Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

was this a stupid thing to say?

444 replies

robinrednomorenowemptybreasts · 30/03/2008 21:48

my cousins just had her third baby, baby is a week old, when talking to my mum after mum had been to visit, mum said the baby was going every three hours, and that she got to have a cuddle after the baby had been fed.

when mum said the baby was being bottlefed, i said oh thats a shame, mum got quite annoyed with me.
i would not of said that to my cousin or aunt or anything.
and now im wondering if i was out of order saying that.
please be honest, i won't mind if you say i was, i just thought it a shame

OP posts:
hoppybird · 01/04/2008 16:51

Mothers are offered a dose of vitamin K to be given to their baby soon after birth, which is a single injection of nutrients which protect from a rare condition. Colostrum, too, can be considered to be a single dose of nutrients, uniquely designed for the new baby to line the digestive system in preparation for recieving milk, boost immunity, and help to easily clear out meconium. You can't get that from ff and it's an immediately practical benefit of bf, swmum, which you could perhaps consider even if you ff the rest of the time. It does give you the chance to "suck it and see" - there's no guarantee how we'll feel and react when baby actually arrives, just as there's no guarantee your birth plan will be followed to the letter, if at all.

Though as BabiesEverywhere says, there's always the option of mixed feeding.

swmum, you come across as a really nice, intelligent person, with loads of patience - you have the makings of being a great mum, however you choose to feed your LO!

StealthPolarBear · 01/04/2008 16:54

Lots of people feel guilty for ff, just look at the many posts in this topic. It doesn't mean that's right, but it seems as though parenting is a big guilt trip!

colacubes, you are right that I haven't researched all the subjects you mention and I'm sure I'm 'guilty' on many, if not all of them, but breastfeeding for me is not a 'cause' to be taken on, it is just the natural way to feed my son.

StealthPolarBear · 01/04/2008 16:55

And for those other topics I wouldn't argue with many respected scientific findings - I would concur that I am wrong but maintain that it's my choice.

colacubes · 01/04/2008 17:02

My point stealth regarding Madames guilt post is that How would she know that op's mum felt guilt? It seems a natural assumption that ff = guilt or failings or ignorance, very condescending assumptions I feel.

StealthPolarBear · 01/04/2008 17:10

Yes, fair enough, she was speculating. A lot of ff mums say they feel guilty though, so it's probably one of the most likely reasons.

I am getting a bit as to why robin is starting all these, she does seem to want to start a few fights this week.

mummyhill · 01/04/2008 17:10

A friend told me that they breastfed as it meant that they could actually sit down and stop racing round after kids and husband.

colacubes · 01/04/2008 17:44

oh now there's a thought! I haven't come across robin before, but will have to reserve comment as I don't know her, but I hear you stealth, will bare that in mind.

Sabire · 01/04/2008 18:43

"I can only assume you all live in caves, use no chemicals, processed foods, dont drive, dont fly, dont use mobile phones, plastic bags, swim in the sea, dont injection your children with synthetic chemicals, because if you truly are all the things you say you are regarding science and its guidance on these matters, I really cant see how I could argue, but your not are you, you just choose your cause and ignore the others."

I haven't got the time to read all the research on all the possible risks to my children inherent in living in this polluted world. And the research on these things is sometimes conflicting or inconclusive.

That said - if all the major health bodies in the developed world, like the WHO, the NHS, the Royal College of Midwives, the American Academy of Pediatrics and UNICEF advised that, say, children shouldn't use mobiles because they tripled the chance of them ending up in hospital - and made this recommendation on the basis of a thorough review of thousands of studies going back over a decade.... well, then I'd be pretty strongly persuaded to go with it.

You seem to have overlooked in your arguments about the persuasiveness of the research evidence on the risks of artificial feeding, that all the major health bodies in the world have had teams of highly qualified scientists pouring over the evidence for years before making their recommendations.

They don't cherry pick one or two studies - they examine hundreds - thousands even.

As an individual it's almost impossible to make sense of the avalanche of health research that's published on a daily basis - but with something like breastfeeding - well it's much simpler because the large organisations have done much of the work for us. Yes we can read individual papers - but what we really need is an overview - and that's what we get through the recommendations made by organisations like the WHO and the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Choosing to breastfeed your baby is one of the simplest and most effective things you can do to improve their health and development in the short, medium and long term. Later it becomes so much more difficult. I struggle to get my children to eat as well as I'd like now they're a bit older, but I do my best. I look back on their babyhood and think - that's the ONLY time in your life when it's relatively simple to give them the absolute best in terms of nutrition; once you've got breastfeeding established it requires no thought or planning on your part - unlike day to day shopping and cooking once they're on solids.

SWmum - Can I just throw one other thing for you to consider before you make a decision either way. No one else has mentioned it on this list but it's something that I've thought about a lot.

