hhhm, so Vicki Scott thinks we need to pump and dump while having a drink?

[5goldrings4MONKEYBIRDs]

see Xmas tips link Yeah, if you're boozing for england but oculd it perhaps be a slight advert for Avent products here rather than fully correct BF advice? i think one or two drinks is usually OK, especially if you have them straight after feeding as we've said many times on this list...

I know MN has gotta have an income from somewhere but adverts disguised as advice aren't helping anyone. or is it just me?

Excellent post Kiskidee.
Top hole!
Come back soon,am missing you already.

Vicki,

Thanks for your detailed reply. I won't comment on the broader issues right now, but as I posted the original mail re: the pump and dump advice, I'm glad to see you are suggesting this is for comfort/mastitis protection, since as Tiktok has pointed out many many times on this list, P&D doesn't actually reduce the alcohol content of milk since the blood supply constantly supplies is while it is being made.

So your advice could, without further elaboration, be easily misunderstood by someone who didn't really understand how BF works...

Say someone did have lots to drink and then read P&D. They might quite easily believe that, Oh I can just do it and then feed my baby straight after since all the alcohol was removed, IYSWIM. In fact, that advice might encourage women to drink more than they should and, unwittingly, to get more alcohol into their baby than the moderation or none at all approach? If they really wanted to be sure no alcohol at all got into their milk they'd have to make the same assessment about the time taken for alcohol to leave the bloodstream as someone who wasn't pumping and dumping (ie hours per unit from last drink etc)

And no, actually - though I'm no expert either - I don't think a woman is at risk from mastitis (an infection) if she doesn't feed for 8 hours. At most, most women are likely to be a bit engorged, easily relieved by feeding; a few who are prone are more at risk of a blocked duct; and a very very few of those might be at risk of mastitis if it isn't possible to clear the engorgement or block which it almost IS possible to do without any further treatment (see www.drjacknewman.com for fairly well researched ideas on this...)

Monkeybird

Vicki, as I said before, you sound a nice, well-meaning professional person trying to earn a living, and I'd just reiterate not to take any of this personally. It is important for us to know if you are being paid (we won't ask how much) because it stretches belief to think you are doing it for free.

You are confusing on the alcohol advice. You cannot use what you or what you think the majority of mothers would want (ie no alcohol in the breastmilk) and then not acknowledge this as opinion and personal preference only in the tips section. Pumping and dumping will not ensure no alcohol in the breastmilk any more quickly than simply letting the body deal with it, and I don;t see you have understood this. To introduce the possibility of mastitis (not even mentioned in your original tips) is what the lawyers would call post-hoc rationalisation

Monkey's right, too - most mothers would feel no more than somewhat engorged and uncomfortable. Expressing might be needed by some mums for their own comfort, but this is not what you said!

How about rewriting the tip, to explain the physiology of it all, and to point out that expressing might be a good idea for the mother's own comfort and preference?

Vicki, I think you're very nice.

But I don't just want nice from an expert. I want them to know more than me.

I agree with what's been posted since your last post.

And I'd like to know if Avent are paying you as well, please, because it affects the way your advice is written and viewed - it has to.

Seems to me that mnetters prefer to chose their own experts

Wonderful posts ladies.

Vicki, please do come back and talk to us.

Great posts

Just a qick question for Mumsnet HQ...
If the Philip Avent contract runs out in December, does that mean the microsite with the dubious facts will also be taken down ?

VS? MNHQ?

Hi folks,
The microsite only lasts the length of the campaign. In her post Vicki said she'll log in early next week I think.

Surely advice can be taken on board or not - we are all intelligent (i think) women on here. Her advice is obviously linked to the fact that she works for Avent so in light of this I read it with a pinch of salt and
reading through this thread the feeling is very much that people are picking her apart personally and making light of any experience/qualifications she has!

If it was that transparent, no-one would have a problem. If the advice was 100% spot on, again, no-one would have a problem.

Fascinating first post of yours though.

but indefence, how does someone who knows nothing to very little about bf knows which bits is advertising hype, which bits is outdated and dubious information and whihc bits are spot on?

as the person before me has politely hinted, (i'm not that diplomatic) are you a namechanger or registered recently with a specific motive in mind.

QUOTE making light of any experience/qualifications she has

Several posters myself included have asked for details of the breastfeeding qualifications that Vicky has. Sadly we have not been answered, except in a vague open ended way.

So how can we 'make light' of the qualifications we don't know she has ?

Sadly a couple of the points that Vicky (who we all agree is a likable and friendly person and I hope is not taking this thread personally) made are inaccurate, outdated or wrong.

Now if I, an unqualified nursing SAH mother, knows these facts are not to be trusted, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the advice which has been given out during the 'Philip Avent' campaign.

'Philip Avent', if someone is reading this thread. If you want more positive exposure on mumsnet, run proper adverts which are clear adverts not mock adverts pretending to be 'advice'

Or consider running a regular competition on the mumsnet site giving away various products, it is another good way of raising your profile on this site (in a good way)

HTH

Have registered recently but changed my name for the post - i haven't got any specific motives in mind!

I'm not vicky in disguise btw!

it was just a feeling I got from reading the threads that people were gunning for her...but in retrospect i do see the point that someone who knows little about bf could possibly take her advice as gospel without doing further research.