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Your child freedom formula / child anxiety programmes - thread 2

481 replies

Psuedoshoes · 24/06/2021 17:27

Carrying on the discussion of YCFF and other similar programmes...

Link to previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/child_adolescent_mental_health/4239684-your-child-freedom-formula-has-anyone-tried-it?msgid=108493516#108493516

OP posts:
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19
HappyCC · 06/10/2021 18:05

Funny how theres a lot if negative when u obvs dont know what yr talking about????

EPPM · 06/10/2021 18:26

Which programme is it you're using @scowe? And how long has your child been following it?

I have to say this thread has been extremely enlightening. Thanks to all for your sterling efforts, and my regards to you and your families, hoping you get through this Thanks

EPPM · 06/10/2021 18:28

Terribly sad for Sam Robins to be sued for deformation [sic] though, isn't it? Hopefully she's bouncing back to normal shape now Wink

SwanShaped · 06/10/2021 19:08

What do you mean EPPM?

scowe · 06/10/2021 19:48

@GoodButNaughty and @Chloesmith2004 this thread was discussed on our group call, as 'quite justifiably' i have seen for myself, their programme is being trashed on here and there is a deliberate attempt going on here to try and close them down, which is the last thing they want. If that does happen, i hope you can live with yourself if it ruins all the good work they are doing so far in changing my son's life for the better. Are they just supposed to sit back and let that happen? Yes they asked if we would take a look and if we felt that we wanted to post our own experiences to try and provide a more balanced view. Unfortunately though, if we post a positive one, we are deemed to be crazy or fake. Where's the balance if people who find this service helpful and have no issue in paying for it aren't allowed to have their say and respected for their own views. At least we can make informed decisions being 'paying customers' after all. What's you're personal experience with this company please, i'm genuinely interested and happy to listen to any negative experiences you have had with them.

scowe · 06/10/2021 19:52

@EPPM i'm a little bemused as you have posted a genuine comment asking my questions and then straight after made a joke about Sam being sued? Do you know her personally? You seem to have a real dislike for her and i'm wondering what this is based on.
In answer to your question though, we joined in August, so we are now approx 6 weeks in. We are now at the point of seeing some lovely little changes coming in, things which parents that haven't been through having a child with anxiety would probably take for granted, such as him smiling again, actually going out and playing outside with peers a few times, making it into more of his lessons, no agression, very little frustration and this week he actually joined the lunchtime football sessions at school which for a football mad child that has never felt able to do this before due to his social anxiety is a HUGE leap. Please don't judge so harshly until you have walked at least a day in our shoes.

GoodButNaughty · 06/10/2021 19:54

I’m not prepared to repeat myself again @scowe; I’ve stated many times my connection, motivation and experience of this organisation.

Please read the whole thread...all 4 of them...

scowe · 06/10/2021 20:25

@GoodButNaughty , how very humble of you to 'permit' them to carry on trading if they meet you demands. Are you a professional in holding business' to account.
As you are willing to hear 'otherwise' i will reply.
-Before i joined they were totally upfront about their own training and experience. I believe many of the staff have formal qualifications, many come from and NHS background, the others have come out the other side of anxiety themselves. When i was going through the process of considering joining i was NEVER mislead about any of this.