It's about a quality of life issue - the fact that a baby who is breastfed is being given fresh food every day, that varies in terms of its tastes and consistency. A ff baby is fed on food that is highly processed, that always tastes the same, and can in no way be described as 'fresh' (unless you're the sort of person who'd also describe powdered mash potato - a la Delia Smith as 'fresh'!). It wouldn't occur to me to feed my older children soley on a diet that consisted of reconstituted, freeze dried anything, so why would I want do this for my baby? Maybe it's because I'm a bit of a foodie, but I hate the idea of my baby not having fresh milk when it's the sole source of nutrition in their diet for months on end. Hope you're not offended by me pointing this out but I think it needs to be said - this issue isn't just about what YOU have to do - it's about what your baby will be eating EVERY DAY for months on end.

swmum · 01/04/2008 18:49

Thanks hoppybird that's a really nice thing for you to say. I looked at your profile by the way and your kids are so cute! I'm hoping for a similarly gorgeous one - or it will be dh's fault of course!
Cola you are right we shouldn't feel guilty it's just that society makes us feel that way - or at least tries to. And I think you make a very vaild point about not living in a bubble and that we are exposed - as are our children to a range of risks every day. That's sort of what I was trying to say way back about the nasties in cosmetics etc.
I think there are clearly - as you say - much worse things that your kids can be effected by than ff. But then that is our view and other mums think differently.
None of us are perfect all of the time. Some times we will let them have a kit kat instead of an apple or let them watch cartoons just for a bit of peace and quiet. We all make a huge mixture of choices all the time about what will be best for our kids and those choices are driven by so many factors.
Lets not get too annoyed with each other because ultimately - bf or ff - we are all on the same side. We are all (we I'm not yet but soon to be) juggling the many demands of motherhood and we all know that it's not always easy.
All we can do is our best and as long as we truely believe we are doing that - no matter what that is - we are serving our children well.

verylittlecarrot · 01/04/2008 19:34

I take all sorts of risks that I probably shouldn't. I co-sleep (which is very safe if you follow precautions), BUT my baby is under my duvet with me (which is definitely against the guidelines). I do it because it works for me. But I don't go around saying that it's harmless, or reassuring everyone else that it's OK for them to do it too. I don't ignore the research, I understand the risks, and yes - I take them.

But at least I'm honest about it. I don't go telling everyone that the risks don't exist to make myself feel better.

Cola, I couldn't give a flying ferret about your feeding choice. I don't condemn formula feeding.

You can state that I do as much as you like, but it won't make it true. Next time you want to chuck out a brainless accusation like that, I think I'll respond accordingly back to you with an equally untrue statement about you. Fair enough?

Tell you what though, I do condemn whoever awarded a science degree to someone who hasn't the sense to understand that if A > B, then B < A.

verylittlecarrot · 01/04/2008 19:35

The earth is ROUND!

ROUND I tell you!!!!!!!

verylittlecarrot · 01/04/2008 19:36

By StealthPolarBear on Tue 01-Apr-08 16:07:11
tiktok, give up. There's no point trying to construct your argument out of facts.

I nominate this for mumsnet quote of the week. Love you, Stealthy...

DoodleToYou · 01/04/2008 19:37

Message withdrawn

verylittlecarrot · 01/04/2008 19:45

swmum
what did you make of the research paper I posted earlier on, the one the BBC mis-reported?

kiskideesameanoldmother · 01/04/2008 19:47

thanks for that clarification vlc, I had a good email from a list-serv saying exactly what you said but for the life of me couldn't remember the details.

harpsichordcarrier · 01/04/2008 19:48

that was very interesting vlc.
I think the terrible misreporting of medical and scientific research in the media is responsible for a great deal of trouble.
journalists should have to provide links and proper references to research, and space for a right of reply to avoid the kind of shoddy reporting in that case

pooka · 01/04/2008 19:52

Actually - think sabire makes a very good point about the taste and variety of tastes in breastmilk, as well as the difference between processed dried milk and fresh milk. And not a point I'd thought about a great deal, but one that Swmum raised in discussing her own food choices i.e. organic non-processed foods.

verylittlecarrot · 01/04/2008 20:11

I was musing about starting a sciency bf thread, for people to share links to research, and debate the worth or the construction of the studies. Somewhere to find a lot of useful references in one place.

NOT to discuss choices or preferences, or pass judgement on people.

Is anyone else geeky enough to find this useful?

Caz10 · 01/04/2008 20:18

yes!! i am a geek, hand up!

(also - crash - sorry - VLC how is baby carrot?! is she big veg now?!)

kayzisbroody · 01/04/2008 20:19

OMG I am crazy. I just read Sabire's post and I thought who the hell is Delia Smith???

Im going to go and sit in a dark room now.

laughalot · 01/04/2008 20:22

Some people dont get the support at breastfeeding giving a child a bottle isnt going to kill them both mine are alive and kicking.

verylittlecarrot · 01/04/2008 20:22

thanks Caz! She's great, bit of a hiatus in the weight gain following a sicky uppy bug, but recovering...she's nearly 14lb I think, although I haven't weighed her in a while. I should update the acorn thread soon.

I'll have a think about that thread then.

laughalot · 01/04/2008 20:24

Oh and one more thing the mother of the year award goes to MOONDOG because she breastfeed. Shit mother of the year goes to the rest of the ff

verylittlecarrot · 01/04/2008 20:25

That's nice, laughalot. Glad your two are healthy. I was bottlefed too and am alive and kicking too. Although a little tired today.

verylittlecarrot · 01/04/2008 20:27

crossed posts with you, laughalot. You shouldn't be so judgemental of ff mothers though. Not nice to call them 'shit'.