Do you judge mums who bottle feed?

[babybrian]

I tried to breastfeed, for one reason and another I failed. I am about to start going to baby groups and have worked myself into a bit of a neurotic state.

Tell me, honestly , do you judge mums who bottle feed? My dd is only 8 weeks and I worry people will think I don't love her.

Currycrazy, are you sure it's guilt you feel, or might it be something else? You have no reason to feel guilty - you did the best you could for your baby, based on your understanding at the time and what was possible for you. This is what we all did. I read your posts and others like them and think that society has cheated you and your baby - you really have not been able to make a free choice. You can only really choice if you have full understanding and access to all the options. When you grow up in a bottle feeding society it becomes very difficult to have a physiologically normal experience of early mothering (which is what breastfeeding is) because so, so many things - (emotional, social and medical) act as barriers to normal breastfeeding.

Please don't feel bad. Mother love is an amazing thing - your children are very lucky to have you!

Sorry - "only really choose"

Considering pain meds end up in breast milk I would think it is potentially harmful for a baby to ingest it!
MOTB, I think it's in poor taste and ridiculous to liken bottle feeding to abortion.

My baby failed to thrive and I did not end up bottle feeding- instead I persisted in breastfeeding while she got thinner and thinner until she was finally taken into hospital. Now when I look at those photos I can see her ribs sticking out, but at the time I was convinced she had to be ok because she was breastfed on demand and I had been told that had to be right for a baby. The midwives and doctors who were trying to tell me otherwise were clearly not committed enough to breastfeeding.

Do I feel proud of myself for having persevered? Well, what do you reckon?

Cory, that's a really unfortunate story. It reinforces my view that it's harmful for the breast feeding brigade to bash everyone over the head with their views... the result is new mums can feel they have absolutely no alternative if they want what's best for their baby, though it may not be the best thing at all!
When you're a new mum it can be difficult to approach problems like this objectively - made all the more difficult when the decision to bottle feed comes with a great big serving of guilt & shame attached.

I ff my ds, and i got judged from all the other mothers on my ward, bar one, and also from my mothers next door neighbour who was one of those ff bashers, whose bf ds i could here through the walls screaming for a feed all night, whilst my ds slept right through!It was her ds who gave me sleepless nights!
However, if i ever have another dc, i am going to give bf a go this time as im older and wiser now.
I know this is no excuse, but i was practically still a child myself when i had ds (he is nearly 10 now), and my reasons for ff were selfish ones, i didnt want saggy boobs, getting them out in public, my parents could take a turn e.t.c, but i felt it was wrong of those who judged me, as it was there dc who were always hungry and needing constantly fed, the neighbours ds wasnt getting enough bm and she refused to give up, when she did eventually give in to fm, he gained weight and slept right through!
Although im going to give bf a go next time, if it doesnt work out, im not going to feel guilty about ff again, and i dont think ff mothers should be judged, whatever their reasons for doing so.

My reaction to Cory's story is not that this is the fault of those supporting breastfeeding - both my babies got readmitted to hospital - DS1 ended up on formula, and I topped up DS2 initally but managed to return to exclusive bf from 6 weeks to 6 months - it wasn't easy getting there though.

What made me angry is that doctors and midwives often tell us the baby isn't getting enough, but don't actually seem able to show women how to do it to change that, rather than giving top ups and so shutting down supply far too fast.

DS1 still often doesn't sleep through, he's actually generally been more difficult than DS2 on sleeping, plus I find bf in the night if I have to much less hassle than getting out of bed to go to the kitchen.

misbonpoint

Yes pain meds in breastmilk isn't ideal, but it's probably better than formula, people breastfeed while on all sorts of drugs, including antidepressants, as it's often still the lesser evil.

In response to me having poor taste for likening to formula to abortion.
I only did so as they're both examples of 'my body my choice' yet the choice affects another being.
YOU must be under the veiw that abortion is a bad thing to do which is why you don't want them likening.
I'M not against abortion at all politically.

I never cease to be amazed by the level of feeling generated by the breast/bottle debate. Surely it is up to each individual and everyone else should mind their own business.

