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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

hhhm, so Vicki Scott thinks we need to pump and dump while having a drink?

214 replies

5goldrings4MONKEYBIRDs · 06/12/2007 20:39

see Xmas tips link Yeah, if you're boozing for england but oculd it perhaps be a slight advert for Avent products here rather than fully correct BF advice? i think one or two drinks is usually OK, especially if you have them straight after feeding as we've said many times on this list...

I know MN has gotta have an income from somewhere but adverts disguised as advice aren't helping anyone. or is it just me?

OP posts:
KITTYmaspudding · 09/12/2007 11:23

yes prufrock, but we are not advertised as "experts" and MN policy stuff clearly says that stuff we talk about should be taken as advice only.

NineBabiesDancing · 09/12/2007 11:29

Plus if we mums write crap dubious advice, other posters can and will, correct that poor advice.

Where as the micro site 'facts' can not be challenged in situ. Visitors to that page, may never visit the forum and therefore believe the advert is to be followed to the letter, after all she is an expert

justme27 · 09/12/2007 11:45

Just wanted to say that as I saw this thread I was expressing after a night out where I had 2 glasses of wine and 1.5 cocktails (last one at about midnight) and was debating whether to dump the milk. Don't feel at all tipsy now.

I'm a first time mum and it took me until last night to stop feeling guilty enough to have a few drinks thinking I could pump and dump 'offending milk' in the morning.

I'm now going to keep it and feed dd when she comes back from her grans.

I love MN :-)

x

KITTYmaspudding · 09/12/2007 13:11

Well, we just have to hope that the majority of Mnetters know to listen to the real experts

JustineMumsnet · 10/12/2007 14:18

Hi all,
Many thanks for raising the issue of alchohol and breast milk. As someone who dumped quite a few precious ounces of EBM down the sinks at UCH, because I thought I'd had one too many Saki for my premmie twins - it sure was news to me (and something I wish I'd known before).

Anyway we'll pass this onto Vicki Scott and I'm sure she'll be back to clarify and if necessary modify her advice accordingly.

On the issue of whether we should have experts on MN at all, it is something we've done for a bit. Over the years we've had quite a few expert online chats and more often than not they've been promoting something, whether it be their books eg Annabel Karmel and Tanya Byron, or some corporate association - eg Angela Buttolph the fabby style woman who was sponsored by a bank. We don't see that it necessarily devalues the great advice you can get from Mumsnetters or the people who give it - just a bit of additional input.

Clearly it's important than any advice which is labelled as expert is accurate, particularly in an area such as breastfeeding. So as said we'll put it to Avent and Vicki Scott and get back to you.

Thanks,
M Towers

moondog · 10/12/2007 16:09

Oh come on Justine!!!!

'We don't see that it necessarily devalues the great advice you can get from Mumsnetters or the people who give it - just a bit of additional input.'

I suspect you know that it is

a.)Complete shit
b.) An insult to the average Mumsnetter
c.) Totally unnecessary

However,obviously you have to keep your sponsors happy.
Flogging stuff is fine. Dressing up 'infomercials' as impartial advice is not.

PrisonerCellBlockAitch · 10/12/2007 16:37

dunno though justine, all the people you've mentioned are actually 'experts' in their own field, at least having written on the subject etc. and in a live chat we have the opportunity to disagree with them (do bring AK back, i'd love to chat with her).
has the ebm advice been changed or modified? is it going to be or must it stand because that's some guideline? doesn't that owe more to Philips covering their arses against getting sued than actual expert advice?
surely if it's a philips expert we're showcasing them it's mrs philips we want to hear from, not a hired mouthpiece? because tbvh that's all VS seems to be, at least in the context of this site.
and the reason i think it does devalue the site (much as i know you don't want to agree with me) is that she keeps Getting Things Wrong and we have new people coming onto MN who think that because it's a micro-site that it is endorsed by you at MNHQ which is just .
and no reason for you to know about the pump and dump thing (although it's been mentioned here often) but it's essential that Vicki Scott knows more than us, otherwise what is the point of her?

JustineMumsnet · 10/12/2007 18:03

Erm... well no, Moondog, have to disagree with you there. As a rule we try to avoid saying stuff that we think is either complete shit, or an insult to Mumsnetters or unnecessary. Sponsors or no sponsors.

Aitch - I don't believe we "endorse" our advertisers as it happens. There are a few companies which we don't allow airspace to because either we or you (or both) are very strongly against what they do or how they do it. For others we simply allow them airspace. That's how I see it anyway. Taking a swift look at our pages right now I don't think anyone would suggst we are endorsing BT broadband or hotels.com or virgin media or anchor butter (not that we've anything against them of course ).

And Vicki Scott did have an online chat and folks had the chance to question her and she answered their questions pretty thoroughly as I recall. As said we've raised the point about alcohol and EBM and I'm sure she will be back to either explain her stance or to modify it if she feels she should. And I'm sure no "expert" (other than breastfeeding 4 including premmie twins of course ) but from where I'm sitting I don't think it's fair to say she "keeps getting it wrong" either.

On breastmilk storage she followed Unicef advice - presumably the alcohol recommendation is as you say following some other medical advice (we'll see when she comes back). You and others may think that advice is tosh but most people would say Unicef is a valid source at least. And plenty of her other advice on her page is very useful.

We agree, as said earlier, that it is not a good idea for us to carry any information which is misleading, so we are always keen to pass on objections, ask for clarifications etc. and are very happy to continue to do so with regard to any ads or promotions that we run. Again - thanks for your input in this regard.

