Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

I heard something that upset me today...

185 replies

aurorec · 29/01/2009 15:34

There have been a few threads recently about breastfeeding and the pressure to stop.

Well today at my French baby and toddler group (I'm French based in London) there were 2 new mums with infants.
They were both FFing, one mentioned that she'd tried nursing for a couple of weeks but it was too tiring and inconvenient with a toddler to look after as well.
The other one just didn't want to nurse. She was fuming about the fact that for the whole of her pregnancy she was subjected to (in her words) 'propaganda' about BFing from her MW.

Propaganda... Oh and she was also outraged that her HV asked her why she'd decided not to nurse. I nearly butted in but they were new and the group could do with new member money so I kept my mouth shut

OP posts:
Lulumama · 30/01/2009 16:33

but VS, how??? i was but not surprised to hear recently a MW advising a baby in SCBU only needed to be put to the breast every 4 hours

how do we give the info for informed choice

a copy of the politics of breastfeeding in the boutny pack ??

fufflebum · 30/01/2009 16:36

There is little support both for BF and FF.....

Lulumama · 30/01/2009 16:37

that is a good point flufflebum.. look at the amount of posts asking about the safe way to make up bottles...

tiktok · 30/01/2009 16:38

fufflebum, you'll find that people like me (and VS) also work hard supporting mothers and trying to improve the info and support from HCPs as well.

Lulu - it's a training issue, as information alone will not work. This is slowly being addressed by the relevant organisations, but boy, it is slow.

madmouse · 30/01/2009 16:38

could it be that many hcp do not know how to properly support bf yet also feel they are not 'allowed' to support ff as it is officially the ''''''wrong'''''' thing to do?

Lulumama · 30/01/2009 16:39

that is true tiktok.. but in the meantime.. how do you help? what can be done?

where do we direct people for info?

VictorianSqualor · 30/01/2009 16:39

Get rid of the Bounty pack first
All HPs that will come into contact with pregnant or breastfeeding mothers trained in the both the basics of breastfeeding and how to signpost someone to the nearest breastfeeding support network.
No formula (or any baby food) advertising, just information.

There are loads of things that can be done, and those of us who can't afford to give up our free time to volunteer can sign the breastfeeding manifesto, email their MPsquestion their hospitals as to their baby friendly status etc.

tiktok · 30/01/2009 16:39

madmouse, I think you may be right. It's daft. They're just not doing their job

madmouse · 30/01/2009 16:44

it is daft because as pointed out earlier if there is ff to be done it must be done properly

VictorianSqualor · 30/01/2009 16:45

For general breastfeeding info/support lulu, it's probably best to direct someone to their local babycafe or the helplines.
For bottlefeeding, the FSA has an in depth sheet on how to make up bottles.

FWIW, as part of the BfN I'm not supposed to discuss bottle feeding with the people I deal with in my role. It is quite impossible at times, for example if someone comes to me with a question about mixed feeding what should I do? tell them about half but not all?

VictorianSqualor · 30/01/2009 16:46

breastfeeding manifesto, email your MP

charitygirl · 30/01/2009 16:57

Tiktok - how do you do it? Every post you write is sympathetic, accurate, temperate, wise. You genuinely support bf-ers without vilifying ff-ers.

Nothing useful to add but just to let you know you are appreciated! And I want to be just like you when i grow up (ignoring the fact that i am, ahem, 30)!

lostinnappies · 30/01/2009 16:58

VS

genuine question -

you mentioed gastroenteritis - DS1 had very bad d+v as a baby and was in hospital for checks could this have been down to ff?

VictorianSqualor · 30/01/2009 17:04

Possibly, or it may have happened even if he were breastfed.
We cannot be sure exactly what difference it would make to each child if they were breastfed. We can be sure the risks are higher i.e. more babies that are formula fed end up hospitalised through gastroenteritis than babies that are breastfed but as it is not as balck and white as breastfed=never ill and formula fed=ill then all we can say is it is possible.

tiktok · 30/01/2009 17:08

charitygirl: you tell me "Every post you write is sympathetic, accurate, temperate, wise."

This is not true, actually; though I am mostly accurate and sympathetic, I am sometimes intemperate and stupid

I am only 22, so imagine what I will be like when I am your age

charitygirl · 30/01/2009 17:15

22!!! Good god, I'm even more impressed.

Good on you - I've never posted asking for advice, but have eavesdropped on the advice you've given others and have found it tremendously helpful (Am 4 months in to EBF by first child).

tiktok · 30/01/2009 17:18

Hope you know I was joking about being 22.....

fufflebum · 30/01/2009 17:38

I just wish that we could be more supportive of each other. I know I keep saying it but it is not as simple as BF good and BF bad. I agree with what you say VictorianSqualor it is the word possible.

