was this a stupid thing to say?

[robinrednomorenowemptybreasts]

my cousins just had her third baby, baby is a week old, when talking to my mum after mum had been to visit, mum said the baby was going every three hours, and that she got to have a cuddle after the baby had been fed.

when mum said the baby was being bottlefed, i said oh thats a shame, mum got quite annoyed with me.
i would not of said that to my cousin or aunt or anything.
and now im wondering if i was out of order saying that.
please be honest, i won't mind if you say i was, i just thought it a shame

Kayzi, nobody on this thread thinks you're a bad mum for ff. Nobody. Nobody. Nobody. Nobody.

In fact I think it's truly superb that you are intending to have another go after a bad experience. I think that makes you an incredible mum.

No one has said that there is proof ff babies do not bond with their mothers.

Where has that come from?

And swmum, do you mean, maybe, crossing the road has risks, but we accept the risks in order to get on with our lives? So you accept the risks of formula feeding, in order to get on with your life....that's ok, I have no problem with anyone deciding that's what they want to do.

I don't know what you mean by 'drastic' risks...I mean, crossing the road and being run over by a bus is 'drastic' for the victim, and as ff increases the risks of some pretty 'drastic' conditions, as well as the more minor ones, your analogy still holds.

If you really think you would risk low self-esteem, exhaustion and PND by breastfeeding then of course you are right to consider the alternative. There is no evidence that these conditions are more common in breastfeeding women, and some evidence to the contrary (especially for the exhaustion one, and PND) though I don't know if anyone has looked at self-esteem...I would think it would be very difficult to link breastfeeding per se with low self-esteem, as long as bf was going well.

"I don't think the risks of ff are nearly as drastic as many make them out to be"

I'm not sure that anyone has made them out to be 'drastic'.

I think it's down to the individual how they perceive these risks.

If we all know what the research says then we can make up our own minds how we feel about it.

Having read the literature I personally feel that the risks are too varied and too significant to expose my child to if it's within my ability not to.

You might read the same information and feel perfectly comfortable about it - we all perceive risk differently and that's fine.

What I do object to is people dissing the literature when it's clear they have no knowledge of what it actually says.

Or dissing those of us whose decisions are influenced by the medical research into infant feeding, and who want to discuss it, describing us as 'scaremongering' or 'judgemental'.

lc, get of your high horse, before you fall.

I understand science, as stated, I understand a scientific paper, I can read it with knowledge, I am well within my rights to say as I feel, not as you would like me to, I am not irresponsible, and am amussed that you are becoming increasingly upset with my scientific background.

Again I will re quote, this is my choice, it is an alternative to bf, I do not believe it is harmful to my child, I have read and understood and this is my conclusion, you do understand that dont you lc, because at the mo you keep missing the point.

Oh thanks very much.

I had some very hurtful comments in my direction when we were out in public when either me or dh was feeding him.

I had pethedine in labour which I have since found out that could have caused ds to be sleepy and he wouldn't latch on. The nurse in the hospital was horrible. She offered no help, just kept talking on the ward phone to someone planning their night out, we didnt take any bottles or formula to the hospital, she wouldn't let us have a bottle of milk to feed ds. In the end another woman in the ward who had just given birth too gave us one of her babies bottles so we could feed him.

HV weren't much better they just said keep trying you'll get the hang of it. I never did. I've since been told by the new HV that he may have got used to the bottle and thats why he didn't latch on when I tried.

For the record, of course ff babies bond with their mothers!! Just as dads of breastfeeding babies bond with their babies....bonding has less to do with the milk, and more to do with the delivery system. Responsive, loving, close, comforting and communicative feeding can be done with a bottle and a breast and nothing I or anyone else has said is different from that. Breastfeeding makes it easier to be truly responsive (when bf is going well, natch...)

Kayzisbroody - hope you manage to get better support next time. Sounds like you, like so many mothers, were let down by inadequate support early on.
Good luck.

God that 'Oh thanks very much' sounds sarcastic Oooops Sorry VLC I didn't mean it too sound like that.

I meant thanks very much for what you said.

Its strange how things change. I was ff as thats what my mum was told 22 years ago when I was born.

Cola

You seem incapable of answering my points. And you are hopelessly changing your own.

Now formula is not harmful "to your child".

That's great. Lucky old you.

But it is going to be harmful to someone elses child. There are millions of people's children out there, and some of them WILL be harmed by formula.

