are they giving to you as a parent or to your child?
• How are they telling you to react?
• What steps are they suggesting you try?
• etc.

And please don't tell me it is too complicated, or you don't have time, or too individualised, or other such fluff.

ps Some paragraphs in any response would be helpful too.

Where did you see that people called you crazy @scowe?

You’ve come on here to accuse ‘us mums’ of spending money on designer bags, and of having no jobs and accused the OP of trying to bring down a company. Daaxy has started a thread, linked it to some other threads and posted a transcript of high pressure sales techniques that they accidentally sent her. Whether that brings down a company or not is up to the people reading the threads. They are more than welcome to disagree with what we’ve said and use Sam’s services anyway.

We’ve all asked questions which haven’t really been answered. It’s been shown that several of the people who posted in support of Sam, were actually Sam or Martin so it’s understandable to be a bit sceptical when another new person comes on.

these people genuinely save lives, thank you for everything

Their son is asking people to come on this forum and post positive reviews. He has posted “can I just ask a massive favour from as many people as possibe” “ to create a mums net account and just say something positive on the thread”.

I have a screenshot if anyone needs it

Oh my goodness @Chloesmith2004, I am not in the least bit surprised that Tom or Will (I think those are the sons names) are doing that. What a delightfully unscrupulous bunch they are!

We will be prepared for the onslaught of posts as will Mumsnet Admin.

This is a thread calling out the poor practices of this organisation and not one to support/endorse/cheer lead!

@GoodButNaughty

I am completely non bias and trying to find anxiety support for my daughter.

I don't think you're allowed to stop freedom of speech on threads are you?

You're acting as some sort of saint, when actually there are posts from mums recently suggesting that you potentially are creating more damage then good.

I’d like to see the screenshot, please @Chloesmith2004

@ajsieee

Is there a free week, because I would love to have a look.

I am not stopping freedom of speech @Teaorcoffee12, I am merely pointing out that the thread was started with a purpose and intention. You are free to set up any thread you wish to extol your perceived virtues of PP, YCFF or whatever they are calling themselves today.

And beleive me - I am no saint, nor am I claiming to be one (did you note my user name?) I am simply supporting my freind who had a very poor experience with this organisation. If you have missed this important and pertinent fact I invite you to read through the whole thread. Due to my friend please note, therefore, I have second-hand and direct knowledge of this organisations approach.

Ummm, sorry @Teaorcoffee12 but you do not know who my freind is. She has not posted on Mumsnet and has no intention of doing so. She is no one on this or other threads as she has deliberately and specifically decided not to speak out but instead asked me to do that on her behalf. I take that duty - as a good freind - very seriously.

Please do not make unsubstantiated claims here. Also, what are you referring to IP addresses for??

I dont think you have any idea what I (and others) are trying to achieve.

@GoodButNaughty
I do.

I have read, incredible amounts of evidence over the months, about this thread and the 3 others which are currently under investigation.

If there is a free week, and they have addressed all points raised.
Then you are clearly here to take down/damage a company, which is actually an illegal stance.

@Teaorcoffee12 Are you trying to say that you know who good’s friend is from her IP address?

Unfortunately you have just shown that you do not understand what my intentions are. I do not speak for anyone else on this thread, but there are others here who have similar intentions as mine.

If you really have read the whole thread/s you will see that I (and others) have been really explicit about our aims. I am not going to waste my time reiterating these aims here, suffice to say that I am not in the slightest bit concerned about your comments.

If there is an investigation (whatever that means) then I welcome it, as would the producers of the Radio programme that thoroughly investigated the organisation.

Are you in the legal field? What makes these actions 'illegal'? Surely as you pointed out yourself this is about freedom of speech which I am entitled to, as you are...

And finally, the organisation (PP, YCFF, Kactus Kids??) have not addressed all our questions. There are many questions outstanding...

I did read your post that’s now been deleted but can’t remember exactly what it said. I think you said you can tell who good’s friend is from her IP address. Which seems implausible.

[quote Teaorcoffee12]@ajsieee

Is there a free week, because I would love to have a look.[/quote]
www.yourparentportal.co.uk
If you would like to find out more about what this company can do to help your family for yourself rather than being bombarded with opinions 🙂

@GoodButNaughty

Ummm, sorry *@Teaorcoffee12* but you do not know who my freind is. She has not posted on Mumsnet and has no intention of doing so. She is no one on this or other threads as she has deliberately and specifically decided not to speak out but instead asked me to do that on her behalf. I take that duty - as a good freind - very seriously.

Please do not make unsubstantiated claims here. Also, what are you referring to IP addresses for??

I dont think you have any idea what I (and others) are trying to achieve.

Can I ask what you are trying to achieve? I get you are sceptical and suspicious. I get you want some answers. These threads started months ago. Yes, recently a lot of positive comments have been added. Do you not think that this is because it is NOT a scam, it works (if you put the work in yourself too). Someone even compared it to a cult!! And if you put the work in as a family they will be with you until your child has recovered. This is not '8 weeks and your out' this is until recovered. But, if you wish, you can step away at any time.

I have been on the programme myself and would recommend it to anyone whose child is having problems. Unfortunatley there is not much help for families to work together as a unit. Until people have lived with their child and themselves truly struggling feeling really isolated and lost as how to help their child recover I honestly dont understand the negativity surrounding this programme. Yes it costs money but so does most things in life! Thats reality!

It’s striking how there’s been such a sudden influx of positive posts. All at the same time.

At risk of repeating myself - I would be happy for the organisation to continue offering their services if they operated in a more appropriate manner. By appropriate I mean things like the following (this list is NOT exhaustive):

• being upfront about their own training and experience as there have been many claims about Sam's history but I know that much of this is unsubstantiated
• ensuring all mentors have up to date DBS checks; for example what if a mentor had a previous conviction for a child related crime? How are PP protecting young people if there are no DBS checks in place?!
• ensuring all mentors have minimum appropriate training (in anxiety?); regardless of PPs claims that this is purely a physical condition, this is not an accepted claim, and regardless, the physical cannot be easily seperated from the mental, meaning that there should absolutely be training for ALL mentors in this area so that they can adequately, safely and appropriately support these young people
• confirming registration with the ICO for data protection purposes
• ensuring all safeguarding measures are followed (I dont know alot about what this entails but I know it is a concern expressed by others and that many concerns have been levied against PP)
• using appropriate advertising, and not making false claims
• ensuring they are running a regulatory limited company, ie. paying the appropriate VAT to HMRC
• offering fair refunds for those people who are unhappy with the service provided
• ceasing the use of high pressure NLP based sales tactics that prey on those who (for example) are desperate or at the end of their tether
• charge a fair & reasonable amount of money for this service; £5500 (and suggesting that people get into debt to pay these fees) is not, however PP want to dress this up

If these items (and likely many more) are addressed, then I would be stepping away from all of this and reassuring my freind that changes have taken place.

Sadly, I do not think any of these things are likely. I would be very happy for anyone to correct me though...