However, in my experience (as a FF) I went away from reading this thread and feeling bad. Will my children be ill, overweight, slow learners etc etc etc. Even though I do not believe it. I guess I am still disappointed I was not adequately supported to Bf after baby 1! Hence after baby no 2 when things were not working FF became inevitable....

charitygirl · 30/01/2009 18:05

hah! no...you see, i take everything you say as gospel!

ChairmumMiaow · 30/01/2009 18:14

Flufflebum - its hard to read that someone who did not get the support they needed to BF feels bad, We know there is not enough support out there, and it is very sad.

Although VS's wording was somewhat blunt she (AFAIK) stated facts that every mother should know. Also, we get a lot of mums here that tried to BF but ended up FF for various reasons. IRL however I meet many more that stopped (or never got started) because of outside pressures (from MILs etc) or because they really didn't think there was much of a difference. Those people, IMO, really need to know the bald facts first. I do feel bad if that upsets others, but I can't see a way to avoid it and don't see it as a reason to avoid the issue.

Also, nobody ever said a FF baby will get/be those things, Its all about increased statistical risk

StealthPo09IsHere · 30/01/2009 21:17

Lulumama:

and how do you make an informed choice?

....
the information has to be easy to find and open to all and accesible

how???

Was that all a lead up to a huge MN answer - because it seems as though MN is the answer to me!

lostinnappies
Please don't tell anyone I said this because I am the first to rubbish anecdotal evidence, but my DS is bf and I have never known a baby get so many D&V bugs. There was one point at which he had it on and off for 6 weeks. So there you go...

msdemented · 30/01/2009 21:50

Stealth - the answer is to include it in the school curriculum.

I was asked to bring my ds in to talk about babies to dd's reception class. I took in a small picture of him at the breast as well as things like his little hairbrush, a nappy, a sippy cup etc. The children asked me 'how does he eat' and I said that sometimes he had milk from a cup, and sometimes he drank milk from me and showed them the picture (it was very discrete I'd hasten to say!). You could see some children in the class had no idea what on earth breastfeeding was. Very sad.

Anyway, sorry - blathering as usual. Point being, introduce it into the primary curriculum and take it all the way through. In secondary they could learn about bf as part of reproduction and in PSHE, and they could look at formula advertising as part of English and Media studies! I think BabyMilkAction do a very good study pack for this.

The main thing is to introduce it before they get pregnant!

StealthPo09IsHere · 30/01/2009 21:56

I agree but I do think the internet is another answer. Although that does tailor it to a certain section of mums and exclude others I suppose. However the NHS is pushing it for manage-your-own-health type stuff so it fits with that.

TinkerBellesMumandFiFi2 · 31/01/2009 00:40

I think one thing that isn't taken into consideration when people say "you can't tell who was bf and who was ff" is how someone was bf. That sounds daft right? You put them on the breast they feed. But how long was the baby bf for? When were they weaned onto solids? etc. I've heard people say "I was bf but I suffer badly from xyz" and I've asked when they were weaned, what a surprise six weeks and they were off the breast around the same time.

I planned on exclusive breastfeeding, I banned bottles from my house as I didn't want anything to tempt me when times were hard. My daughter was born at 31 weeks though and I didn't have the supply to support her for a long time so she had formula through her tube for the first 17 days. At three months she stopped growing (fine if you are looking at a prem-bf chart but not if you are looking in a red book!) and my HV made me give formula top ups, it took until she was almost ready for solids to wean her off of the formula. So my 6 months exclusive bf ended up as 2 months. I can see that my HV is heading that way again and I'm so glad that I'm a. stronger and better educated and b. moving GP! I do feel very guilty about her asthma (although not just from the food side) but OTOH I know that her attacks would have been worse if ff, if not only for the fact that often (even at the age of 2) BM is the only thing we have managed to get into her during an attack which can last days and it can take a week till she is through it.

My brother's eldest two children aren't his and were ff. When she got pregnant with my brother's first biological child my family tried to convince her to bf, she didn't and has always been very anti-breast. When my turn came around I had to put up with comments from her ("why not give her a bottle because then you can come out with me" for example) all the time but also my family won't hear me talk about how wonderful breastfeeding is

Lulu, special care babies do seem to be given milk every four hours even if BF, I think it's because they prefer them to be sleeping more. I know until Tink was closer to term she did sleep longer and fed further apart.

VS, on the FB group "Hey Facebook, breastfeeding is not obscene" someone is looking for opinions on the Bounty Pack. I thought of you when I saw the post.

Qally · 31/01/2009 02:42

I had so many people tell me to bf - none gave me the medical info on why, and none actually showed me how to latch, as opposed to endless focus on positioning. And nobody twigged that he was so bloody tongue-tied - even after a first failed cut - that he physically couldn't bf, until my GP referred me to a stellar HV in another area, who saw me as a favour to my GP and packed me off to Southampton, to a specialist.

If the NHS spent half as much money on training MW and HV in latching on well/diagnosing physical problems/advising sensibly as they do on poster campaigns and scales, and gave women a one-page, two paragraph resume of WHY breastmilk is so amazing, we might have higher success rates.