Some people care about that. And wish they could do something about it. You clearly don't, in which case why bother discussing other people's choices on a public forum?

I don't believe you've read a single scientific paper on the risks of formula.

kayzi, I hope you'll find tons of really good advice and support on MN, whetever happens with feeding your new baby. There should be no judgement of you, whether you bf or not. The knowledge and experience here is astounding, and I've encountered some of the warmest, kindest people ever here.

I truly wish you the very best of luck.

Thanks again.

I was never going to try bf at all until about half way through my pregnancy and I thought about it a bit more. I wish it had worked out but ds is a very happy and content little boy so I know he is ok.

you are not discussing my choice, you are condemning it!

as for not caring about millions of children that will be harmed for ff, please, where are they all, ff adults are here now, I dont see them dropping like flies.

You seem to have a messiah complex with that last post, although you are missing the point again, this is a choice, you have no control over it, as for my reading, or lack of scientific reading, believe what you like, thats your issue not mine.

Once again, I'm not condemning your choice.
I haven't missed your point. (It's your choice, your baby etc.)
I don't have a messiah complex.
I'm not on my high horse. In fact I'm allergic to horses.
And the ff children harmed by ff that you want to know the wherabouts of?

They are documented in the scientific studies.

That you haven't read.

No need to be rude to me, Cola. I keep answering your questions. If you don't want to answer mine we'll have to draw our own conclusions.

My psychology degree appeared to demand different approaches to analytical thought from yours. Interesting.

Cola I agree with your view. You strike me as a very intelligent well rounded mum who made the right choices for her children. Good for you. If others don't agree then so be it. At least they didn't call you a 'flat earther'! Or maybe that was directed at you too - who knows?! Who cares?!
I also think in time to come other mums who feel as we do will read this thread and feel they are not alone and encouraged to hear our views. Because even though they might not be popularly held on MN they are in the real world.

swmum
nobody has actually called YOU a flat earther.

the name calling has been from cola, and directed at me.

I must admit that - despite some of the comments from those flying-in-the-face-of-science - I have found this thread really informative.

I read ridiculous amounts before DS was born and decided to bf my babe. It was an absolute bitch in the beginning for all the usual reasons (no latching, no support, no practical instruction on how to do it) but DS and I persevered and we got there in the end. Hurrah!

But my decision to do it was pretty much based on the fact that bm was the best source of nutrition and I had NO idea that formula was actually positively bad.

Sabire/Tiktok (amongst others) - thank you for your (imo measured and balanced) posts. All this new information leads me to ask another question but I will start a new thread to avoid hijacking this one. (Although it does seem we have come quite far from the OP ...!)

I need to sign off for a while now. Tata all.

littlecarrot, I was just thinking the same thing in regards to the yawning.

I have never made this about science, I made it about my choice, and yes I have read papers on both ff and bf, as I have on contributing factors on many other issues, but I made my own conclusion on the evidence at hand, IT WAS MY CHOICE.

Am now very bored and can only conclude, that this is like talking to a goldfish, bloody useless.

"FF adults are here" and many of them suffer from the risks of formula.

I was FF, I suffered from endless ear infections as a young child, have bad allergies and struggle with my weight. My two younger siblings were both breastfed and shared my upbringing in every other way including healthy diet etc, do not have these issues.

Even if a FF adult is healthy in every way that is despite the formula start in life not because of it. Just like you can see healthy smokers, that is despite the smoking. No one will use the fact that millions of smokers are walking around today health, that smoking has no risks

No one will use the fact that millions of smokers are walking around today currently healthly, that smoking has no risks

I cant see why people cant put their point across without being rude.

Cola, I am sorry but your posts come across as being very rude. I am also a fellow ff so its not because of how you feed your dc.

I have never read any papers, didnt know anything about ff being bad but everything is bad for someone in the world I suppose. I am allergic to red wine where as VLC(sorry to use you as an example) may love the stuff etc!!

cola

" I do not believe it is harmful to my child"

Do you believe breastfeeding has benefits?

Fine Cola. But since at least some of the rest of the posters want to discuss science and evidence and facts, rather than "colacube's personal choice" will you let them get on with it?

You talk to yourself about Your Choice, and we'll talk about evidence, and facts and so on.

Don't join in the discussion on science, and don't make sweeping untrue statements, if all you want to talk about is Your Choice, it's that simple.

And try to refrain from being personally insulting. It's not nice.

I'm really off now.

vlc off to do some rl stuff or off as you're fed up?

Both, stealth!