  • To be honest, even working in childcare myself in the past i have felt no need to check if they are DBS checked, all their mentoring takes place in my home and nothing is behind closed doors so the fact that i am here too means that if don't feel it's needed. However, they may have this in place, i'm not sure, as like i say, even though i've been required to have DBS' in place myself in the past, it doesn't really seem relevant in this situation.
  • can i ask what you consider to be 'appropriate training (in anxiety?); in my own personal opinion, speaking to people who have themselves suffered from anxiety for many many years, or having a child that has conquered it, works far better for me that a formal qualification. All the qualifications in the world don't necessarily make you any better than someone who has lived through this themselves, as has been proved by the numerous teachers, head teachers and medical professionals that have failed these children so far.
  • confirming registration with the ICO for data protection purposes is not something i'm familiar with so can't comment on this.
  • I have had NO concerns about safeguarding, so i'm not sure which 'concerns' you are referring to, like i said, everything takes place in my home while i'm in the house too and is via zoom, so i'm not sure what risk you feel there is?
  • I have not found any of their advertising innapropriate, everything that i read and explored while i was researching them prior to joining as been exactly as i have found them in practice. With regards to the false claims, what are you referring to, and how are you backing that up (evidence wise)?
  • Can i ask what makes you feel they are not paying appropriate VAT?
  • With regards to offering fair refunds for those people who are unhappy with the service provided, how do you know that they aren't? You are told right from the get go, that for this programme to work, the parents need to fully engage too, they can't just work with the child and the parents carry on as normal? And going through the programme myself, i wholeheartedly agree to that. So if the parents don't do there part and it doesn't work ...they just get a refund yes? Even though the team may have done all they could to try and get that engagement? I assume you are referring to the claims by the person who started this post, do you know of any others who claim to have not had their money back despite following the programme as you should?
  • I personally never experienced any high pressure NLP based sales tactics, so perhaps you could elaborate. Until recently i was a sales manager for a team that sell products over the phone, so i think i have enough professional experience to judge their sales technique. I've seen several posts referring to their 'sales team' too, well they aren't a big outfit and after requesting a call back i was phoned by the lady that also does their admin, not a member of any sales 'team', so again i'm a bit bemused by that comment so if you could give me specific examples that would be greatly appreciated.
  • Can i ask what you consider to a be a fair and reasonable charge for their service? Considering the support we have had so far (approx 45hrs of online support between the 3 of us (myself, my ex and my son) in the first 6 weeks and i'm estimating that we are probably about a quarter of the way through this. We also can revisit at any time after recovery if either us or our child needs any further support or advise if a new challenge occurs. There is a guy advertising on facebook right now 'the lindon programme' i believe, he charges £1500 for his advise for up to 36hrs, what happens if 36hrs isn't enough. All three of us have access to our own support mentors, and for an unlimited time. Wages need paying, so tell me what you think is a fair charge? Noone is forced into paying for this, if you don't want to pay that's your choice, to me, and trust me i'm not rolling in it, £5k to get my son healthy again is not a large amount of money if it changes the rest of his life. They don't offer any credit services, but yes, if you don't have that spare money sitting in the bank but you want to invest you will have to borrow, just like buying a car or something, i'm sure you would prefer they give this service for free, but unless the government decide to start funding this type of help that's just not possible is it?
scowe · 06/10/2021 20:32

Seems like we are dammed off we do post our experiences and dammed if we don’t as there would be no balance to this thread! 🙄

SwanShaped · 06/10/2021 20:37

I guess what I don’t understand is how this thread will bring the business down. They make huge amounts of money according to Martin. And seem to have enough parents willing to join and happy with the service. So what’s the problem?

SwanShaped · 06/10/2021 20:38

Also, you say there’s no balance. How do? Some of us post that were concerned about the programme, other people post that they’re happy with it. Surely that’s balance.

GoodButNaughty · 06/10/2021 20:46

@scowe

Answers to all of your points made in response to mine are within these threads.

Evidence, screen grabs etc etc etc... all here in these threads.

I’m tired from repeating myself... Hmm

Daaxy · 06/10/2021 21:15

@SwanShaped

It’s striking how there’s been such a sudden influx of positive posts. All at the same time.
Swan - PP customers have been asked yesterday and today to post on Mumsnet
Daaxy · 06/10/2021 21:20

Posted on other related thread also

The recent posts reflect the conflict I have felt. I suspect PP can offer help that is of value to some families - help delivered by people who have recovered from a 'disorder' can be valuable. Support from others facing similar difficulties can make a difference.

I know that at times I have felt desperate and I would have paid £5500 for help that was pretty much guaranteeing my son would recover in around 8 weeks. This would not place me in undue financial hardship. But it will place some in financial difficulty which takes the concerns about PP to a different level.

There are however a number of red flags when it comes to Peaky Parents . The worrying things is that I would potentially minimise these worries because I am so focused on achieving a positive outcome for my son. The concerns I have are an easy fix for Peaky Parents.