I chose to bottle feed both of mine from the outset. Both thrived.

I could have written your post, babybrian.

While I was pregnant I have to admit that when I saw mothers bottle-feeding, I thought: "That looks awful!" So I did judge, even though I had no experience or knowledge of the issue whatsoever.

My son was born - horrendous problems which I won't go into - I was determined to breastfeed him because he was likely to have brain damage (due to the birth) and I knew breastfeeding would be good for his health.

Not one single drop of milk came out of my boobs. I do not exaggerate. Not one single drop, even when they hooked me up to the "milking machine" (I had one drop of colostrum, which was syringed into his mouth in intensive care). They started him on formula in intensive care without asking me, probably because he would have dehydrated otherwise, and to cut a very long story short, he ended up as a formula-fed baby.

In retrospect, I should have been on Cloud 9 because I had a gorgeous baby who was alive and thriving despite his health problems. Instead I beat myself up for months and months at my "failure" to breastfeed. I put myself through hell. I still feel like crying when I think about it. I had midwives, doctors, other mothers telling me I was a failure. I had some horrible, hurtful things happen to me which I can't bring myself to write down they still upset me so much. Ever since he was born, my little boy has been my absolute top priority, he is my number one, I have fought tooth and nail to get his health problems sorted out - yet I didn't breastfeed him. Looking back, I can't believe I put myself through the mill over this issue. Babies such diddumses when they're tiny but I spent my son's first 8 weeks in a nightmare of guilt and anxiety - that's time I'm never going to get back!

And yes, I went through agonies over starting the mother and baby group. I almost wasn't going to go because I thought I'd be the only mother there who was bottle-feeding and that I'd be drummed out of town. As it happened, there was only me and one other mother who were formula-feeding and it just so happened that we bonded (similar traumatic birth experiences) and she is now a very good friend - I'm so glad I went! Also, I have to say, another mother at the group said to me that I would never know how much I had damaged my son for not breast-feeding him - and while she was saying this, she was breast-feeding her daughter and eating a McDonald's Cheeseburger at the same time! I had to laugh!

Oh - and my son is now 4 and as bright as a button, a really little livewire who has developed right on target.

Interesting thread. My own views: Would I judge someone who had tried to bf but struggled and ended up ff? No, because I've been there, done that etc etc.

Would I judge someone who came out with a load of crap about their boobs being for their DP, bf is weird/perverted, they didn't want to bf because they wanted other people to do the feeds. Yes, to be very honest, I would judge that person. Sorry but the question was asked.

Agree very strongly with tittybangbang's post. Our ff society has impressed upon us that bf is a lifestyle choice. Our boobs are for feeding babies just as our legs are for walking. We don't "choose" to walk or not. Some people, unfortunately, are unable to walk just a few woman are unable to bf and so alternatives have to be found. My DH is from West Africa and I have quite a few relatives out there who are currently bf babies/toddlers of various ages. No-one questions them about it, they don't expect praise or criticism; bf actually is a non event about which no-one would even think about commenting. And before anyone attacks me for comparing our 'civilised' Western society to a third world country; believe it not, these woman are not sitting in mud huts with their boobs hanging out straight out of an Oxfam TV ad but are educated with good jobs/businesses.

lol TH I glanced at your post and was at your last line until I read it in full

Why does everyone assume that if you've failed to breastfeed this is because you haven't been given enough advice or haven't read enough about techniques? Of course that happens, but it's not the only reason; you can't assume it in any one case.

I had so much breastfeeding support it's unbelievable! Very pro-breatsfeeding hospital, mine. We had oodles of breastfeeding advice at the NHS ante-natal course, I had read lots, in hospital a midwife came and sat at my bedside every time I wanted help to latch on, the health visitors were all clued up about breastfeeding, the hospital breastfeeding counsellor came to my house daily. And my milk supply was massive: I never had a problem with filling a bottle straight after breastfeeding; the stuff was just spurting out of me. And I had read everything there was to read about latching on.

The problem was that dd was hypotonic and not strong enough to suckle.

That is something they never tell you: that however good you are as a parent, the baby can still muck things up!

