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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Do you judge mums who bottle feed?

419 replies

babybrian · 08/04/2010 11:40

I tried to breastfeed, for one reason and another I failed. I am about to start going to baby groups and have worked myself into a bit of a neurotic state.

Tell me, honestly , do you judge mums who bottle feed? My dd is only 8 weeks and I worry people will think I don't love her.

OP posts:
electra · 13/04/2010 22:12

No, I definitely don't. Anyone who does is pathetic. Dd1 and dd2 were perfect, textbook breast feeders but dd3 was a different kettle of fish entirely and despite having a good bf councilor to help and having done it before (in the case of dd2 until she was 2.5!), it just didn't work out that time so dd3 was formula fed from 5/6 weeks. So that just goes to show that anyone can end up having to formula feed.......

hogshead · 13/04/2010 22:12

OP - i often wonder when i see bottle fed babies if the mum had as much difficulty with BF as i did. I felt the same as you when i first started going to groups but it gets easier

RubyBuckleberry · 13/04/2010 22:14

jack newman tells me that:

Babies fed formula are at an increased risk of:

Respiratory Illnesses
Ear Infections
Childhood Cancer
Gastro Diseases
Colitis
Meningitis
Crohn's Disease
Necrotizing Enterocolitis
Eczema
Heart Disease
Allergies

Should I apologise for believing him and bing shocked. What I said in my post earlier stands. It is not just British babies I am thinking of. On a global level, this is a shocker. And I'm amazed that people are not equally outraged at the stupid formula companies.

RubyBuckleberry · 13/04/2010 22:15

sorry, where am i making no sense?

missmoopy · 13/04/2010 22:16

Your post at 22:07 was a particularly good example of rambling nonsense.

missmoopy · 13/04/2010 22:18

Jack Newman says it so its true? Where is his evidence from and what was his research sample?

RubyBuckleberry · 13/04/2010 22:19

"mamasparkle if there is an increased risk of diseases or even SIDs cases in FF infants that it stands to reason that fewer of those infants would have been affected had their mothers breastfed"

you mean this. how is that rambling nonsense? maybe you just don't understand it.

RubyBuckleberry · 13/04/2010 22:20

do you reall think he would make it up or use bollox studies

missmoopy · 13/04/2010 22:21

I understand perfectly, it is a badly written sentence that does not give any evidence and is utter crap.

ff babies die of SID and they would not have died if bf? That is what you are saying? Like the cancer bullshit you cite, there is no way of ever knowing what one factor cause SID or cancer. A whole host of factors contribute to these.

RubyBuckleberry · 13/04/2010 22:27

I am saying that it is a risk factor. If you take away a risk factor there is less risk, no? So it stands to reason that it is possible that fewer children would have been affected by these things had they been breastfed.

You cannot say that women fed formula having a 33% increase in breast cancer rates is insignificant, surely?

RubyBuckleberry · 13/04/2010 22:28

Like I said, do you really think Jack Newman would make this shit up?

Lutyens · 13/04/2010 22:31

Christ On A Bike!

There comes the BF militia. I'm so happy that your halo is shining so brightly you lot.

currycrazy · 13/04/2010 22:33

wonder if all the ladies with these lovely happy facts would be so inclined to research and preach them if they themselves had been unable to breastfeed but it is ok to do so to someone who has obviously had the option already taken from them(op)
NICE

seeker · 13/04/2010 22:35

Depends why. I have a friend who bottlefed because "My breasts are my husband's". I judged her. Another who "Didn't want to ruin my figure". Judged her too.

Another who had such bad mastitis she cried in pain if the baby touched her breast with a fingertip. Didn't judge her. Another who had such a horendous birth she was in shock for days and could hardly bear to think about the baby, never mind feed him - dodn't judge her either.

greatfiresoflondon · 13/04/2010 22:39

Ruby: do you understand the difference between a relative risk and absolute risk?

I suspect not.

a 33% increase can be tiny: if the background risk is 1 case in 10,000 - then a 33% increase in this risk takes it to 1.33 cases in 10,000

You can't just quote random papers. How much of these articles are peer reviewed? How many are controlled for confounding factors? etc etc.

Breastfeeding is better than formula feeding. No one is disputing that. But you have no idea how painful some of your comments might be for someone already beating themselves up about a difficult decision.

OP: I don't judge. I FF one of mine, BF the next. Like most rational people, I always keep in mind that I have NO IDEA of someone elses circumstances and therefore its really not my place to judge them. Good luck with it all.

hogshead · 13/04/2010 22:40

until someone opens a breast milk bank then mums who cant BF dont have any alternative but to FF.

RubyBuckleberry · 13/04/2010 22:41

"wonder if all the ladies with these lovely happy facts would be so inclined to research and preach them if they themselves had been unable to breastfeed"

when i think about that currycrazy, i feel bad, as i didn't mean to hijack - i was just responding and gettng involved. to be honest though it makes me feel even more strongly about it. i have close family who have had problems through no fault of their own too and that makes me feel even stronger about the issues that some people seem unwilling to discuss online, let alone in real life. It seems so wrong and unjust.

currycrazy · 13/04/2010 22:41

greatfiresoflondon what a great post

RubyBuckleberry · 13/04/2010 22:44

greatfiresoflondon i do understand. and when that is transferred to a global figure, that is quite a few lives affected. particularly considering the amount of formula fed infants.

i am only quoting jack newman from one of his books.

greatfiresoflondon · 13/04/2010 22:58

With respect,I doubt that you do, actually Ruby. I have had to study medical stats as part of my job and its very eye opening learning how to assess the quality of a paper. I still find it confusing, and difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff, research-wise.