  • stop changing company name - provide transparency about provenance of the organisation
  • employ a qualified professional (and regulated) central to the company - the associated code of ethics to be applied to the business
  • cessation of marketing strategies that are unethical and unprofessional in this type of service (i will post the telephone script sent to me by PP on this thread - it makes shocking reading and it should be entirely apparent to anyone running this type of business in an ethical way that this marketing approach is fundamentally wrong)
  • cessation of using reviews that identifies a person under 18yo (even if the review is anonymous I am worried about it --if the child 'relapses', it may make it more difficult to seek help when they have given a positive review about their recovery
  • it does look like Sam and / or Martin have been posting on Mumsnet as if they are customers (unprofessional)

PP business owners have adopted the marketing strategy of High Ticket Academy - listen to their webinar. It is clear that the management structure of Peaky Parents do not have any trustworthy code of ethics having employed this business model, and bragged about it.

PP pretty much guarantee that your child will be fixed in around 8 weeks. Is this true?

I am truly conflicted - there are things that are fundamentally wrong - but if it works then I don't rule it out. This is why I know I am so vulnerable - it is a circular argument!

EPPM · 06/10/2021 21:45

@scowe please do not assume posters that you don't know have no personal experience of parenting children with anxiety, thanks.

EPPM · 06/10/2021 21:47

@SwanShaped sorry- crap joke about SR seemingly not knowing the difference between deformation and defamation (which it more customary to sue for!)

scowe · 06/10/2021 21:50

@Daaxy i'm not going to answer all your points as i've done that not long ago in reply to someone else, AND just written a message so long replying to @TeenMinusTests's genuine questions this morning and just lost the whole bloody lot before i could click on post... so i'm kind of exhausted after an extremely long day on the road. But i will say anyone who seems to post a positive comment seems to be accused of being Sam or Martin and i'm getting a bit fed up with it. And also, they don't guarantee your child will reach recovery in 8 weeks, that is the average, we are 6 weeks in but we did 2 weeks of work on our parenting skills first by following the programme and attending the group sessoins before our child started to engage with his mentor so he's about 4 weeks in and we are already seeing changes which literally are overwhelming after so many years of struggling, but their service doesn't end when he does recover, you can go back and check in for as long as you want, i like to think i/we won't need to, but it is there if you need it. As long as people like the ones on here don't force the company to shut. I don't know why the name has changed, i will ask them when i log onto my next group session and will try to answer that question when i know. It's your choice, they don't FORCE anyone to do it, but i'm sincerely thankful that i did, i now feel that my child has the potential to have a happy and healthy life instead of the future i envisaged for him before i started and if that's not enough for those on here that won't accept any positive comments about the team helping us because the only comments that seem to be classed as 'valid' are those knocking them let them get on with it.

scowe · 06/10/2021 22:01

@SwanShaped

Also, you say there’s no balance. How do? Some of us post that were concerned about the programme, other people post that they’re happy with it. Surely that’s balance.

I hope it's more balanced now, but it seems that anyone who posts a positive comment is shot down as being fake. I've been called a 'winged monkey' a 'sock' and had Sam referred to as my 'friend' so far, as if it's just not possible for me to be geniune customer. So be it, i'm feel like i'm one of the lucky ones as my child is recovering, for those that want to find alternative ways to try and help theirs, i wish them the very best of luck because it's been a tough road for me up until 6 weeks ago getting my son the help he needed.

Mibb2 · 06/10/2021 22:34

scowe it's just because Sam has posed as a customer on these threads before, so people are understandably a bit wary.