"Babies know, babies follow their instinct, babies are perfect." Well, mine weren't.

The problem was that I was so hooked on breastfeeding that I wouldn't top up with formula, because I was convinced this would make me an inferior parent. I cared so much about being the perfect mother! In the event, I breastfed until 11 months, nearly drove myself into a nervous breakdown, dd was sleepy and tired and looking back probably wasn't very healthy for the first few months, and tbh I don't like to think what would have happened if she had caught a bug. It's not that I didn't like breastfeeding, it is just the uncomfortable thought that I was taking big risks with dd's health.

Fortunately, I had relaxed a bit when ds was born and was able to follow his abilities rather than what the books said babies should be able to do. And that did mean topping up, because again he wasn't strong enough to get enough milk in through his own efforts. So he did grow and thrive and turned very quickly from a scrawny undergrown to a chubby one.

This is the one time in the life when, looking back, I realise that out of all professionals the doctors actually gave the best advice, because they were more pragmatic, less tied to an ideal of what things ought to be like and had obviously seen sickly babies before. I was in complete denial.

cory, I think the reason is that 98% (or whatever) of women can breastfeed (although I queried this on my peer supporter course and would still love an answer to my question).
In countries like Sweden the rates are much much higher than ours, implying that when the culture and support is there, most people can and do bf.
Of course there are exceptions.

My question for the peer support trainer was about situations where physically the woman can breastfeed but for reasons not relating to bf she can't - some drugs, immense pain that she can't bear with, or situations like yours (not that I had thought of that at the time). Do they fall into the 98% or the 2%? I suppose my question is what are the reasons for the 2% not being able to breastfeed?

StealthPolar, the reason why I clung to breastfeeding even when it clearly wasn't doing dd any good was that I am Swedish, I and I was so smug proud of my country's statistics and determined not to let them down.

There was obviously nothing wrong with my ability to breastfeed: in fact, at a later stage I was filling the freezer and sending a weekly consignment to the hospital bottle bank.

I have since had to accept that this was one of many things that my dcs were not good at doing: like they are not terribly good at walking in their tweens/teens, and not terribly good at standing at the top of the stairs without falling down them, or (in ds's case) not terribly good at holding a pen.

But it's like an invisible category: the child that might actually have something wrong with it, but we don't know that yet.

P.S. About the Swedish statistics: one thing I do know is that most women there think nothing of giving the occasional top-up of formula: to them that doesn't count as not breast feeding, or mixed feeding or anything. Both my SILs topped up; they would still describe themselves as breastfeeders if a survey came round and asked them.

Adds "cory is Swedish" to mental list of "things I know about MNers"
Yes, I just wonder which category you and your DCs would be in. You were producing milk but unable for other reasons to bf. Sometimes I get the impression that the 2% is mainly women who've had breast reductions, and the rest are classed as 'can but don't" iyswim when it's not as black and white as that
Interesting about the top ups. Makes sense though, after all you're still a breastfeeder once your baby's eating food

not that I'm obsessing over you personally, you understand but women who gave it their all and then for whatever reason cuoldn't - someone I know stopped because of recurrent abcesses [ouch]

"...the standing up at a crowded bus stop feeding." That is a strange thing to judge a f'feeding mum for - if she had been b'feeding, would you have judged her? Surely if her baby needed feeding, she could feed it wherever she liked.

"On mumsnet however there are more women saying they actually wanted to breastfeed originally....
I don't belive that over three quarters of women (with 5,6 month olds) are unable.
Therefor it must be largely due to choice."

but don't figures show that most women, do want to b'feed and start b'feeding. So maybe not 'unable' in a physically impossible sense, but 'unable' in a ; lack of support, bad help, agonising pain, being told their babies may have to go back to hospital because they are losing weight, they believe they are not producing enough milk, sense (they were all reasons that friends have given for stopping b'feeding). I wouldn't say that is the same as people 'coosing' to f'feed.

I BF all four of my children. To be honest I found it pretty easy and loved the convenience of it all. I've known friends go through agonies of guilt and not being able to get the hang of it.

I certainly would never judge anyone for not doing it. Whatever works for the individual and it's not my place to judge anyway.