Best,
MNHQ

tiktok · 10/12/2007 18:30

Fair enough, Justine, and as for storage times for ebm, there is no real consensus on this....and she might as well use Unicef's guidance as anyone else's.

The alcohol in breastmilk is a different matter. I will wait to see what she says on this one, as she really does have it wrong - and she can of course withdraw what she says (this being the web where you can just 'disappear' things!) and correct it.

moondog · 10/12/2007 18:31

Y'ss even the sceptics amongst us are waiting for Vikki's latest missive with bated breath.
And who says advertising doesn't work?

JustineMumsnet · 10/12/2007 18:52

Sceptical - you Moondog ?

moondog · 10/12/2007 18:59

Angelic

VVVExcitedAboutChristmasQV · 10/12/2007 19:14

So, Justine, for those of us who missed the live chat - can you clarify - or ask Vicki Scott to clarify exactly what a "baby feeding and wellbeing advisor to Phillips Avent" actually involves/means?

Because, for those MNers who like things in plain English - it isn't very clear that she is actually on their payroll, and what qualifies her as an advisor in this particular area. "Vicki has been working with mothers and babies across many aspects of baby care for almost 20 years, she is also mum to 23 month old Poppy." doesnt cut it with me, I'm afraid.

The 'sponsored' page has already been referred to as "the Avent part of the site". This, by your own assertion - is NOT correct. But clearly people are reading it this way, and this is my objection.

I dont want Mumsnet - particularly the infant feeding topic - the bit I contribute to (not as much as tiktok and hunker and moondog), to be confused with this person, who as far as I can tell is just the organ-grinder's monkey (no offence to Vicki Scott - I'm sure she's a lovely lady), or indeed the organ grinder - Phillips Avent.

moondog · 10/12/2007 19:31

You go VVVQ!!

moondog · 10/12/2007 19:32

'wellbeing advisor' is the bit that really sticks in my craw

PrisonerCellBlockAitch · 10/12/2007 21:19

just to be clear, Justine, i don't think that you endorse all your advertisers either, that would be ridiculous. i didn't actually say that, though. my concern is that, as i said in my post 'we have new people coming onto MN who think that because it's a micro-site that it is endorsed by you at MNHQ which is just .' it's already happened, and it's a bit cringey when she's not right or at least is picking just one arbitrary guideline, iykwim?

she could have said 'well the DoH says x and Unicef says Y but a test on bacteria in EBM sitting out on a table top showed that it had less bacteria after four hours than before so that's interesting too'.

this is MN, the thinking persons' parenting site, i don't just want a regurgitation of a guideline i can look up myself, from an 'expert' i'm looking for someone who can interpret the guidelines and latest research for us in an intelligent and incisive manner. like tiktok, for example.

and i don't think kiskidee was that happy with her answers in the webchat, tbh, and i personally didn't see anything that people wouldn't have got from the main site. nor was it particularly well-attended.

i'm all for you advertising here, you're a business. and i've posted before to say that you draw what i think is a very fair ethical line with it. but this microsite thing, it is what moony says, it's advertising pretending to be something other, and it's a bit whiffy to say the least.

Avent should be on their best behaviour if they're marketing on MN, we'll buy your better mousetrap if it is a better one, but the whole point of this place is that we wait until one of us recommends it first. i give you Franny's single-handed (literally) pioneering of the mooncup. now, you wouldn't think that she is just an imaginary MNing character dreamt up at MooncupHQ... but that's proper marketing for you. i hope PhilipsHQ are reading.

AwayInAMunker · 10/12/2007 21:23

Avent can pay me squillions and I'll sell them a bazillion breastpumps

Is VS being paid by Avent?

VVVExcitedAboutChristmasQV · 10/12/2007 21:27

Oh, I'll vouch for their breastpumps, and breast shells too. Quite happily. They were fab for me, but, that's not the point here.

So, is she employed by Phillips Avent then?

moondog · 10/12/2007 21:28

yES,i WAS UNDER CLEAR IMPRESSION vs PAID BY aVENT.

She may be like Betty Crock-o-shit Crocker though. That is, nothing more than an ad man's domestic fantasy.

PrisonerCellBlockAitch · 10/12/2007 21:43

well i was going to cut and paste from the live webchat, there was a bit where i tried to explain how you can't be employed by a company and remain truly independent, but i can't find it.
if you click on the link above it takes you to a bunch of prepped answers on feeding etc, just the stuff that was there before. you know she also said that she wouldn't have done BLW because she couldn't stand the mess, don't you?! i mean really...

but yes, anyway... employed by a big company wot pays her money but completely independent.

AwayInAMunker · 10/12/2007 21:46

Live webchat thread here, Aitch

moondog · 10/12/2007 21:53

Well that live chat was a load of shite and as clear as mud.
She says she isn't employed by Avent.So what the hell is she doing then by being present in their guff?
I take it she just does it for fun...

PrisonerCellBlockAitch · 10/12/2007 22:04

didn't she say elsewhere that she'd turned down paying work before because of ethical issues? presumably in avent's case, no ethical issues so she's getting paid?

moondog · 10/12/2007 22:05

It stinks eh????

PrisonerCellBlockAitch · 10/12/2007 22:12

well see i don't really care about VS per se, Moony, she's probably doing a good job both for the company she works for and the mums who she sees individually. i just think this 'expert' on MN thing is bogus when what she is is an 'advertising tool', part of Avent's 2007 marketing mix and that's all.

it's disappointing to see that Philips looked at all of us on MN and thought 'yeah, they'll buy from 'Vicki''. because by and large we come here, as i think Pruni said a while back, to avoid numbskull advertorialising so it strikes me as crazy that they weren't more clever about it at least. like agent franny, the mooncup millionairess.