scowe · 06/10/2021 22:37

@TeenMinusTests i promised to reply to this morning while i was on the road, and i did when i got home then lost the lot.
I also promised someone that i would read the entire threads from start to finish as i was chastised for not doing this even though i feel able to have an informed opinion as i'm going through the progamme and have seen that you have been asking the same questions since June. I don't know if you are looking for some quick bullet points that will help as a quick fix out of your situation but trust me there is no quick fix, the whole programme isn't just about your child, is about your own parenting techniques and recognising where you own anxiety may been feeding into theirs, discovering that as a parent i have developed my own anxieties over the stress of the next phone call from the school, the ruined days out (if you can even get them out) the conflict in the house and feeling awful for his poor little sister while all this is going on so there is no bullet points for that, it's a journey you have to go through at the beginning of the programme looking at your own parenting techniques based on your own childhood etc, once you regonise there (which is a very emotional journey) and learn how to manage you own you are then in a position to help your child with theirs when they engage with their mentor. My child was heading down the route towards self harm and getting permantely excluded from school, and you could see how miserable he was just by looking at him. My journey looking at my parenting skills has enabled me to handle his anxiety attacks so much better, not get drawn into the drama, let my anticipation of things going tits up affect my mood and letting him pick up on my anxiety too, which i know now for a fact he did as with me changing, he is changing too. His dad is having a tougher time trying to deal with his own anxieties, as he too has had them since being a child, so it's quite a journey for him but the support he is getting to work through this is amazing, and he's finding it much easier to not react negatively to the drama caused by my son's anxiety and as he's starting to cope better with his my son is far more relaxed and behaving a lot better when at his house (we are divorced) and in box houses the outbursts, temper tantrum etc have stopped, and he's been out a couple of times with a friend to play footie, has been a little better at getting into lessons at school and this week has joined the school lunchtime football club... i never saw that happen... he may not make it to every session but it's a start! I can't stress to you enough that what i have learned through this programme is so much more than the 'child's' anxiety, it affects everyone in the household and every story is different and extremely personal so when you keep asking for these kind of points as to what we are asked to do it's just not that easy, what I'M having to do is different to what MY EX is having to do as both our struggles are different as in how it makes us feel and how each of us handle our son's anxiety attacks, and while we work on our shit with our mentors, my son is now engaging beautifully with his mentor (4 weeks now) and the mentor helps him understand all the physical symptoms his anxiety causes (which then leads to all the outward signs of distress) and is helping him to take little steps at a time to work through them until they no longer happen. The basic principles are the same, address your own anxiety so you are better placed to help create a calm environment for the child, don't get drawn into the drama when they do have an anxiety attack, distraction techniques, removing yourself from them so they settle themselves, etc etc. all sounds easy i'm sure, but i've been a mum for 21 years and trust me it's not easy to break these habits, but i'm getting there, and if i have a bad bad, or a big challenge i'm not sure about i can log on to speak to the mentors for advise, or sometimes i just log on to be a part of the group as it's so nice to feel that i'm not the only one with a child like this, and often their advise helps me, if not that day, on a later day when a similar thing occurs. I couldn't be doing any of this without the team and Sam, so perhaps now you will have some idea of why the mums going through this and finding it helpful are so defensive and don't want the views of a few to affect the service that we are all so thankful for.

NoSquirrels · 06/10/2021 22:48

I hope it's more balanced now, but it seems that anyone who posts a positive comment is shot down as being fake. I've been called a 'winged monkey' a 'sock' and had Sam referred to as my 'friend' so far, as if it's just not possible for me to be geniune customer.

Of course it’s possible you’re a genuine poster - but it’s also possible that you’re a genuine poster and a ‘flying monkey’ (i.e. directed here specifically to do someone’s bidding - directed by the company to post here to benefit the company.)

Over all the threads so far on this company, some posters have had very, VERY similar posting styles - and MNHQ have deleted some posts and confirmed that a couple of posters were indeed ‘sock puppets’ (i.e. posters name changing and replying to themselves in support, as if a person is carrying on a conversation with themselves that’s one-sided). And further that sometimes the ‘sock puppet’ posts were the company owners themselves.

So you can understand that when you ask for ‘balance’ and your opinions to be taken seriously there’s some justified suspicion that a) you were directed here specifically to leave comments, and b) you might not actually BE satisfied customers.

It is unfortunate, I grant you, that the company you say is providing such a great benefit to your child is under scrutiny that’s affecting their business. That’s a worry for anyone who’s invested their cash in their service.

But if they cease trading that’s not because of MN. It’s because their business model is flawed under scrutiny.

GoodButNaughty · 27/10/2021 14:53

The ASA have posted their ruling about the ads posted by YCFF:

www.asa.org.uk/rulings/tomwill--holdings--ltd-g21-1116080-tomwill--holdings--ltd.html

Seems the complaint was upheld! Yay!

Psuedoshoes · 27/10/2021 16:21

So sorry, for various reasons I've not logged in until now. So pleased to see this, amazing result! Well done ladies 👏

Sorry Sam and scammer Co. Sad

OP posts:
Mibb2 · 28/10/2021 22:09

fundingfalcon.co.uk/tomwill-holdings-ltd/
Not sure what this means but funding flacon was mentioned in the sales call script

Mibb2 · 28/10/2021 22:12

I read through the ASA report. They were actually listing coeliac disease as one of the 'labels' put on an anxiety disorder.