Someone once summed up for me the difficulty in interpreting research correctly: If you design some research where you teach a cricket to jump when it hears a bell ring, then cut off its legs and record what happens, you could conclude "cutting a crickets legs off means it can't hear anymore" as well as "cutting a crickets legs off means it can't jump anymore" or even "cutting a crickets legs off means it can't remember to jump".

Its just not enough to observe that FF infants have a higher rate of breas cancer. What other factors might mums who formula feed have in common that could affect this? hell, maybe more women who "can't" breastfeed have a problem with their breasts that might be passed on? Maybe they are more likely to smoke? Maybe they are more likely to take certain medications? You can observe a trend but its really hard to prove that doing A causes B.

Sorry for the lecture but I really think a lot of research is worse than crap and can't be taken at face value.

FWIW I think its great that you are clearly so behind BF and think you are right that it should be encouraged and people educated about it.

But you should really walk a mile in someones shoes before judging them.

RubyBuckleberry · 14/04/2010 06:37

Good post greatfiresoflondon. I do actually understand exactly what you are saying.

However, with the reading I have done, it is undeniable that formula is linked to higher risks in various health issues. You are also right about other factors involved, but if it was so ambiguous, why would so many agencies, including the government and the WHO, be interested in increasing breastfeeding rates?

Incidentally, I'm not trying to judge anyone. Indeed I make it clear in a MUCH earlier post on this thread that too many women are failed miserably and it is that I judge. Some women do have genetic factors that impact on their ability to breastfeed, I am aware of this, and for this, formula is a great alternative to starving their babies (although milk donation would be better). But for the most part, women in this country should be able to breastfeed as well as women in many other countries, and as I said earlier, unless we utilise this FURY some people feel at not breastfeeding, and direct it at the right people, not the 'BF militia' , change will never happen. And that starts with being honest about formula as a product, and its 'casual endemic use,' to quote another poster on one of the recent threads about this.

IMHO.

Babieseverywhere · 14/04/2010 08:19

RubyBuckleberry, It is not as simple as you are making out.

A particular baby can have an inflated risk of a certain illness and never have it and another baby have a very low risk of an illness and yet suffer with it.

Certainly formula use increases some health risks at a population level but it is very rare to be able to point at a particular baby and say that baby is ill because he/she was formula fed.

Lastly the majority of mothers are already aware of the health issues, knowing the health issues IMO rarely affects the final feeding outcome. i.e. many formula feeding mothers started out breastfeeding and were unable to continue due to physical problems and/or lack of support. These mothers already know the health factors that doesn't guaranteed that breastfeeding works for you.

RubyBuckleberry · 14/04/2010 08:56

I appreciate the balanced nature of your post babieseverywhere, as always. I agree with most of what you say. Again, I agree wholeheartedly that many "formula feeding mothers started out breastfeeding and were unable to continue due to physical problems and lack of support." Indeed, birth practices in this country have a major impact on breastfeeding rates.

However, I am not the one making it sound simple, as you put it. I was referring to Jack Newman and his thoughts on the matter. Is he oversimplifying do you think?
Ina May Gaskin refers to many studies in The Lancet, The BMJ, The European Journal of Cancer, The Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology, The Journal of Pediatrics - the list literally goes on and on. For those questioning the research into these matters, do you really think the lady hasn't done her research. She has dedicated her life to helping other women. Why would she make this stuff up?????

Lutyens · 14/04/2010 09:44

My father's mum bf 5 children and died of breast cancer at the age of 55. One of her breast-fed children (a little girl) died of leukemia at the age of 5.

Statistics means diddly squat when it comes down to individual level.

Babieseverywhere · 14/04/2010 09:59

I agree that there is an increase in health risks for formula fed babies in many of the areas you mentioned on this thread. Though in some of the areas the research is patchy at best, like the allergy risks.

But I do not agree that telling mothers these health risks will increase the breastfeeding rate. As most mothers already understand the health risks and had no choice in their feeding path.

Breastfeeding is not a guarantee for a perfect healthy child. (Looking at my beloved breastfed DS who suffers with eczema, hay-fever and catches every bug going...poor chuck)

Don't forget the health risks in the western world are minimized by our clean water and access to good free medical care, which limits the effects of several of the illness you list.

I agree with missmoopy, FF does not cause illness. It is more accurate to say...not breastfeeding increases the risk of illness or exclusively breastfed babies have the best health outcomes and that is something completely different.

IMO I don't breastfed for the health benefits but because I wanted to, it is free, it is the way babies expect to be fed and more importantly I was lucky enough to have the right support at the right time to enable me to learn this new skill. Many mothers are not as lucky

Banging on about health benefits to mothers who already know about them is pointless and a little rude.